Oxygen tubing

[Toci]

I had a conversation yesterday about the length of oxygen tubing and there was a difference of opinion about whether the tubing can be too long to be efficient. I know it has been discussed on here but I cannot find anything online to back the theory up. Can anyone help?

[stone-UK]

Hi

Once the tubing is charged, they should be little difference.

I believe it more a question of safety.

When I asked about my cylinder they recommend no more than 25 feet just as a matter of safety, in case I pulled the cylinder over.

Many people have mentioned up and down stairs.

[O2Trees]

When i was on O2 24/7 earlier in the year i was told 15 yards was the limit, not to do with safety but because after that length the pressure is insufficient. But Ive never read anything about this either.

You could try calling your oxygen company Toci.

[Toci in reply to O2Trees]

This is exactly what I was told. May I ask who told you?

[O2Trees in reply to Toci]

Late reply, been to london and back since writing that.

My respiratory nurse said it when i wanted enough tubing to go out into the garden. I don't have a written reference - I think the O2 powers that be think we'll be happy in one room so they don't generally think about the outer reaches. Must be written down somewhere though.

[dall05]

Hi Toci, I have accumulated 4 long hose's now. Each one I brought home after Holidays where concentrators were supplied with hoses that would reach to every area of the Cornish cottages we have stayed in.

They cant reuse them and just dispose of them so I bring them home. There has never been anything mentioned about the maximum length and mine will get me to the end of my garden with a seemingly normal oxygen supply.

One thing worth noting though is the hose which is plumed in around the house has little white joiners fitted in the line. One day when exercising I noticed very little oxygen was coming through to me even though the concentrator was turned to its max of 5 litres. Being a mechanic I went about diagnosing what was wrong and followed the line disconnecting it at each white joining connector until when I disconnected one of them there was strong pressure coming through at that point.

On inspection of the small white joiner I found it was a one way valve and for some reason it had failed and had stopped letting oxygen through, except for a very low pressure.

I simply replaced the valve for a straight joining pipe with no valve in it and full pressure returned to the nasal spec at the end.

I was quite proud of myself for detecting and fixing the fault. still got it I thought Ha Ha.

Since finding this another valve has failed with the same effect, very little oxygen getting to me at the end of the pipe but I found a few spare ones left behind by the oxygen company so I simply replaced the faulty valve for another to fix the problem.

I am due a concentrator service in the next couple of weeks and will discuss the faulty valves with the engineer and find out what their purpose is and why they have failed.

After all there could be quite a few people out there who are not getting the oxygen supply to the end of their hose that they require even though the concentrator is set correctly.

I will let you know what the engineer has to say on the matter.

Tony x

[Gsxrjez in reply to dall05]

The white inline valves are for fire safety. Should stop and flames going down through the tube and into the machine or tank.

[dall05 in reply to Gsxrjez]

Thanks Gsxr jez, I'll be able to test the engineer with that one when he comes to service the concentrator.

[dall05 in reply to Gsxrjez]

Well that was good timing the oxygen man has just been and serviced my concentrator. He passed the test and confirmed the white valves were flame traps and also told me that the max length of hose was 15 meters due to loss of flow over a longer tube.

He did however confuse things a little by saying you can have 15 meters going from the concentrator to a house fitted directional wall mounted switch followed by another 15 meters from that which then totals 30 meters?.

You have to question whether it is down to the trip factor or lack of flow.

Either way they have their rules and rules are rules .

This guy was excellent as he also exchanged 4 cylinders while he was here that I was about to order and gave me some spare white valves in case I had some more fail.

Tony

[Toci in reply to dall05]

My company will not allow customers to change or fit these valves as, if they are fitted the wrong way, they will not stop a fire. Do always make sure the arrows on them point to you, and not to the concentrator. x

[dall05 in reply to Toci]

Thanks Toci, no problem with that. If their fitted the wrong way around they don't pass the oxygen through at all being a one way valve. But if the oxygen supply starts getting weak then its worth looking at the valves seeing as I've had two fail.

My oxygen man was happy that I didn't have to call him out, he knows I'm a mechanic so trusts me to do minor repairs. x

[stone-UK]

Hi

Extract from a link proved by 'winded'on a previous post.

breathingbetterlivingwell.c...

14. How long can my oxygen tubing be at home before the oxygen reaching me becomes less effective?

HS: The length of the oxygen tubing should not affect the liter flow of oxygen being delivered. It just may take a little longer for the oxygen to get to you initially — like when it is first turned on — but once it is flowing, it should remain constant. Even though oxygen is a gas, we have to think of it in terms of being a liquid — if the pressure at the tank remains constant (which it does until the tank has less than 500 psi), the liter flow, 2 LPM (liters per minute), 3 LPM, etc. will remain constant. Think in terms of a garden hose — if the pressure/flow of water coming out of the faucet is constant, regardless of the length of the hose, the same amount of water will exit the other end. The only thing that may affect oxygen delivery is if there is an occlusion/obstruction in the tubing.

[Toci in reply to stone-UK]

I looked at this, Stone but HS is an entry level respiratory nurse, so no expert, and gives no basis for her statement, made in 2012.

[Gsxrjez in reply to stone-UK]

That's not right. I don't know the exact physics but the reason water will stay at the same pressure is due to the fact it cannot be compressed like air can (water is hydraulic but air is not).

[evermore]

Hi Toci, I think Stone has answered your question well. I just thought I would say that I have a huge amount of tubing that reaches all through my house but is not long enough to go into the garden. I asked the engineer about this and he said I wasn't supposed to use it in the garden. I imagine this is because it could get damaged/dirty out there. So I use my small concentrator on a trolley to go outside.

[stone-UK in reply to evermore]

Hi

There are few people been stopped at the back door, would be interesting to find reason why.

Trip hazard falling in to pond, hitting head on rockery, cutting supply pipe with shears, getting caught in mower blades? The list could be endless.

[Toci in reply to stone-UK]

Does not really make sense to me. Surely there is as much risk of tripping in the home? Or danger of cutting when vacuuming or veg chopping? My engineer has always been happy to cut whatever length I have asked for.

[Toci]

Thanks all. I have a VERY long tube and get to the bottom of the garden and out of the front gate, going where I want to but another oxygen user told me, very insistently, that 15 metres was the maximum safe length, especially as I use a high rate flow when moving around, and that more than that would reduce pressure and I would not get sufficient oxygen through the tubing. I knew I had seen this limit before on here and wondered if it was the rule of some oxygen companies but when I searched I could find nothing. Strange. I wonder where it has come from?

[Titchykath in reply to Toci]

15 Mcr is my limit, it goes upstairs into my bedroom, out to to the front and back gardens

[Titchykath in reply to Titchykath]

15 meters stupid predictive text !!

[Toci in reply to Titchykath]

I am just wondering WHY some are restricted to 15 metres and others are not?

[Toci]

Well, I have done a second search and find that it is Air Liquide that say anything longer than 15 metres MUST NEVER be used or there will be a drop in flow in all of their literature (their capitalisation). I also found Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease in Primary Care (E-book published May 2006. Author Margaret Barnett) from which I quote -

"Oxygen tubing of up to 15 metres can be attached to the machine, which enables the patient to move around the home to aid mobility if required. NEVER use tubing over 15 metres (approximately 50 feet) long as this will reduce the flow."

Surprising then that no other company warns of the same danger.

[Billiejean_2]

Hi Toci, in one of the threads I read yesterday, there was a link with expert answers on all aspects of 02 therapy. There is a question and answer about length of tubing and it basically said that once the 02 arrives in your canula, that the length of tubing does not affect the quality or the efficacy of the oxygen. They likened it to a hosepipe taking a little while to fill up but the supply of water is steady and constant after that. The thread was from about two days ago a d was called 'I need Oxygen'. The link is towards the end. Hope it helps.

[Toci]

I found the post. No disrespect Billiejean_2, but the link is to a blog containing a paragraph written in 2012, giving the opinion of Helen Sorenson, a respiratory therapist, on a site run by Edison Nation Medical, a 'marketplace helping inventors and small businesses bring their medical inventions to life', and is not what I would class as the view of an expert.

[Billiejean_2 in reply to Toci]

No offence taken, I must go back and check the link I read, maybe I referred you to the wrong one. The one I read was long, very comprehensive and seemed very professional to me. Actually I think Stone quoted from it in one of his replies. Sorry for sending you on a wildgoose chase, I should have been more precise.

[Toci in reply to Billiejean_2]

Yes, it is the same one as Stone highlighted. We need to learn to be careful though because anyone can start a blog and say what they like and some companies start blogs just to promote their stock and up their sales, so I always look at the source of the material: which company runs the site, who wrote it, what are their qualification, do they back up their statements by referring to any research papers, etc. For example, a pharmaceutical company will run a blog where a 'nurse' gives advice and pushes their drugs, or a vitamin manufacturer will have 'experts' comment on how vital certain vitamin supplements are. Some blogs are just ordinary joes who Google then put all their findings together as an 'expert' article. I started out hitting Google and reading everything. Then I learned to filter the results. Skeptical? Me?

[Billiejean_2]

Skeptical -? Moi aussi i take your point completely and obviously, I read the link without checking it's source.

But I must say, it's not what I would normally regard as a blog -ie., either someone's personal story/ take on things or someone with an agenda to push and money to make. I read the whole thing and the info given was the same as I'd been previously told, very accurate, concise and reader friendly. And nowhere was I asked to buy a book or miracle cure supplements. So on that basis, I wouldn't dismiss it as just a paragraph from a blog.

Anyhow, I see you got the information you needed so that's good. I'll switch my skeptical radar up a notch

[Toci in reply to Billiejean_2]

I probably said blog when I meant something completely different, lol. So much for me giving advice.

[Gsxrjez]

It would lower the flow rate after a certain length. I don't know the exact physics about this though but I do know if I have my mask on the long hose it makes a certain sound compared to a lowder sound if I put it straight on the cylinder.

[Pedros]

When I have my concentrator serviced, the engineer checks the O2 output at the cannula end with a meter that measures the output - so no problem with my fairly long cabling .

Peter

[Toci]

Oh dear, it does not get any clearer, my engineer has just been and said neither Baywater Health nor Air Products (he has been in the business for 15 years) have any limit and that he does not know any of his customers who only have 15 metres. And, like Pedros mentions above, he tested the output and it was fine.