Thunderstorm Warning!

My Dad just sent me the following link:

** Asthma warning over thunderstorms **

People with asthma have been warned to keep their medications with them at all times this week because of the threat of summer thunderstorms.

< news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1... >

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Absolutly and standing out on the patio during the storm is not reocmmended either. I love thunder storms the eletricity in the air and the beautiful lightening, in the total peace of the night at 3am was just too bigger pull for me. Note to self next time to watch from behind the glass.

Bex

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The Role of Fungal Spores in Thunderstorm Asthma

Here's the science bit (as he slips on his Prof. Heinz Wolf wig)

The daily number of emergency department visits for asthma ranged from 0 to 36/d, with an average rate of 8.6 on days without thunderstorms and 10 on days with thunderstorms, representing a 15% increase. The concentrations of fungal spores almost doubled during thunderstorms, due to large increases in Cladosporium and ascomycetes. Total fungal spores increased from 1,512 to 2,749/m3, ascospores from 263 to 492/m3, and Cladosporium from 1,259 to 2,419/m3. Air pollutants were higher during days with thunderstorms compared to days without.

To determine if these fungal spores could influence asthma visits, we tested the association between changes in daily concentrations of aeroallergens and changes in the daily numbers of emergency visits, employing a daily time-series analysis over the 6 years of observation irrespective of thunderstorms. Emergency department visits displayed seasonal effects and day-of-the-week cycles. Relative humidity alone recorded on the day of the visit was sufficient to explain any weather-related day-to-day variations in emergency department visits for asthma.

A relative 67% increase above the mean relative humidity was associated with a 13% relative increase in hospital admissions above the seasonal mean.

In contrast to our findings for fungal spores, we were unable to detect an association between emergency asthma visits and weeds, grasses, or trees. The aeroallergen effect was only slightly attenuated by co-adjustment for ozone but did not appear to be sensitive to co-adjustment to the other pollutants (NO2,SO2, coefficient of haze, and SO4).

In summary, air pollutants were higher during thunderstorm days than days without thunderstorms, but the daily time-series analysis detected no statistically significant effect of these pollutants on asthma, whereas there was a significant effect of fungal spores.

Thus, of all the climate and air quality changes observed during thunderstorms, only fungal spores could be shown to influence asthma hospital admissions.

medscape.com/viewarticle/45...

Take care,

Derek

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Thanks for the info guys and gals!

I've had huge problems with SOB during the last twenty four hours. Thought it was because I've just finished taking pred, -but don't usually get such a rapid return of uncontrollable symptoms as quickly as this. It's been all thunder, lightning and almost flooding where I work and live.

So I'm staying inside with windows shut despite the fact that I too love thunderstorms Bex!

Take care everyone!

Mia

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Am struggling with the heat as just trying to get over a really bad do and trip to costa and now this! really suffered last nite with the change in weather, and also coz me and TKS said to much and went to see the omen!! the later not advisorble with bad chests!!!!!

Anyway not looking forwaerd to these storms last time had bad one put me in itu!!! so as you can imaginge am a bit wary!! and it doesnt help that 99% of chest docs in aberdeen for BTS meeting!!!!!

Anyway if anyone got any good advice other than baton down the hatches would be greatfully appriciated.

Love Andrea xxxxx

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I hope the storms aren't coming, I've been struggling a lot already.

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Andrea, I wish there was a solution. Close all the windows and have all your meds on hand and ready in case you need there is nothing worse than not having a neb/inhaler ready.

Bex

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I wish the thunderstorms would come to the south east, woke up @ 4:30am this morn sneezing, wheezing & coughing it was raining, It was been soooooo muggy today, ive had to take inhaler twice already. I just feel soooo week, Hope it gets cooler soon.

Lmc

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LMC, don't know how 'south east' you are situated, but West London is very soggy and defnitely not so muggy now.

Haven't had a full blown Armageddon in the sky, just the odd rumble. Chest seems to be holding up, but sinus pain and hayfever have gone totally off the scale though, so whoever said hayfever is better in the rain, had better write an appendix to their text book.

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Im about 30mins from Brighton, since i did that message it has poured down with rain. Feel a little better. Im always worse with Hayfever in the rain. I think its cos the pollen comes down with it.

I actually fell asleep for an hour & a bit this afternoon, which i Never do. At lunchtime i felt really light headed, feel a bit better now.

Lmc

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Despiter storms not agreeing with lungs I want a storm over cambridge as the air is getting heavier and heavier - need something to clear the air.

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We had thunderstorms in london yesterday.It made it feel cooler, but the pollen count is still high.

Also it will be getting hotter by the weekend again.

love

carole

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I'm with you there rusty, I'm in the next county to you, suffolk, and the air is heavy (altho not been too bad 2day) but this weather has been causing me pain in my feet, which makes it tricky to walk sometimes, so i want a storm to take pain away but don't tell lungs i said that, don't want them getting any ideas! ;o)

Christine

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Thunderstorm asthma"" tends to mostly affect those asthmatics who react to pollen and fungal spores. During a thunderstorm, strong updrafts pull these pollen grains and fungal spores, and other pollutants, high up into the clouds, where they freeze. This freezing causes the contents to spill out making them more allergenic, and when they eventually fall back down to the ground in rain, they can set off allergic reactions.

Why many asthmatics also experience worsening symptoms before thunderstorms, is, I suspect, due to the rapid change in temperature, coupled with increasing humidity, which causes large numbers of fungal spores to be released.

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ok, this may sound a bit garbled, but here goes:

apparently radio 2 (must have been between 6 & 6.30 last night - Chris Evans show?) had a clinical director (??) from the met office talking about the effect of thunderstorms on breathing, and asthma. having heard about it second hand, i'm not entirely sure what he was saying, but apparently this is what happens:

before the thunderstorm you get lots of positive ions (bad) building up which is what brings the pollen (bad), fungus (bad) and pollution (for me very bad) down to ground level.

then when the rain hits, we get lots of negative ions (good, what you should get from an ioniser if its working) and all the other stuff gets cleared away.

he was also apparently talking about changes in pressure and humidity causing us issues, which of course also happen around the thunderstorm...

apparently this was all research done in the 50's and 60's, that has gone out of fashion, but never been disproved...

i will try and find a recording of this... because i want to hear it first hand anyway!!

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Justy, This is the problem (the way I see it)...

Since this thread has started I have seen that AUK have issued a public statement/warning followed by national radio and TV channels. And they have all made some sort of reference to pollen grains being broken up by rainfall and electomagnetic radiation. None of these statements (I believe) have been based on hard scientific evidence but instead on speculative ideas/theories which appear attractive but have not been backed up by scientific based medical evidence (please someone correct me if I have got this wrong).

The research that I referred to earlier was published in 2003

(Chest. 2003;123:745-750.)

© 2003 American College of Chest Physicians

The Role of Fungal Spores in Thunderstorm Asthma*

Robert E. Dales, MD, MSc; Sabit Cakmak, PhD; Stan Judek, MSc; Tom Dann, MEng; Frances Coates, MLT; Jeffrey R. Brook, PhD and Richard T. Burnett, PhD

* From the University of Ottawa Health Research Institute (Dr. Dales), Ottawa; Health Canada (Drs. Cakmak and Burnett), Ottawa; Air Health Effects Division (Mr. Judek), Health Canada, Ottawa; Air Toxics (Mr. Dann), Analysis and Air Quality Division, Environment Canada, Ottawa; Aerobiology Research Laboratories (Mr. Coates), Ottawa; and Atmospheric Environment Service (Dr. Brook), Environment Canada, Ottawa, Canada.

Justy, like you I would be interested to read of other (current) research papers that have been published in the various learned journals.

Please note that asthmatics tend to be affected when the weather is damp and miserable regardless of whether there is or has been a thunderstorm. Pollen grains have found to be less prevalent when it is damp, humid or raining. In fact I believe rain washes airborne pollen out of the air.

Derek

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hey deek,

i agree completely! i was interested by what this guy was saying, because he was mentioning pollution, which i know Asthma UK says somewhere is not a big deal for asthmatics (please correct me if i'm wrong about that, but i'm sure i read it on their site!) but seems to be the only way for me to explain the regional variation in my symptoms! also, i don't suffer from hayfever, the pollen doesn't affect me very much, and according to my recent allergy tests i have no reaction to fungus at all, yet before the thunderstorm i can't breathe, and after its better.

this leaves me with humidity, ions, air pressure and pollution.. i'd be interested to read the old papers if they haven't been disproved, let alone new ones!

i'm getting to the point where i'm having to seriously consider leaving london if the doc's can't find any way to help me, so find this really interesting!

take care,

justy

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Justy,

I can completely identify with your comments (re – pollution).

I commuted to Edinburgh for about 10 years and would go to extraordinary lengths to try and avoid the pollution (diesel fumes in particular).

Since I stopped commuting to “auld reekie” [Edinburgh] a number of years ago, my asthma has improved/stabilised dramatically. So, if I were in your shoes I would leave London tomorrow!

Diesel fumes, which are described as PM10s due to the diesel particulates being less than 10 micron in size, are smaller than pollen grains and can be breathed straight into the bronchial airways. Unlike pollen which generally gets trapped in the nasal passages.

I don’t want to bang on about PM10s too much but suffice it to say they are carcinogenic (cancer causing) and the last government was forced to do a U turn on its so-called green policy because of the confirmed risks to human health. Under the precautionary principal the government was forced to increase the cost of diesel to encourage people to use less harmful fuels. As you know, this precautionary action was totally ineffective.

Because PM10s can cause auto-immune disease it will almost certainly cause other negative effects on the immune system. For example, it is reported that PM10s act as an adjuvant and will cause/exacerbate asthma and allergy symptoms in susceptible persons exposed to both pollen and PM10s. Allergists would argue that PM10s don’t act as an adjuvant, but are merely another immune system stressor which adds up to form the total stress load which in may cases leads to allergy/asthma symptoms. To me, it doesn’t really matter what it is called – it still leads to unwanted allergy/asthma symptoms.

So, if both traffic pollution and fungal spores increases during thunderstorms (as stated in the 2003 paper) then this surely must heighten the risk of causing exacerbating allergy/asthma.

There is another very important component of spores that tends to be overlooked by the untrained eye. Airborne spores have the propensity to breakdown further into VOCs (volatile organic compounds) and these are considerably smaller than PM10s. There is much evidence to support the view that VOCs cause/exacerbate allergy/asthma but this tends to be conveniently brushed under the carpet and categorised as chemical sensitivity.

Interestingly enough, there are no published stats on people suffering from chemical sensitivity, but there is mounting concern (on here in particular) that people are suffering allergy/asthma symptoms and taking large quantities of pred and other meds without having the true cause of their symptoms identified.

Derek

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Justy

I can understand you wanting to move out of london if it is going to improve your chest. Why not try renting somehwhere and living for a few months before taking the big plunge.

Saying that we moved to devon from the trent valley and my son has benefittedchest wise. I suffer with problems with pollen but love the fact if on the sea front I am absolutely fine and can be out as long as I need yet once home, which is about 15 mins in the car one foot out the door will set of a severe attack.

If things continue as there are over the next few years we may move again to be as near as possible to the sea front even if it means being in a smaller property.

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Justy

I can understand you wanting to move out of london if it is going to improve your chest. Why not try renting somehwhere and living for a few months before taking the big plunge.

Saying that we moved to devon from the trent valley and my son has benefittedchest wise. I suffer with problems with pollen but love the fact if on the sea front I am absolutely fine and can be out as long as I need yet once home, which is about 15 mins in the car one foot out the door will set of a severe attack.

If things continue as there are over the next few years we may move again to be as near as possible to the sea front even if it means being in a smaller property.

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Justy

I can understand you wanting to move out of london if it is going to improve your chest. Why not try renting somehwhere and living for a few months before taking the big plunge.

Saying that we moved to devon from the trent valley and my son has benefittedchest wise. I suffer with problems with pollen but love the fact if on the sea front I am absolutely fine and can be out as long as I need yet once home, which is about 15 mins in the car one foot out the door will set of a severe attack.

If things continue as there are over the next few years we may move again to be as near as possible to the sea front even if it means being in a smaller property.

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Hi Justy and everyone else,

I listened to that radio broadcast yesterday. It was an eye opener. Apparently people who suffer from migraines, rheumatoid arthritis, asthma, hayfever... in fact any sort of enviromentally affected allergy and/or allergan can predict the weather better than those folks trained at the Met centre in Reading.

I've always been affected by the weather, or rather my immune system is.

So just before a thunderstorm I'm very bad asthma wise, then just afterwards feel as if I can breathe to the bottom of my boots or lungs!

Apparently as well as the air being filled with junky pollens and pollutants it is also positively charged re positive ions, which equals bad. Negative ions happen after a thunderstorm, and they equal good. Just don't ask me to explain the Physics! But in Eng. Lit terms, 'two legs good four legs better'

What I am going to do is buy an ioniser. This guy, -Doctor Bird (?) - talking on the radio programme - emphasised the fact that ionisers can change positve (bad) ions into negative (good) ions. So could be a good substitute for those of us that don't live near the coast, and where there are lots of negative ions..

The ionisers cost £20. Smallish price to pay for something that could help asthma symptoms.

Mia

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i like the ioniser idea too, except i've used two or three in my life, and never found them hugely useful. i found something called an 'air cooler' in a well known diy store, which (suprisingly) cools air, though not as much as aircon, but also ionises, filters and humidifies, in any combination. that costs £50, and i think i might give it a shot, before upping sticks completely!

j