I am in persistent a-fib (i.e. my heart is always arrhythmic) and even though I am in reasonable shape for my age and I think reasonable fitness considering i have a-fib, i get completely breathless after a short period of even moderately intense exertion and I have to stop and stand still to catch my breath.
So because of this I am afraid of swimming in the sea where there is a risk of being swept to a depth that I can't stand - even if that will most likely be for a few seconds before the waves sweep me back in and/or I can swim back to shallow water (I live in Cape Town).
I have the same fear of swimming in dams and deep rock pools in mountains.
I have resorted to taking a pool noodle to the beach now ... and it blends with my baggies.
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Jonathan_C
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In UK, footballer Michael Newberry died on 30.12.2024., aged only 27. He died on "sudden death". Before 2019., there were 3-4 such deaths a year. After the well known performance, there are 300-400 such deaths a year. Reason, unknown, lol. The mechanism they die is very simple. They are chemically prepared for arrhythmias (disturbed Autonomous Nervous System), then they add intense exercise (repeated sprints during training) and end in ventricular arrhythmia, leading to Cardiac Arrest. Few survive...
If you already are in some kind of arrhythmia, no matter what (arrhythmias may change during the same day, very abruptly), depending on what activity you take part in, you also may end in Cardiac Arrest. Of course, everybody is right to decide how big risk he is willing to accept. Your body, your choice... I am also gambling - I do not want to take anticoagulants...
Has Michael Newberry's cause of death been confirmed?
Too little exercise can also be a problem for your health too.
Jonathan_C (note final sentence below)
According to an article on the British Heart Foundation website:
"Can I exercise if I have atrial fibrillation?
If you have been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation (AF), it’s common to worry about whether you can exercise. It’s unlikely that exercise will make your AF worse. With the right precautions, exercise can increase your confidence and improve your heart health.
If your heart beats faster and irregularly at times, but not at others (paroxysmal AF), it’s better to exercise when this isn’t happening, as you may become more breathless or feel discomfort in your chest. If you are in AF all the time (persistent AF), you can exercise as much as you want, as long as your heart rate is under control, you are stable on your treatment and you are feeling well.
If you’re not feeling well because of your AF, ask your GP or specialist for exercise advice."
Thank you! It is such a good thing to have the advice from reliable source. I still remember doctors advising the people to take Covid jabs, and I know that they are still pushing it. Such a good care for people!
"Thank you! It is such a good thing to have the advice from reliable source. "
Would you care to name the reliable sources for the assertions in your reply to Jonathan_C's post? Doing so might add credibility to what otherwise appears to be dubious comments distantly related to some truths.
In addition, do you have a reliable source that contradicts the advice I posted from the British Heart Foundation?
“It’s unlikely that exercise will make AF worse with the right precautions.” Do you know what the precautions are? Unfortunately, for some of us excercise can cause an AF attack.
I'm not a medical professional but I would think the rest of the quote probably provides some guidance there i.e.
"If your heart beats faster and irregularly at times, but not at others (paroxysmal AF), it’s better to exercise when this isn’t happening, as you may become more breathless or feel discomfort in your chest. If you are in AF all the time (persistent AF), you can exercise as much as you want, as long as your heart rate is under control, you are stable on your treatment and you are feeling well.
If you’re not feeling well because of your AF, ask your GP or specialist for exercise advice."
Back to your question, we all need to know our limitations, which we learn from our own experiences and/or the advice obtained from others. In your case, I'd be discussing with your doctor what he/she believes you can do exercise wise and what to do if it does trigger your AF. Know your limitations and work within them - always following the advice of your medical professional.
From my perspective exercise comes in many forms. I can go for a walk for exercise and do 7,500 steps or I can get that many steps by just being very busy working around the house and garden doing chores i.e. without even leaving home. I call this productive exercise - which I prefer to do as it produces other positive outcomes.
So you can exercise without exercising.... the main thing is to know your limitations and follow the advice of your medical professional.
If you want to "exercise" more than you currently do then ask your medical professional for advice on how you can do that given your situation or for a referral to someone else better qualified to help you .
I agree. I have paroxysmal AF. My cardiologist said I could exercise as much as I wanted and to know my limit. He of course based his answer after looking at all my test results.. In or out of a-fib I can exercise. Nothing crazy for me. I do a very moderate workout. I'm not running several miles or anything like that.
I worry about contentious information not being cited and from credible sources.
Can you point to evidence for increased sudden deaths of that order of magnitude, please? The last time I looked there was none.
What I have found is that increasing numbers of young men in general and professional sportsmen in particular are in a cult-like grip of media driven images of masculinity. This is causing them to train excessively, eat massively of protein and supplements, and take anabolic steroids and similar; this can place excessive strain on their hearts, and risks causing either VT or exacerbating undiagnosed heart issues, often valvular.
This much pre-dates 2019. Our local university, famed for sport science, for example, has published much work on this as have many more - again, well before that date. Indeed, many research centres have been set up to investigate the problem - again pre-dating covid.
"I worry about contentious information not being cited and from credible sources."
Steve
Agree 100%. I also worry about "medical" advice provided by some that is not backed up by reputable medical sources i.e. based merely on their own beliefs and/or circumstances without qualification and without the usual disclaimers (we're all different, should consult with your doctor etc).
This is an area where I believe moderators should step in to ensure that "fake news" is removed before it is relied on by less questioning forum members.
On a slightly different tack, it fascinates me that posting online, and especially to social media, seems to alter the way some people communicate compared to if they were in a face to face conversation. Maybe seeing words in print has a touch of the limelight about it? The need for modesty is easily forgotten, too.
Steve, all I can say is that science has been sold out, long time ago. Fauci has said "I am the science!" Now, the curtains are falling down and "the science" will very probably go to jail. Just look what's happening in USA. Nothing has been misused more than science in the past 3-4 years. If any of you want real information, you have your Dr John Campbell in YT, with renown and honest guests, and with the truth, what is so rare nowadays.
That’s very true. I used to travel to work (many years ago!) with a young man who played football for Peterborough United. He had to train everyday and told me that he exercised until he physically vomited.
Now we are going back 50 years. That was then, but makes me wonder what they are expected to do now? Football is much faster and energetic now than it was then. You only have to look at old recorded matches to see the difference, I don’t recall hearing of young men dying a sudden death on the football pitch way back then. We certainly do now.
Vomiting is a sign of dangerously disturbed ANS, what can be achieved via physical activity. I recall somebody here report about a fellow who died when pushing the car, to jump-start it. Another case I recall is someone's neighbor, who died while removing the snow from the driveway. On one occasion, I also was pushing the car late afternoon, and waked tomorrow morning with vomiting (I vomited 2 times in my whole life!). Additionally, I was feeling nausea so strongly, that my main idea was: "God, just shut me off, I can not stand it any more!" It was where I was about 47 yo. so had not sufficient knowledge to understand what was going on.
Existential fear differs for all of us, me - it’s heights, no logic, just fear, pure emotion.
What Responsable says though is logic based on research the real risk of death following intense exercise when you have AF is very real.
Moderate your exercise so that you don’t become breathless. I think taking a flotation device when open water swimming is very sensible - but buy one intended for the purpose that is tied to your body when sea swimming! There are some good swim flotation devices around nowadays. Leave the pool noodle for where it was designed - the pool.
As far as I know it is. It is set to trigger when my heart rate drops to 45 bpm. It doesn’t have any effect on my breathing when exercising, so won’t help if I am in water that’s too deep to stand in.
The responses to this question are interesting and I get the sense that the way I experience breathlessness may not be that common.
Apart from the effort required (depending of course on how seriously you swim 😀) the movement of the arms pulls on the heart. The same applies to stretching up to work at something - say pruning a shrub.
I've never heard of that before Butterfly. Have always been told that moderate exercise is fine. That moderation is the key. I frequently stretch for items in my kitchen.....have to as have shrunk! 🤣😂These days I pay for someone to prune my shrubs/hedges not because of tbe stretching but because I no longer have the energy.....plus a compromised arm means I have to avoid equipment that vibrates like electric hedge trimmers. Great excuse!! 😂🤣
Hi Buff, I have never heard this either and swimming and yoga are my main sources of exercise , as well as dog walking . This has been OK ‘ed and agreed by my EP and arrhythmia nurse . Do you have any evidence to back this up ? X
I don't have any problems with gardening. I've only been swimming once since developing AF due to lack of opportunity- but it was fine. I've also recently started resistance training - very very basic - and if anything I find it helpful.
That's a pretty generalized statement, imo. It depends on the person. Swimming is one of the better exercises you can do. There is a lot of body movement, but you can say the same about yoga. From what I read since having a-fib, is yoga is a great way to deal with a-fib. But again, everyone is different.
I’ve learned to conquer my fear and mine is doubly risky as I’m allergic to blue bottles. Not sure if other countries have these in their oceans but I have a severe anaphylaxis reaction to them. I have to carry two epi pens and have a risk plan worked out with whomever I am with because if I get stung, I will need emergency care immediately and may not survive. Add to that is the fact I have a conduction disorder, and suffer breathlessness like you and fatigue.
Anyway, I live a few minutes from the beach in Australia and we live here as it’s a lifestyle choice. The ocean and the river are in our backyard and it’s a beautiful part of the world. I’m aware of my limits and risks and I plan for both. I always swim with my husband and he’s trained in first aid. We always have our phone with us. Life is worth living, so I live it!
As a visitor to Oz, many years ago now, well before Afib and other medical issues reared their heads; my partner and I were walking along one of the many beaches we visited and were fascinated by the strange blue coloured 'things' that were washed up on the waters edge. Their colour reminded us of old fashioned Royal Blue 'Quink' ink. We even picked some up to examine more closely. On returning to our camp site we mentioned this to our neighbour who said " Oh yeah, Bluebottles, they're poisonous". As we didn't have any symptoms and are still here they were hopefully dead by the time they washed up.
Yeah, our beaches can get smothered with them. They float on the water and the tentacles drag along under the water. For most people they only deliver a very painful sting. For the rare ones likes me, they are deadly. It’s the tentacles which hold the toxin so you must have been lucky to not have them touch you. The bubble is safe to touch even by me.
Clearly you enjoy your exercise but you can also change your lifestyle and contrary to popular belief still be happy and in some cases happier! If you doubt that, look around and I am sure you will meet others doing differently and enjoying life.
Secondly, listen to your body first and this Forum and medics second. If you get short of breath that is a message. The body is an amazing machine.
I was coughing on an ACE Inhibace, changed to metoprolol 49.75mg. In 18mths I lost weight and I went low BP. So taken off it. When I was transferred to new Dr he doubled it and I couldn't breath. well. I almost ended up in hospital. In 2010.
In Sept 2019 I had a stroke with rapid and persistent AF. On 4th day during a carotid arteries scan the scanner saw a shadow on my thyroid. It proved to be papillary cancer.
I was told that I would be prescribed Metoprolol. No I said it will make me breathless.
Given 3 x 23.75mg pills per day. PRADAXA I chose @110mg .
On Metoprolol like you breathless immediately I did anything.
No follow up post stroke.I demanded a heart specialist as even on 1 x 23.75 I was breathless.
Feb 2021 I had an ECHO, ECG and 24hr monitor. 186bpm avg Day with pauses at night and 47bpm. Changed to BB Bisoprolol. Another 24hr monitor showed 156bpm still uncontrolled.
No breathlessness and no pauses at night but even raising dose to 10mg was still uncontrolled. Left by cardiologist.
Referred to private recommended Heart Specialist. Introduced to CCB Diltiazem. 180mg too high. On 2.5 mg Biso for BP.
Reduced to Diltiazem 120mg CD and within last month I have quit all Bisoprolol as BP went low.
Fatigue gone and walking is better. Trying out further and further.
Have your meds checked via a 24hr H/Monitor and ECG.
hi jon, I think I’d be tempted to leave the swimming out. Have a paddle about by all means but any strenuous swimming in unpredictable seas sounds a little scary for me.!!
I consulted a private electrophysiologist when I had AF confirmed at the beginning of 2023. I'm now in it more or less 24/7. His first words to me were ; it won't kill you but it will affect the quality of life. I asked him if I could go back into the gym and he said; no exercise. Now having been in it since 2023, I know what he means. If I walk up steps or an incline, I run out of breath and have to stop. Similarly, other 'excertion' things bring on that feeling. I walk quite a lot in short bursts during the day but don't do any 'gym' work or pick up anything very heavy. I have an otherwise healthy heart apparently, but my atrium is enlarged; caused no doubt by AF and I have fluid around the heart. I refused to go down the Amiodarone, cardio version, ablation route so really only depend on Bisoprolol to keep the rate under control. Plus anticoagulation to avoid strokes.
It was recomended that I have a cardioversion then consider ablation but as I said in my post, I discounted this. There are a lot of people who have multiple ablations and cardioversions then still go back into AF. So all those electric shocks plus burning of heart tissue can't be good; in my opinion. Amiodarone seems to be the most likely for me but it has horrendous side effects so I refused that too, as they wanted to pre-load me first with a very high dose. I am actually considering going back to the EP for Amiodarone but in a much smaller dose to minimise the side effects.
I have a procedure scheduled in mid March. I'm doing everything I can to avoid it. I have paramoxal a-fib. Been out of a-fib for 16 days. I'm very sensitive to salt since this happened. A lot of anxiety as well. Still losing weight. Was 228, now about 199lbs. Goal is 185.
Hello Jonathan. I'd like to say something helpful and not exacerbate your fears.I do think all of us fear doing things we used to do before AF. And breathlessness is unnerving. Have you spoken with your Dr about the breathlessness? Are you on BBs?
If you like swimming can you start by going with a friend thenfirst few times to see how you get on? I think that's how I'd handle it. Living where you are it seems a shame to stop doing things you love.
Jonathan, I got paroxysmal afib, I swim every day. My cardiologist even mentioned it is better than walking because our arms are closer to the heart. Exercise should be encouraged as long as it is moderate and you pace yourself.
It's deep. I see swimming as an exercise to work on my breathing. Swimming relaxes me and makes me feel great but I am usually in sinus rhythm. Every time I exercise, I try to focus on my breathing to make sure I breathe softly and slowly preferably through my nose. When I swim the stroke, I mix nasal breathing with mouth breathing. Of course, if you are afib, be more cautious.
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