Hi all , Just wondering if anyone else has been in the same position and if so what they did . I have been in job now for five years, they knew I had asthma when I started and it can have very badly behaved periods , like recently when i had to take two rescue packs of prednisolone 5mg for 5 days within two weeks of each other .Work do not take it very seriously they say can you start your rescue pack and come in even if i am feeling really ill and struggling , they think it is an instant cure .
This weekend I was put to work with someone who had been asked to come in with a nasty chest infection , they were pretty poorly I really felt for them as they are also a good friend and they were worried I would catch it as they had caught it off a family member .Work's answer is wear a mask , the normal blue ones .I couldn't because i felt my asthma was starting , the usual signs ,pf drop etc .So my friend wore a mask , well now have a nasty chest infection , Gp can't prove it but reckons highly likely I caught it at work because masks are not full proof and we worked closely together , sure work will disagree as they believe masks are full proof , I got sent into people with covid just told wear a mask and visor you will be safe and in covid i was on extremely vulnerable list and had to shield .Myself and a person i worked with had it twice both same time so i really think masks are not full proof .
The thing is each asthma attack is getting put on my Bradford score and I get pulled in for a attendance review , think on number 6 now cause it keeps triggering a review , because I had a couple of separate incidence of sickness , I also get chronic migraine under a neurologist and osteoarthritis in both knees and a torn meniscus ,I had just one occasion off in 5 yrs ,waiting for injection to start with that also pushes my score high .This starting to really get me down now , with the cost of living it is not an option not to work but I feel like I am being punished and like a burden to the company because of the questions they ask you is do you realise the impact your sickness has on the company. They just do not take it seriously , I used to go into a person who smoked and lit up right next to me one day and I had full blown asthma attack , i had to fight my to be taken out because they did not see the problem as long as they did not smoke in front me .
Sorry that turned into a full on rant , but just wish asthma was taken more seriously , my husband still smokes even though that one my biggest triggers because he feels as long I am not in the room it is fine .
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Jazz70
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Hi Jazz. I’m not certain about this but I am fairly sure asthma is covered by disability legislation. There is someone on here who knows about it, I just can’t remember who it is. Whoever it is is a regular poster so hopefully they will be along later.
Oh wow, I'm sorry to hear this. Your work sounds awful, and without being an expert it does sound like they're probably falling foul of some workplace laws and disability legislation. I don't think they are legally allowed to put you in danger at work or penalise you for a disability, but I don't know the exact details.
Not sure what you can do about your husband, if he refuses to listen to you when you tell him smoking in the house affects you. But there should be something you can do about the dodgy practices at work. Poobah is the one who knows about this I think - would welcome your advice here Poobah when you have a moment!
With your level of sickness you would definitely be covered by the Equality Act. One area this would help with is having more time off sick before being called into formal meetings about sickness record.
Have you occupational health at your work place? If so you should ask for a referral to speak to them. Even if not you should definitely ask for a risk assessment at work. This would be between yourself, your manager and sometimes HR or occupational health. This would be a formal document that outlines what you can do and what circumstances. For example if unwell and trying to work you don’t see clients. Or if a client clearly is unwell then the appointment has to be rescheduled and so on. Do you require specialised seating at work due to osteoarthritis? I have to confess when I was working I pretty much wrote my own risk assessment and then asked manager to agree. The key point is the risk assessment is about YOU. It’s not your problem to solve work place practices and still keep yourself safe. It’s down to management. Very basically you think what the problem is and then a solution.
Thank you Bevvy , it really has .I said to my manager i would be covered by the act , they disagreed funny enough because they did not think asthma would come under it so keep putting it on my Bradford Score and I get the meetings that make me feel like crap .I asked to be taken out of a call with a lot of Kneeling , their response they could not take me out totally just the am call as it would impact on work rota's so I still have to kneel and I now have a bakers cyst from it . I have actually emailed my one manager today to say I wish to be referred to Occupational Health it has been passed onto senior management .I do work late and often get home after 10pm then have to be up the next day at 6am to be at work for 7am .And to get my weekend off I have to work either 8 or 9 days straight through .The hrs are grinding me down slowly .It was horrible at my last attendance review I actually got asked could I cope with the job because I dropped from full time to part time and no longer doing splits shifts .There were veiled threats of further action and if I ever decided to leave all these attendance reviews would follow me around and stop me getting another job in care
See my full response below. Unfortunately, your manager is wholly ignorant as to their role in this and it certainly ISN'T deciding whether or not you're covered by the Equality Act. Makes me wonder what other legal responsibilities they're ignorant of.
It gets better ,not long had an email saying quote I hope you are feeling better , only saw gp and started antibiotics this morning and please make yourself available for your return to work so you can start work Monday afternoon .Bit of presumption that , I will return when I feel I am better , may well feel better by Monday but that is what I am up against , no comprehension of asthma .
Sorry to hear this. I had similar at work my manger would not listen to me. I went to my union who were very good. I eventually got a written warning from him so the union took to senior management. I was also told I could take it to disability law as it covers asthma. Written warning was dropped and manger was more acceptable to my asthma.
I am so sorry to hear about your suffering with asthma and not receiving the right support at work. Similar situation but just got sacked 4 months into my 6 months probation for being off with asthma (got asthma attack at work from a plug in air freshener!) so looking for a new job and stressing already how to tell my future employer as it could go against me. As for smoking, that is my worst trigger and the smoke from vaping is even worse than cigarettes so your company should never force you to see a client that smokes as it puts your life in danger. Your husband should read up on 2nd hand smoking, even if he’s not in the same room as you when he smokes, it still lingers in the air and on his clothes and I start coughing whenever someone just finished smoking is near me. I hope you can work it out with your husband and if your employer refuses to acknowledge your asthma, I would look for another job as you only have one health and need to put yourself first.
I am so sorry you got sacked . Plug in’s do the exact same to me , I cannot be in the same room .Also the Reed diffusers , had an asthma attack at work because I walked in a house where the smell was overwhelming. I can tell when my husband has been smoking inside I can smell it but he flatly denies it , but I can smell soon I walk in in . Thank you ,yes my sister said the same look for a new job .
The Equality Act 2010 is what you can refer to as it is classed as a disability and they cant hold it against you. With reference to them saying about the impact your sickness has to the company, mention about them contributing to it by putting you to clients that are smoking etc with you there. Do they have an occupational health company they use, they should be referring you to this as they can then tell the company what they should and should not be doing. The masks are not fullproof and if they think they are shows how uneducated they are. The only fullproof is being face fitted for an FFP 3 mask or a hood. The disadvantage you will have is that they can make changes to your possible work, but if things at home dont change and thats triggering it/ contributing to it thats outwith their control and impacting your work.
Hi Jazz, sorry to hear about your situation. I have been in a similar situation myself in the past. If any of your health problems have a significant effect on a day to day basis, it can be classed as a disability. Any disability related absences should not be added to your Bradford score and they should not discipline you based on disability related absence, but they can assess your capability for your job role. However, in order not to breach the equality act this needs to be done correctly and thoroughly to avoid them facing a tribunal should things go up I the air - they would need to show that they have attained medical evidence from a health professional and fully explored any reasonable adjustments, alternative job roles, working hours etc fully, as well as evidence of minuted meetings with you to discuss all this, all of which they would need to prove if there were to be any formal dispute against them.
Have you declared all of your health issues that have a profound effect on your day to day life? Employers need to to take any disabilities and chronic health conditions into account and make reasonable adjustments where practical and appropriate.
I'd request an occupational health referral where a health professional can make suggestions as to what reasonable adjustments are appropriate as a starting point. Everything - requests you make, declarations of chronic health conditions, disabilities etc and how you are affected...... in writing to cover yourself should there be any formal dispute.
I am not an employment lawyer, but I have received thorough and sturdy professional legal advice previously myself. Unfortunately for me, I became very poorly due to covid and have never fully recovered - I was eventually dismissed on capability grounds after six months of meetings, processes etc, but my situation was quite extreme and I am unlikely to ever be able to reliably work again as both my COPD and chronic allergic asthma, and other health issues have now become severe and will only progress.
I suggest you also get in contact with both ACAS and the equality commission who can both give you legal advice and guidance on relevant legislation.
Thank you lovely , that is brilliant, yes declared them all .Sadly care is the worst job to work in and be ill .Done it for a very long time and love it but if you are ill you are told to crack on otherwise it puts pressure on the rest of team .I know I just need to stop working up to 10 days straight though and not finish and then get less than 8 hrs break between a new run .I have got completely run down because I was concerned about my score so pushed myself in last two times my asthma flared x
Cracker’s isn’t it , they are adamant mask on you are perfectly safe .I feel so ill today and I am angry as well that I was put in a position that I caught it.I had a night out tomorrow which I had been looking forward to now I can’t go because I know I no where near well enough .My sister said to self cert for a week to take care myself so I have , that has gone down like a lead balloon .I also said that I wanted Occupational health at next review meeting as putting it on my Bradford score is putting me at a disadvantage because of my health condition under 2010 act , which is discrimination , nice that didn’t go down well , I get the feeling they think I am talking rubbish .
I am so tired of being told to take my rescue pack and go in .I actually got told off once for missing training to go to gp because I actually could not get my breathe and needed steroids and got signed off .Asthma is already hard enough to cope with.Gp wanted me to have a review asap with is booked in and I am actually under a consultant for it yet they have no problem telling me to go in when I can’t speak with or breathe properly.
I worked in care myself many years ago, and agree that it's one of the worst jobs to work in. If you are not well enough to work, self certify and get a fit note from the doctor if you're still not well enough on the 8th day. I appreciate that your employers will try and push you to go into work when you're not well enough, and that it puts pressure on getting cover from other carers but that is not your problem - if you're not well with a disability related illness then you're not well. Keep records of everything that goes to and fro and request minuted meetings and that they give you a copy of the minutes.
As long as your disabilities are documented with your employer, they cannot discriminate. Hopefully you'll get your review soonest but in the meantime, get some advice. The equality commission are really good at advising you with the legal aspects, and if you tell them the problems you are having at work they will provide you with the relevant legislation and might also be able to guide you in how to present this to your employers.
Over and above, as long as there is written evidence where you have had meetings to try and resolve your issues, the law is on your side. Currently, going by what you have mentioned already, there is a case simply for disability related harassment, in that they are putting unreasonable pressure on you and not working with you to reasonably explore ways that would enable you to do your job easier.
Thank you so much , it really is and I really love the people I work with and the people we support but I can’t keep doing this to myself.This has to have been going on for at least the last 3 yrs because I had shield during Covid so I must be on attendance review number 7 and my BF score is high . My last attendance review I got told do not go off in the next 3 mths until the 26 wks are up or else it becomes more serious .
It is demoralising and I have definitely gone in too unwell so I decided no more .
Disability related absence does not count towards usual absence procedures and neither does shielding. Sounds like they're not up to date with the law. If they use any of this against you in terms of usual absence procedures and get rid of you , get them to a tribunal. Disability related absence requires a different process and employers have to be very, very careful that they get it right.
Thank you , the shielding did not go on my bf score but if I got covid now it would .They are so sure they are correct that at one review they actually said they did not consider my asthma ongoing , well I have had it over 15 yrs so not sure how they work that out .
The first thing I would recommend is to request an urgent Occupational Health review by a qualified practitioner. As you're covered by the Equality Act 2010, your disability has to be considered in all decisions around attendance and how you do your job. HR should arrange this. If the employer doesn't have access to Occupational Health, then contact Access yto Work, a free scheme provided by the government.
The Occupational Health practitioner will assess your health and workplace, specifically your asthma and other conditions, and make written recommendations to your employer to make reasonable adjustments. These can range from a more fluid attendance system to accommodate your asthma, protection from unsafe workplace practices (asking you to work with colleagues with infectious diseases), working from home etc. They will also point out that you're likely to be covered by the Equality Act, putting the employer on notice that they can't ignore your well-being in relation to your asthma and the associated vulnerabilities.
Everyone is different, so prepare for your Occupational Health review by jotting down how your asthma affects you and how past decisions by your employer have exposed you to unnecessary risk. Estimate additional time off you're likely to have, and estimate time off for doctor appointments. Attendance must be fluid and your employer can't expect someone affected by severe asthma to have the same attendance as a healthy person. This won't negate attendance chats and reviews, but they should not be punitive or unreasonable.
If you're a member of a union, engage your representative in the process.
Happy to field questions if you don't have workplace representation.
Poobah , you are absolutely amazing , thank you for taking time to help me .I feel much more prepared now ready for next attendance review which will be when I go back .I have one question if you don’t mind , one that applies really to everyone , not just me .But we have a basic rate of pay and if you do not go off sick then you get a bonus payment per hour which makes a big difference to your wages .Each time I am off I lose this , couple of times it was non disability like bug you catch but it feels like a punishment when you lose it because you dare to have asthma .
Really struggle recently and it no fun wheezing and not being able to sleep and knowing I should not have been put in that position . I was really concerned about my friend she was so poorly I even passed on my concerns but was ignored .It is an absolute case of man up and stop being a baby or in my case a burden .When I asked change my hours I was told they would not be able to facilitate what I wanted because of the rota .
It can be discriminatory to withhold attendance related pay from someone who is deemed disabled if the disqualifying absence relates to the disability, directly or indirectly.This is an issue that the Occupational Health practitioner should address and give the employer recommendations to address the discriminatory system. But you'll need to raise it during the review and say you want the matter specifically addressed, along with other issues that you find unfair.
Thank you Poobah you have given me so much excellent information to go with .I have asked for Occupational Health at next meeting . Not sure if they will be because manager had kept saying she would check with HR about equality act but never has . I will keep you updated , thank you so much for your help .
I should add, follow up every oral request with a written request (email), requesting to be included in HR correspondence about your case too. And follow up with HR yourself if you think your manager isn't progressing things to your satisfaction. Any meeting that you have about your health and attendance should be minuted and the minutes agreed between you and your manager. At least keep your own records.
Keeping a digital trail helps with record keeping, putting things on a formal basis, exposes the manager/employer to their duty of care and legislation. No one is then in any doubt about timelines, requests and delivery of their duty of care (or failure to do so).
Thank you so much .I have never had any minutes from any of my attendance reviews and my registered manager is now getting my manager and another manager to do the next review and I know for a fact it has not been brought to HR attention even though I have been asking for 2 yrs and the two managers have never held an attendance review before and admitted they don’t know how too so bear with them .
Be polite, but bold and say at the start of the review that you're taking minutes as a record should be kept. I would definitely highlight back to these managers at the end of the meeting what you've asked them to do, in terms of ensuring your request for an urgent Occupational Health review is processed through HR and to let you know that that's been done and with whom they spoke, just so you can keep your records up to date.
If they don't get back to you after 3 working days, check with HR. You can explain what you've requested via the managers and need to know what's happening. Again, keep a note of who you spoke to and when and confirm your discussion afterwards by email. HR should be proactive from the moment you bring this to their attention.
It sounds like overkill, but records don't have to be too detailed, just brief and to the point, including names, dates, times and what actions were agreed and who is responsible for the action points.
Thank you 😊I will , I really love the team and my job but their not taking my asthma seriously means I am really not well now . I will have everything ready to take in with me .
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