Driving with AF - is it safe/allowed? I'm due to go down to Bristol for Easter Weekend, a round trip of 480 miles

[davieb]

[elmbury]

Driving with AF in itself is perfectly safe and allowed....however no-one should drive if they feel that their abilities are being diminished e.g. by tiredness or slowness of thought. AF exhibits a range of symptoms in the people it affects - it is up to the individual to determine how these affect his or her's driving.

[migmog]

Methinks and know from past experience that we with AF know how and when we have to pace ourselves - the body lets you know. Mainly to make sure you are 'on form' with medication. Happy driving!! don't let AF stop you

[AFAssociation1]

Elmbury and Migmog - You have given great advice.

AF should not restrict you from driving but nobody knows their body better than themselves. So, if you feel tired, take a break and keep calm. Sometimes, worrying can cause more of a problem than the AF itself.

Wish you a good Easter break!

[BobD Volunteer]

Hi Davieb,, I have driven thousand of miles in AF and I know of at least one race driver who has AF. As said above know when you feel that you are impaired and take a rest. If you are feeling light headed or faint then that would be a good time NOT to drive. That said it is important to understand that DVLA have a view on this. Under the "guide to medical practitioners" section on the DVLA website it does state that they must be advised but although I never did (naughty boy, but don't have AF now) people who I know who did have only had to complete a questionaire and provided that your driving is not impaired you are allowed to continue driving. However! Since AF is a notifiable condition you should also advise your insurance company. Failure to do this could possibly give them room to refuse cover in the event of a claim. I know of nobody who has been refused cover over AF or even had an increased premium but like all these things, don't give them the chance to screw you by not telling them..

[BobD Volunteer]

Hi Again, I just went back onto the DVLA site as they update advice from time to time and arrhythmias including AF are no longer notifiable unless they distract or incapacitate the driver.and the underlying cause has been identified and controlled.so most of what I wrote above is garbage. The way I see it if DVLA don't want to know then neither should your insurance co.. The only insurance problem I have is lack of life insurance as last time I tried to get some other than over fifties plan I was rejected. They want symptom free for five years and I still have one year to go.

Sorry about the confusion I should have checked first..

[Bagrat]

Both husband and I have AF; he'sin Permanent AF and has no symptoms I have had three episodes of PAF.. After reading advice on the AF Yahoo Group we both informed DVLA about 6 weeks ago when the DVLA site still said arrhythmias should be declared. I enclosed a letter saying the info was ambiguous as we had both been advised by docs no need to notify but website said yes.. We heard last week that they would not be contacting our medical practitioners. The hosp registrar did say last year we should tell insurers but that caused a problem as they did not have a box to tick if the DVLA weren't informed!! so just "put it on file"

[Bagrat]

gov.uk/arrhythmia-and-driving

Have just looked at DVLA site and got this

The first question is have you been advised by your doctor to inform DVLA yes/no

if yes what is your condition.

So what to do if answer NO?

[BobD Volunteer]

This is the problem with honesty isn't it. I hadn't checked the latest info till today and it does now say that DVLA do not need to be advised if the condition does not incapacitate or distract. This is quite different to previous advise. It does say that driving should cease until the underlying cause has been established.. This is in the advice to medical practitioners section not the advice to drivers.. The question of insurers is interesting. Any condition which could affect your driving is a material fact which could affect cover an insurance friend of mine tells me but if it doesn't affect you whilst driving and DVLA do not need to know then why tell them. Sneezes can affect your driving but how many people tell their insurers they have hay-fever? The answer to the last question above must be nothing.

[davieb]

Many thanks for all the comments.

I feel fine to drive but am still a little apprehensive given the medics concerns about the increased chances of stroke, not necessarily for my own safety but for the safety of other road users.

Will take it nice and steady with plenty of pit stops - but no Costa Coffees or Danish pastries!

Davie

[Beancounter Volunteer]

Would one of the posters above please supply the link to the DVLA and arrythmia, the only link I can find is this

gov.uk/arrhythmia-and-driving

and that one simply says you must inform us and fill in the form.

I'm sure you are all correct, but for my peace of mind, it would be useful to have the link please, and I am also thinking it might be best to inform my insurance company in writing.

I have asymptomatic persistent AF, in other words I am in it constantly, but suffer just about no symptoms whatsoever.

Many thanks

Ian

[BobD Volunteer]

Hi Beancounter.. It is typical of any government organisation that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. I just checked the drivers info section and sure enough it says you should advise them and fill in form H1, a copy of which I have just downloaded for future ref if anybody else asks. BUT!!!!!!!!!!! if you go into "DVLA at a glance guide to the current medical guidelines for medical practitioners" it says that DVLA do not need to be advised. and that driving may continue provided that the condition does not cause distraction etc etc. What I suspect has happened here is that at one time DOCTORS had to advise DVLA of certain conditions in patients but that requirement has now been removed in the case of AF. In the drivers medical section as you point out it does require you to tell them and complete form H1 so it appears the the advice I gave in my original post was correct after all which includes advising insurance co etc. so what has changed is that the onus has moved from the doctor to the patient. Since few doctors seem to know what is required anyway I bet there are hundreds of AF patients driving around under threat of the £1000 fine which DVLA say can be levied if you don't tell them. of a medical condition they consider notifiable. This feels like a game of snakes and ladders to me so I'm off for a nice cup of rosie.

[davieb in reply to BobD]

Hi BobD

I'm as confused as a chameleon in a box of smarties now!

Changed my mind, now - going to go on the train. But, will fill in the H1 form and notify my insurance company 'cos will continue to drive for short/medium length journeys.

My main concern is not compliance with government bureaucrats but with overall safety of all around.

Many Thanks

Davie

[Beancounter Volunteer]

Hi Davie and all

Thanks Bobd, found the link now and for anyone looking it's here

dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/aag...

So effectively, the official advice to drivers is fill in the form and tell us, and the offical advice to medical practitioners is "need not be notified unless there are distracting/disabling symptoms"

Love the chameleon analogy Davie, (first time I have heard it) and very apposite.

So AFA how about helping us out on this one? can we have an official letter to the DVLA pointing out the contradictory advice, and asking them for a ruling?

Technically we are all under threat of a £1,000 fine until they have clarified the position.

And can we have some official advice about insurance, is it notifiable?, perhaps a letter to the association of british insurers as well please?

Sorry about this but like to tie up loose ends (not a beancounter for nothing :))

Ian

[davieb in reply to Beancounter]

Couldn't agree more about the clarification point, Ian.

So far (only diagnosed 2 weeks ago), everything I've heard about this illness has been contradictory:-

1. Driving - notify or not.

2. Drugs - betablockers prescribed by hospital A&E not be taken if a COPD sufferer.

- dlitiazem (often prescribed) not to be taken if irregular heartbeat

- aspririn no good for blood thinning

3. Alcohol - a friend's brother who has AF drinks half a bottle of red wine daily, but other advice is to cut it out.

4. AF attacks - can't find a definition, so unsure if I'm in a permanent attack state or just got loud heartbeat and breathless.

5. Urgency - rushed to A&E in an ambulance, but can't get an intended appointment with the cardiologist.

6. Read other people have suffered from AF for many years and lead fairly normal lives. Difficult to understand the seriousness of AF.

All this is stressing me out - will be much happier when I know much more..

Sorry for the rant.

Davie

[tigsx in reply to davieb]

Davie your post was a while ago but I know how you feel. first rushed to a & e 6 weeks ago back in yesterday still waiting to bee seen by specialist from original trip saw one yesterday through being taken in and he confirmed af. gp had put me on aspirin specialist said its pointless :/ any clues about the long term seriousness or not and who to inform are beyond a joke.

[Hidden in reply to Beancounter]

It depends on the insurance company. I'm with LV and I rang them to say that I've started taking dronedarone for PAF, and neither the EP or my GP of many years has said that it would affect driving or that I should contact the DVLA. LV acknowledged that some insurance companies require formal notification but they didn't.

[Beancounter Volunteer in reply to Hidden]

Hi John Boy

Sorry but no it doesn't the DVLA specifically list all arrythmias as notifiable by anyone with a driving licence. Doctors do not have to tell them but YOU do.

In virtually all cases it makes no difference, but you must inform them.

In their advice to doctors they say that you do not need to advise, but that page is specifically for the medical profession.

The problem is that have an accident and if you have not notified then technically you are uninsured.

Take care

Ian

[Hidden]

Hi Beancounter;

I agree about the DVLA. I was answering the specific question about the insurance company notification. It's one of those strange things that my heart monitor download has indicated that I have had lone AF for many years. However, negative tilt table and other tests have resulted in the medical community believing that I don't have exercise induced PAF, until I pushed the point and got a referral this year. During that time I've been driving thousands of miles without accident or driving infringement, but now there is a requirement to contact the DVLA although nothing has changed and, my METS score during the BRUCE protocol is equivilent to a "healthy 20 year old" rather than a guy of 67.

[emb398]

I CAN'T drive with AF - I can't leave the loo for long enough! I once (during diagnosis) drove myself to A&E with an attack, rushed into the loo on arriving, then explained I needed an ECG, as per consultants letter, which I gave to them. They were bemused by my frequent trips to the loo, but measured my output, and were amazed! We tried the pill that my specialist had recommended, and I immediately threw it back up! When I had finished, they suggested admitting me, but I explained that I had an appointment in less than 12 hrs with the Cardiologist, so they let me drive home, after one, last lootrip! In the 4 hours I went six times, with an output of over 4litres!! Only just got home in time...

[Loo53]

Good info I'm taking my driving test in a few weeks and wondered how my AF would figure in the grand scheme of things.