This is an update on a post I made here about 2 months ago. Back then, I started noticing wood smoke which correlated with my asthma symptoms -- during cold evenings. I was puzzled that I never saw any warnings or corresponding increased/alarming numbers for PM2.5 pollution on the DEFRA official web site. I.e. according to DEFRA essentially the entire UK looks "green" almost all the time in winter. My own PM2.5 measurements, in contrast, often showed increases of 2-3x over WHO levels, and this correlated with increased PM2.5 measured by a colleague in a similar neighborhood 10 miles from me. I wrote to DEFRA twice, no response. I filter my air indoors, both at work and at home. Since I am mostly fine thanks to this, I gave up on chasing this puzzle up.
Today I saw an article in the Guradian citing research from Imperial which may explain the discrepancy between my numbers/symptoms and the DEFRA data. They say that DEFRA does not monitor particles in residential areas, and instead focuses on particle measurements on the motorways. I.e. air pollution due to burnt firewood is not something they aim to measure.
You are quite the sleuth! Unsurprising as usual. I know smoke gives me asthma, most do. Govt. were talking about banning wood burners re pollution and effects on health. Since energy crisis that went quiet. Many people view it as cheap alternative to gas heating so use is increasing, so are lung problems, duh! But if they don’t have them they don’t care. 🤨
>>>Govt. were talking about banning wood burners re pollution and effects on health.
Interesting, when was this? I think people (those who do not have asthma/lung disease) generally view such measures this as an "over-reach" in the government policy. The govt would be expected to subsidize the costs of gas which has not really happened. With banned smoking, at least, the govt was not expected to subside vaping as an alternative
A quick search for "wood stove filter" identified this device which claims 75% efficiency. Better than nothing. I wonder if one can install two of them in series >>> should be 93.75% efficient -- if given away for free (each costs 2k!!!!). Anyway, I would never use a wood stove.
Before energy crisis. Wood burners would be fine if they left the smoke in the house not send it out into the air we all have to breathe! Saying mine not too smoky multiplied by a squillion with the same attitude brings back the smog of old when we only had coal fires.
Maybe when they get lung problems they’ll get it, too late for the rest of us though. If it costs £2k + to set up why not spend that on cleaner nrg?stop poisoning the rest of us and polluting the planet?? 😮💨😷🤷♀️
>>>Maybe when they get lung problems they’ll get it
I think themselves will be the last they will blame. Plus, in most cases the problems take years/decades to develop for most people, it's not a clear-cut cause-and-effect (at least in their minds). Smokers generally take decades to develop serious issues, and they inhale smoke on a daily basis... My mother was a smoker for 50 years, and she died of unrelated (or at least not directly related) issues.
Did you see this Guardian piece also, about the threat of £300 fines for flouting regulations. It won’t be enforced of course. I can sniff a wood burner a mile away, it has a terrible effect on me, but as fraid says, people who can breathe easily don’t give a monkey’s. It seems to be the latest middle class trend where I live. It’s not the price of gas, because this is a prosperous area!
"English councils have issued only 17 fines over six years, despite more than 18,000 complaints, as it is difficult and expensive to prove guilt and then take people to court."
I know! I read it in The Times first (but that’s got a paywall) and the “Comments” section was full of healthy people complaining about the nanny state, over-regulation blah blah blah. I bet The Telegraph’s readers were even worse 😊
If you think wood smoke is bad, you have never encountered smokeless coal ovoids smoke. My lungs seize up and my chest is in pain for days. Apparently the fuel is more cost effective and "smokeless" than wood. The evil ovoids are promoted as better due to it being "smokeless" although the tiny particles are more damaging (just Google fly ash) and the ash is damaging to the environment to dispose of.
I have problems in the warmer weather when people light up their fire pits etc outside. The smoke is at ground level and I have to close all windows and doors.
As I have said on here before, DRAX power station is the largest WOOD burning power station in Europe and the other coal fired power stations being converted to WOOD burning ,so wherever you live in this country you will not be able to escape the pollution.
I'm not sure it's a case of people not caring - if you had a choice between taking an action that would cause suffering to your own family but make life better for others OR keep your own family safe and well but make life worse for others, I suspect most of us would look after our own loved ones first. People who are using woodburners as their primary (or only) source of heating are not usually trying to save costs so that they can jet off abroad on a luxury holiday - they're trying to save costs so they can put food on the table while living in a warm home. I'm not affected by woodburners, but cold and damp leave me fighting for breath, and if I couldn't afford to heat my home other than by a woodburner, I'm pretty sure I'd be using it, because it would be a choice between either definitely causing me to struggle to breathe or possibly causing a problem for someone walking past outside.
As for banning woodburners and open fires, there are still a number of people who have no other means of heating. Since these people are usually those on the lowest incomes, it would only be possible to ban woodburners if there were grants available to cover 100% of the cost of installing alternative heating.
Yes, it's frustrating to have someone else's behaviour triggering your own asthma, but that's life. There are so many triggers that it would be impossible to eliminate them all, and even trying to do so would mean imposing draconian limitations on everyone. All we can do is to minimise our contact with those things that cause us the most problems.
The article states “research for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has shown that wood-burners are increasingly a middle-class purchase, with almost half bought by people in the upper AB social grades. About four in 10 households with indoor burners owned their home outright, and fewer than one in 12 were renters, compared with households without burners of whom about a quarter were from AB social grades and more than a third rented.” Where I live it certainly is more of a lifestyle choice.
I accept this doesn’t apply to less affluent areas, but even there the current regulations should surely be enforced. At present, many wood burners are ancient stoves which chuck these particulates into the atmosphere willy nilly, contaminating it for everyone else. This is illegal, for good reason
I agree that for many people it is a lifestyle choice, but I do feel uncomfortable with some of the comments on this thread because a) they assume it's a lifestyle choice for everyone and it isn't always and b) there is a nasty gloating attitude of 'just wait until they get lung problems, then they'll be sorry'. I wouldn't wish lung trouble on anyone. And it's not like all these woodburner owners are sitting indoors rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of the suffering they're inflicting on others - they probably don't even realise it's an issue.
We all do things that create health issues for others without even realising it - my biggest trigger is the alcohol sanitisers that are so prevalent since Covid - I wonder how many people who are getting so indignant over woodburners have used a hand sanitiser in public? I'm all in favour of campaigning for better air quality - but we can still do it in a way that is kind to others.
While I feel a bit like you about people who cannot afford anything else, it is also important to realise the woodburners is a really important issues, not only for those who actually react. I saw a figure the other day that of overall outdoor air pollution in London, 30% comes from woodturners. The figure was in one of the raft of woddburner articles the Guardian has printed just a few days ago. Pollution from traffic is bad enough, but now woodburners really add to it, causing polluted atmosphere for everyone, not just those, including me, who reacts on them. Most of those in London is thought to be produced in affluent areas. If we care about pollution from traffic, it makes sense to care abaout this as well. And, yes, people who are struggling absolutely do need help to resolve it.
The issue is that people generally cannot think in probabilities, and if the causality between events takes years to develop (wood burning >>> lung disease), they chose the short-term benefit (staying cozy and not having to invest into insulating the house). The fact that roughly 50% of us do not trust experts anymore (vaccine safety, covid measured etc) does not help, either.
>>> if you had a choice between taking an action that would cause suffering to your own family but make life better for others OR keep your own family safe.
I do not think it's a binary choice, but if it was my choice, I would insulate my house to make my family safe. The smoke emitted by everyone affects everyone equally badly.
Someone who is sufficiently wealthy to own their own home and have the money to insulate it properly probably does not need to depend on a woodburner or open fire for heating in the first place.
I rent my apartment, I do not own it, and I do not have a wood stove. I.e. I am not sufficiently wealthy to own a place that has a woodstove/chimney. I insulate it with additional 50mm thick polystyrene sheets that cost about £1 per square meter, and it's only the outside walls that need to be insulated.
It's great that your landlord gives you permission to insulate. Unfortunately, that's not an option for everyone. And in some areas, I think it would still be too cold to go without any heating, however well insulated the house was anyway. But I'm pleased you have an understanding landlord - it makes such a difference.
Well, I do not ask for his opinion, actually :). As long as the changes are reversible and I leave the apartment in the same state as I came in, it's fine.
Which would mean we all have to stay indoors, windows closed. Not ideal. Fact - smoke damages lungs. And we all have them. Perhaps your wood burner does not affect you as you’re indoors but your smoke does affect those that have to breathe the air you send your smoke into? Yes we need a better solution, who’s got one? 🤔
hello I googled to see if woodburners are going to be banned by the gov. Surprisingly no it’s not banning wood burners what is states is the banning of wet wood burning, if using a wood burner you must only use kiln dry wood. Think this produces less smoke, I do t have a wood burner as it affects my breathing but would imagine kiln dry wood will cost more.
I am sure dry wood produces less smoke that wet wood, but, regardless, any kind of wood (wood or dry) is orders of magnitude more harmful than gas and electric heating.
Problem is once your smoke is in the air anyone in the neighbourhood has to breath it in so it’s not you that’s copping it in you’re inside. I agree with you that everyone’s priority is themselves these days. Also dreadful are fire pits etc in the summer when you want to sit out or even open the windows plus smoky washing.
hi I do agree with you polluting the air we breathe is bad for us and the planet. I struggle in summer with people burning garden waste and barbecues last year I had windows open and my neighbours had decided to have a barbecue my bedrooms and lounge smells of smoke and chemicals it was so strong I thought I was going to suffocate I had to close all windows and switch on all of my hepa air filters to get rid of the smoke. I suffered with my lungs the rest of the day.
I suffer year round problematic asthma like many others here, i would like to point out where i live we have no mains gas when we 1st moved into this property 29 years ago it was only coal fire and i suffered terribly but this was just before i was diagnosed with asthma unfortunately there’s no way gas is going to be brought into this village ever so we now have a log burner and i do realise it’s not ideal but how else are we supposed to keep warm ( yes we do have oil heating which is extortionate ) what I’m trying to say is i for one certainly understand the issues with coal fires, log burners, however, for some there is no other form of heating and there’s no other option my poor hubby has to watch me struggle to breathe especially when we 1st light the log burner in winter until i get my asthma under control again and yes to the point of hoping to move back into a town with amenities
I do not own a home, but if I had to I would first focus on knowing what's available in terms of the amenities (i.e. gas, geothermal), on insulating it properly (2-3 pane windows, no wall-to-wall windows) and going for the smallest sq m practical.
when we 1st moved in 29 years ago we presumed our coal fire would be replaced with gas coming into the village as promised and it hasn’t happened as i mentioned earlier they will never bring gas into our village so replaced the coal fire with oil heating but that’s extortionate and had to give in by getting a log burner no other way of heating the home properly to the point that we’re considering moving home
I moved out of a village which had gas fires but the majority of houses chose to have wood burners I was in and out of hospital with asthma attacks struggling to breathe because air quality was so bad and now so many years down the line it is happening where I live now this was a clean air zone no idea why everyone is getting wood burners installed the air is thick with acrid smoke you can’t hang the washing out as the smoke makes everything stink of smoke.
Smoke of all sorts triggers my asthma, all year round. We have air purifiers going indoors and windows shut. I used to have the windows open slightly all year round, particularly in our bedrooms. This helped all the asthma (3 asthmatic children too,) and kept condensation/damp/mould at bay.
Two neighbours have had wood burners installed over the last couple of years- can't even go outside when we want to, if their chimneys are chuffing.
Gah! It is like the old days when smoking wasn't restricted. Trapped in our house again, socially isolated, again.
>>>We have air purifiers going indoors and windows shut.
I have air purifiers that filter the air incoming from the outside, rather than circulating the stale air sealed inside. This way there is ventilation and purification. For the smoke smell, I also use charcoal filters, helps big time. Otherwise it smells like weed all the time
I totally sympathise with you it’s dreadful I have had to buy dehumidifiers for condensation because I cannot open my windows due to air pollution caused by wood burners.
Air pollution monitoring in UK is focused mainly on traffic, as that is the main source, and focus of air pollution control measures (e.g. LEZ and ULEZ in London). There are different types of monitoring stations though, depending on where they are situated - urban background ones will pick up high signals from domestic wood burning or other non-traffic related sources, such as the huge signal picked up on/around 5th Nov. On an individual level, if you don't live near a busy road, but live next to someone regularly using a woodburner then the emissions from that may well have a bigger impact on you, but on average it is traffic that has the biggest impact.
>>>but on average it is traffic that has the biggest impact.
The Guardian article I mentioned in the original post and the research paper it cites argues that wood burning is in fact as impactful as traffic, particularly during years in which folks' gas utility costs went up 4-fold, causing s a major shift to wood burning.
It is a real problem for me and I live in a rural area surrounded by fields and hedges. But it is hamlet of about twenty houses. A few years ago several neighbours installed wood burning stoves and it exacerbates my asthma straight away and on days when there is little wind it doesn't disappate. I was astounded to discover that the stoves didn't need to have filters etc. The government are bringing in new rules but they will apply to town as they say "It is unlikely to be a problem in rural areas." They wait until there is a major problem. Same with diesel cars, which were known polutants. The govmt should employ us to nose out the issues first - would save the NHS a lot of money!
we have been seriously considering moving to somewhere more rural. Currently we are close to motorway/ power station/ air port/ city traffic. I grew up in the countryside, asthma was better but hay fever was worse.
I think I need my own island. Someone should start an asthma retreat- where there was minimal traffic, no animals, no smoke, no perfumes, no sprays in the air, proper cleaning etc. I would do it if I had any money.
Out of curiosity, I checked how much these filters cost, and they are at least £2K per stove. No wonder nobody bothers to install them LOL. Unless the govt pays for it. But they won't anyway, b.c. of the "nanny state" etc argument.
I live on the outskirts of a market town I moved from a lovely village because of the wood burning smoke pollution affecting my lungs . When I moved here it was a clean air zone over the 15 years this has changed as more and more wood burners are cropping up around me in winter the night air is thick with acrid smoke there is no way you can leave a window open sometimes I can smell the smoke in my lounge depending which way the wind blows it comes down my chimney into my room I too use air purifiers in most rooms as I have chronic asthma and copd. Nothing seems to be done about the poor air quality here caused by wood burners.
hi I read the gov is not banning wood burners they are banning use of wet wood the wood has to be kiln dry to be used in a wood burner. How many people will do this? Not many they will burn whatever rubbish they have to hand. Not only does it pollute the air we breathe but it also damages the ozone .
And there lies the problem, who is going to monitor, and how could they, how damp your logs are?! Most of us moved to the countryside/ sea for fresh air, now so polluted by log burners/ fire pits etc. If you want to poison the air in these places, why did you move here? Maybe move back to the city or appreciate at least the fresh air we used to have and you were used to, stop spoiling it.🤷♀️
Another thing that annoys me is people burning garden waste- there are free recycling centres, get a bin from council, but too much trouble or expense for some or who just like the smell of smoke? Stop killing us slowly( later on yourselves and children with your pollution of the planet?) 🤷♀️
Is that £40 a year? We often take others garden waste when take a run to the recycle centre, may as well take full load in car, so perhaps you could arrange that. Pay them in chocolate, that’s how I pay my friend who helps me, she won’t accept money!
yes a year if you need another bin then you have to pay extra I don’t think anyone here would be prepared to do that and the ones that burn their rubbish do it at night or the week end when you cannot call out anyone to investigate the pollution to the air quality
Yes, the environment agency said they wish they would be banned as people complain all the time but by the time they get there there’s no evidence or it happens out of hours. They know how to get round the rules. If they were banned people would have to be more responsible. 🙄
Well if you take pix or vid and send to Environmental Health they must investigate. They need evidence and witnesses that it’s damaging to peoples health. If you can get similar minded people to complain too, or even send to local paper that would help curb it. 🤞
No. It’s undisputed that smoke harms our health. They just need evidence of causation, where, when etc, so do take pix and report or it will never change if we don’t speak up!👍
Thank you, all, for the comments! I wrote to the author of the paper, got no response. Although, not sure what kind of response I expected LOL.
Maybe we should start a petition on woodstove regulation on change.org. Not sure how this could be enforced though -- other than slowly phasing out woodstoves in new buildings unless they have a filter pre-installed. Or some kind of social campaign that wood-burning is not cool or whatever. Like it happened with smoking (in some countries). The idea of neighbors reporting on each other for smoke sounds 1984-esque to me. I guess this is why I just carry a respirator on me at all times.
We asked a neighbour politely to stop burning garden waste when there is a recycle centre minutes away, they were all able bodied, had three cars and a small trailer. Explained it was ruining us sitting out, opening windows, my asthma etc and they couldn’t care less! Luckily they moved out! 🙄
Apologies for reigniting (no pun intended) a rather old thread. In our city we have a smoke control area of which which I live just outside (even though it's built up). Our council are refusing to expand the area to include all of the city. It even seems chimney sweeps are in favour of doing this! - purplesweep.co.uk/f/brighto...
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Anyone been anywhere on holiday that has really helped your asthma?
Coughing again ...
Shielding confusion...
