Pasted-on Electrodes

[Corazon17]

I have a Wellue ECG device, the kind that can make a 24-hour record.

Its electrodes can be strapped on or pasted on.

The pasties work better from this standpoint: They will make a continuous 24-hour record, with no interruptions.

However, when I use the strap, the resulting 24-hour record can be in many parts, six and more so far. Plus, at times the electrodes will vibrate, as if they are stopping and restarting their recording. This can wake me up in the middle of the night.

Having six separate recordings is a real hassle, because I like to print out the third pages of the reports, so the fewer pages the better, for the sake of my bulging three-ring binder.

So, my preference is to use the pasted-on electrodes, except for this: After 24 hours, my skin is red and very itchy where the things have been pasted on. This didn't happen for the first few weeks of my use of the electrodes, but now it does every time.

The difference is that I bought new electrodes when the original electrodes ran out. Soon, the newer electrodes began to cause this problem. Or maybe not.

So I wonder: Do any of you have experience with "toxic electrodes," or know of a good source for electrodes that do not cause skin irritation? I got mine from eBay, rather than from Wellue.

[OzRob]

I agree, the adhesive dots are better. I use 3m red dot 2560.

[Ppiman]

I get similar and think movement affects the connection causing it to restart as well as create severe electrical "noise" at times, too. I never get a perfect ECG trace from the Wellue but it seems to do well enough and I think it's good for a home device. I always keep in mind how an ECG in hospital needs me to lie perfectly still, so I guess the Wellue can only do its best. The excellent summary it produces is all I tend to need, and I never store a printed copy, only the file on my PC

I bought extra electrode pads from Amazon - ones that received many genuine seeming good reviews; they are called Skintact, by an Austrian company. They do cause some redness but no allergy. I think it's best to shave the area they go otherwise it's agony to remove them pulling at the hairs. 3M company also make similar gel electrodes, and I would buy those next.

Steve

[Corazon17 in reply to Ppiman]

I will find those 3Ms, too. OzRob says, "3m red dot 2560." In fact, I just order 50 for $15.98 on eBay. Better price on Amazon, but I'm not an Amazon user yet.

The electrodes I got were insanely inexpensive: 50 for $9.98, shipping within the U.S. included.

They seem to be very well made and believable. They are "Ag/AgCl sensors" of the "solid gel" type ("wet gel" also seems possible).

Their packaging seems to give more info than the 3M packaging.

I'm confident that they are fine for short-term use, but it seems that after 12 or 15 hours, for me the irritation and redness begins. I think it's a reaction to the chemical. I ponder whether these come from China (they must, right?) and if less-than-ideal chemical have been deployed. So I am trusting 3M to be more diligent, but I also know that 3M has a checkered past (for reasons I can't recall now).

I hate the waste of these things, but the problems with the strap are worse for me than the pangs of conscience over the waste.

Of course I have looked up "Ag/AgCl electrodes," and I see another lifetime-of-learning rabbit hole.

[Ppiman in reply to Corazon17]

I didn’t know there was such variety. The ones that came with it were a soft and were adhesive but the replacements were drier more typical of what I expect,

I used to work for 3M and, on their medical devices, I would put them as leaders.

I gather that the new Wellue model uses only the company’s own pads only available from themselves.

Steve

[Corazon17 in reply to Ppiman]

No offense intended about 3M. My family was in Minnesota for a few generations, and had friends who worked for 3M. I vaguely recall something about 3M that caused grief among those family friends who worked there. In the 1970s, maybe. I think it was *other than* the Post-It disputes.

I'm looking forward to getting the 3M product. I see from packaging photos that they're made in Canada.

[Ppiman in reply to Corazon17]

I am sure you are right about certain aspects of the company. Along with other companies, with Du Pont coming to mind, 3M has been shown to be less than interested in the environment and polluting it, if I recall. In terms of products, however, on the medical side, I only have seen excellence in design, manufacture and QC. That said, those companies were likely all acquisitions.

Steve

[mav7 in reply to Corazon17]

Corazon17 and Ppiman

Thanks for posting this review of the Wellue 24 hr monitor. Very helpful for those considering.

Does Wellue have a customer help forum or other media to provide advice on issues ?

[Corazon17 in reply to mav7]

I installed the Windows-PC software a few months ago.

It was a very difficult process. Maybe things are different now.

I recommend the device, but warn that it might require an unfair amount of luck and talent to prevail.

There were quite a few discussions about this at that time regarding its working with Windows 7, but not with Windows 10 or 11, with freezes and crashes evidently associated with the computer not accepting the USB device that is the heart monitor.

Too complicated to remember or to repeat here, since things might have changed as the result of a software update. Another member here communicated with Wellue at the time, and maybe that resulted in an update that will make all I say irrelevant to you. On the other hand, maybe not. The Wellue person wanted screen shots of things that could not be screen-shot, such as a computer being frozen. It was apparent that there was a language barrier.

Suffice it to say: It might not be easy to get the software installed. I'm talking about a PC, by the way, not a mobile-phone app. But in the end, the device is good.

One thing to keep in mind: It seems to be the Livenpace software that works best, not the AI-ECG Analysis software.

[Corazon17 in reply to Ppiman]

How long does it take for redness to develop?

Hospitals may ask you to lie still, but that's probably for the convenience of the operators. If accuracy is affected by movement, then Holter monitors would be suspect.

The print-outs I make are of the third pages of the Wellue reports.

There reports show (as you know) all kinds of info for nonstandard beats, which can number in the thousands without triggering an allegation of afib. I figure that a few dozen of these third pages will be helpful to my EP, when I see him.

And on these pages I make note of the drugs I took and the time I took them. If there was an afib episode, I make notes on what preceded it. For these reasons, a 24-hour, uninterrupted session is very useful -- except for the actual pain of that red spot.

After a few months of this, I suspect that a dispassionate analysis will reveal that nothing that I do has any effect on frequency and duration of episodes, but that my average pulse rate is much lower than it would otherwise be.

[Ppiman in reply to Corazon17]

The redness is more from removing them, in my case. It goes within a day or two. I have a slow average beat, often in the mid to late 40s.

I feel sure that nothing that I generally do affects my episodes (i.e.I am aware of no triggers). If I’m going through a sensitive period like now, just walking upstairs will give me AF but only for maybe a minute. It’s most odd.

Steve

[Corazon17 in reply to Ppiman]

My redness is already there before I pull off the electrode. Sometimes there is a slight accumulation of white goo that is not evident when the thing is first applied. This is for the batch I bought after using up the electrodes that I got from Wellue, which did not give me this problem.

[Ppiman in reply to Corazon17]

On elf mine had that "goo" but I thought to was the Wellue patches. You must have some kind of allergic response. It's a shame when that happens as finding what it is in the adhesive that causes it would be impossible.

Steve

[Cliff_G]

You're obviously reacting to the new electrodes. I bought 3M Red Dot when the originals ran out, and they're fine for me.

As to gaps and buzzing when using the chest strap, it's losing then re-making contact. When I use the chest strap I wet my skin first and the contact areas with a lot of saliva. No gaps in the trace, and when I take it off I often find it has slightly stuck to the skin, which clearly means it had good contact.

[Corazon17 in reply to Cliff_G]

Yes, I should do that wetting, too. I actually used the pasties with the strap position, thinking the tracings might be better.

Have you an opinion on which position (above or below) is better for accuracy?

I would hope that the above position is not much better, for the sake of people who can't use the low position.

[Cliff_G]

I think you have to try the different positions for yourself and see. I find the strap tends to give larger waves. Also with the electrodes, at night lying on my left side the waves get really small. I don't know what a cardiologist would recommend, I may ask my EP at the next appointment. Wellue recommend the stick-on electrodes.

I wouldn't use the stick-ons underneath the strap as you can't guarantee they will contact each other properly - that may be part of the problem you're seeing

[Corazon17 in reply to Cliff_G]

I have used the stick-ons at the strap position, but by themselves.

My problem with the strap is that it slightly disengages at times, thus ending one session, and then quickly reengages, starting a new session. The buzzing of these events wakes me up at night, but is not detected by my bedmate (so far). It's also creepy to be rudely reminded of my frailty.