Hi, I have been trying to research my illness (PPP) to make sense of it and have come up with a few questions I wonder if others could comment on.
1. Regarding hormones, do you think the sex of the babies has an effect on the illness. Do female babies provoke a higher risk of the illness in mothers? (I had 2 girls very close together)
2. Regarding hormones, do you think having 3 covid vaccinations (pfiser) during pregnancy may have increased risk of illness?
3. My birth was extremely quick and I believe I laboured in my back due to backache, I gave birth to the placenta naturally. Could this have increased risk?
I fell ill about 8 weeks after the birth of my second daughters.
Thanks
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SHOREYY33
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Thank you for posting and welcome to the forum 😊 I’m sorry you’ve experienced PP and do hope you’re doing ok.
I'm Jenny, I'm one of the peer support coordinators at APP. I know I had so many questions when I had PP (10 years ago now) and wanted to understand as much as I could, like you say to try and make sense of it.
The information on our website says what we know so far about what causes PP (under frequently asked questions): app-network.org/what-is-pp/
There are likely to be many factors that lead to an episode of Postpartum Psychosis. We know that genetic factors are important. You are more likely to have Postpartum Psychosis if a close relative has had it. Changes in hormone levels and disrupted sleep patterns may also be involved. Postpartum Psychosis might be more common in women with thyroid problems or pre-eclampsia, but further research is desperately needed to understand the complex interaction of biological, psychological and social factors that are involved. For this reason, we are very keen for people to help us with research into PP - click here to find out more - app-network.org/research/
Everyone’s personal experience is so different and tends to involve so many different factors unique to each person, almost like our own ‘perfect storm’. For me, I’m sure lack of sleep was a huge factor but it must have been in the mix alongside other factors as if sleep deprivation alone caused PP it would surely be much more common! Similarly, a traumatic birth or an infection might be part of one mum’s ‘perfect storm’ and not the next…
I had PP after my first son was born. I remember wondering if there was a higher incidence of PP in mums who had had a boy but I think someone has asked the question here before and there was a pretty even split 😊 I’m not aware of any concerns linked to covid vaccination during pregnancy but I will see what I can find out from our clinical experts at APP.
I hope this helps a bit. I know it can take some time to process what has happened after such a traumatic experience and I hope you find it really helpful to connect with others here who have been on a similar journey.
Just to add that I've checked with our clinical experts and they have advised that there is no evidence they are aware of that would support any of the aspects above increasing the risk of PP. I also wanted to share our insider guide 'Recovery after Postpartum Psychosis' with you. Our insider guides were all written with the help of women who have experienced PP and their partners.
I think I would be inclined to disagree with you Jenny on one point and I hope you don’t mind me saying that I think the actual birth experience can have an incredibly overwhelming effect on new mothers. I had an emergency C-section as the cord was around the baby’s neck and consequently she was showing signs of foetal distress and they had to get her out urgently. The suddeness of it all left a deep impression on me - one moment I was talking/laughing with my husband, the next he was being ushered out, curtains were being drawn round my bed and then I was being given is it called? a free Brazilian to prepare for the Caesarian. I was subsequently told that the nature of the birth, in my case the section, contributed greatly to my getting postnatal depression. So in ShoreYY33’s case I personally feel the quickness of the birth was a trauma in itself.
It's Ellie from APP here. I'm really sorry to hear about your traumatic birth, that sounds awful and as you say, I imagine it did greatly contribute to getting postnatal depression.
I just wanted to clarify what Jenny had written above, and what you responded to. I think what our expert clinicians are saying, is that from all the research into postpartum psychosis, experience of birth trauma doesn't seem to put you at increased risk of postpartum psychosis, though from research there is a clear increased risk of postnatal depression. The only clear increased risks seem to be a previous episode of psychosis and / or bipolar diagnosis, and an increased risk (though much less than if you have your own personal experience) if your mother or sister have experienced psychosis.
It is hard to know for sure the causes of postpartum psychosis. Having heard a lot of stories, and reflecting on my own experience, it always seems to be a combination of factors, which are different and individual for each person, and I think a lot of people feel experiencing a traumatic birth was a contributory factor, though I know many others who had very uncomplicated births (who didn't feel traumatised by the birth) who also experienced postpartum psychosis.
For me, I feel genetic factors (my mum experienced psychotic episodes, though not postpartum psychosis), biological / hormonal changes, some birth trauma (a very quick birth and a third degree tear), psychologically adjusting to being a mother, and sleep deprivation, were probably all contributory factors which caused me to experience PP but it is so hard to know for definite. Of course, many other women will have had all the same factors as me, and not become unwell. I've found I've somehow had to live with just 'not knowing' - we can never know for certain what caused it.
Thank you for this and I'm sorry, in retrospect my reply wasn't at all clear enough - thank you to Ellie for responding to clarify while I've been away.
Absolutely I agree with you, the birth experience can have an incredibly overwhelming effect on new mothers - I didn't have an emergency C-section like you but it was all a sudden rush towards the end, being taken to the other end of the unit, consultant barking at me (!) and my son too arriving with the cord around his neck. I can only imagine the shock of what you went through.
I'm so glad we have this space to support each other and share experiences. You mention feeling that PP was a sign of weakness, I felt the same, believing for so long that I had PP because I just couldn't cope, in particular with the lack of sleep, but there must have been more to it than that! It's certainly good to talk/write and share
I certainly agree with every thing you say, Jenny, and I just am so grateful for all the help and support I have found here - thank you for your reply and for everything you do x
Thank you for replying and you are right with not knowing what causes PP - it can happen to anybody and doesn’t discriminate…I always thought it was a sign of weakness when I had it and was deeply ashamed of it for a long time, even with knowing lots of other people had it. I kept asking at the time i.e. when I was in hospital - was it related to previous depressive episodes I had had but I was told there was no connection, it could happen to anybody. But I still think being depressed before left me more vulnerable to postnatal depression which then led to psychosis. Thanks again Ellie for your reply.
Yes - I think that's the most important message we want to give - that it's not our fault that we experienced PP and that it really can happen to anyone, and doesn't discriminate. That's the perfect way to put it.
The shame can be awful. Strangely enough I didn't feel so much that it was my fault I had psychosis (as it seemed to come so quickly, and out of the blue), but I blamed myself for a long time for the depression I had afterwards, as I felt I hadn't 'done enough' (e.g. mindfulness exercises, or positive affirmations) to stop myself getting depressed afterwards - when in fact for many people it is just a natural consequence of the illness, and none of us would choose to be unwell.
This is why it's so important that we find each other and share experiences, from my experience, there was nothing better to deal with the shame and guilt - to realise everything we experienced was 'normal' for postpartum psychosis, and part of being unwell.
Thank you so much Ellie, I felt very emotional reading your post and also greatly relieved - I just feel I have been isolated for so long but it was of my own making - the isolation I mean. One of my major downfalls has been my tendency to bottle things up or internalise I believe they call it; I didn’t even tell my husband that I was suicidal during PP until after a year. I won’t go into details but I remember thinking one night “I won’t be here tomorrow” and feeling relieved at that prospect. Sorry if this post is a bit long and too personal, please feel free to delete. I just wanted to let you know how much your reply moved me, thank you so so much xPS I couldn’t agree more with what you said at the end; it made me feel strangely happy. Bless you.
I'm so glad reading my message helped, it was emotional to read your reply.... and thank you so much for opening up and sharing your experience so honestly. It can only be a good thing!
I'm so sorry you felt suicidal - it is not surprising, it is so traumatic and awful what we go through, and as you have written, you are in so much pain you do just want it to be over. It must have been very hard to be open about those feelings at the time, I hope it felt helpful to have managed to tell your husband that is how you felt, even if it was a long time afterwards.
I agree, bottling things up, and isolating ourselves is of course our own making, and doesn't help in the end, but I think also it's such a natural thing to do, to protect ourselves - and also perhaps our mind and bodies way of only making sure we deal with things when we are ready?
I know for the first 18 months after I experienced PP, I didn't really speak about my experience (it just felt very overwhelming, and I couldn't really put it into words to be honest), I was just focusing on getting through the day and looking after my son, as a lot of days for a while felt like such a struggle. It didn't even occur to me to try and reach out for support or to link with others, other than the mental health team that were supporting me.
It was only after 18 months, when I felt stronger in myself and that I had generally recovered - as in I felt more like myself again - that I dared to google 'postpartum psychosis' and luckily found APP (which had only really just started and was mainly just this forum, and not much other types of support). In some ways I wish I had found it earlier, and I wonder if it would have helped me recover quicker, or at least help me not to feel so isolated and lonely, and ashamed.
Like you describe, I felt so relieved when I read others stories and experiences, and realised I wasn't alone after all in everything I had felt - including the guilt, shame, sadness, that I wasn't being a good enough mum etc.
Thank you so much for your lovely reply Ellie and again I found what you said very reassuring. Also very interesting and made me think again about bottling things up - you said it was maybe the body’s automatic reflex to protect you? And to heal you when you got to the right place. My husband has often likened me to a rabbit(my ears are quite big) caught in the headlights, startled and frozen, unable to move forwards. We used to keep Guinea pigs - lovely little creatures - and they had the same freezing aspect. I appreciate so much what you have said to me in your thoughtful replies and I am very grateful for your help Ellie xx
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