Hi all, my dad developed persistent AF this summer and was also diagnosed with Heart failure. I have put all his details on my profile. He is also anaemic and gastroenterologist has said its probably because he is on Apixaban after proper consideration and procedures. I understand that success rate of catheter ablation is 50% in those with persistent AF and some studies show that recurrence rate of AF after ablation those with anaemia is high.
I am confused about what benefit ablation gives to those patients
where ablation was not successful or where it is initially successful but AF returns. Does anyone know whether the AF would be as bad as it is now or will the ablation have some sort of benefit like may be it only returns occasionally (paroxysmal rather than persistent).
The post procedure recovery seems very difficult when chances of success are low so it would really help to understand this.
Written by
priya_uk
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
An ablation could potentially help his heart failure. But because he's persistent a fib you might have better results with a surgical ablation versus catheter ablation.
Some here have had good results with Mr Steven Hunter, at keyhole heart clinic or Northern General Sheffield .
Per your bio, your Dad is 72 and his heart rate and blood pressure are being controlled.
Ablations often differ in outcomes due to many factors.
I think it would be best to insure he is under the best care possible from an experienced cardiologist and/or an Electrophysiologist (EP). In consult, they can give the best advice on the benefits/success rate of an ablation in his particular circumstances.
Thanks. He is already under the care of EP but difficult to get another appointment soon so I thought if anyone on this forum has experience of unsuccessful ablation, they might shed light on whether it's still beneficial or partly successful.
I think you need to define ‘unsuccessful’. I don’t think there is benefit unless there is a successful outcome and with AF it cannot really be partially ‘successful’.
My fist ablation made things a lot worse, I ended up in acute cardiac ward. 2nd (yes I still went back for a 2nd as I couldn’t live with the AF as was) gave me 3 years free of AF but I was 10 years younger than your father’s current age and quite fit at that stage, apart from AF. I had a hard time following ‘successful’ ablation as the drugs and the procedure exacerbated another condition which left me in far worse health so last 10 years have not been great but I now have very low AF burden 2% following pacemaker.
On the other hand, I know personally of at least 3 friends who had ablations in the late 70’s, recovered well and had no further episodes to date - approx 12-18 months. All were very fit, playing golf or ex-runners/cyclists with no other conditions and excellent lifestyles - good sleep, excellent nutrition, exercised regularly, never smoked and very moderate alcohol intake.
The longer I am a member of this forum (11 years now) the more I realise there is no ‘typical’ patient, we all have so many different variables that it’s almost impossible to advise , you have to rely upon the resources available and accessible to you, in your area and mostly for AF, very unfortunately, in UK that often means seeking private consultations and knowing the ‘right’ questions to ask of your doctor.
What does your father think? How symptomatic is he? Is he prepared and fit enough to undergo an invasive procedure and recover?
Thank you that's really helpful and I'm trying to address the same questions with my father. From my side, giving him some realistic expectations of possibilities and what is to come will equip him better to make a decision. It may be a routine procedure but recovery can be tough if you are not in good physical health.
Here's my experience regarding the two ablations I've had (no aneamia):
First in 2009 for PAF. Was told post procedure that it would need to be done again. However this drastically reduced the frequency of bouts to one or two a year. Progressively got more frequent resulting in ablation number two 10 years later.
Same result for the next 5 years.
Whilst the ablations were not a total cure, I have been more than happy coping with the odd bout and getting on with my life most of the time.
That was the benefit for me and I wouldn't hesitate to have them done again despite my AF now becoming more persistent once more.
Good luck with your dad and thanks for looking out for him.
I was diagnosed with anaemia and started iron supplement at start of year. Then had cryoablation in May, so far no AF symptoms returning, so pleased with progress. Will have blood test soon to track iron/ ferritin levels, although GP decided I'm not anaemic anymore and stopped prescription (not sure on what grounds). I have read a study report about association between anaemia and AF, needs a lot more research but seems to be a definite connection. Mentioned it to arrythmia nurse, not aware of it. Another case of medics can't know it all, beware Dr Google, but there is information to be had out there!
Glad to hear this. There have been some published studies on the anaemia and ablation link for AF and it takes a while and several studies before medics acknowledge them and consider them in practice. However your case is a great example of success and a really positive outcome.
I was in a vaguely similar situation to your dad. I became unwell end of last year, breathless etc, saw GP early Jan, diagnosis AFib. Saw Cardiologist end Jan (we have insurance) who sent me for an echocardiogram. This showed moderate heart failure (a horrible term just means a sub optimal heart not that you're going to drop dead), severe mitral valve regurgitation and and ejection Fraction of just 28% in addition to fast persistent AF. Cardio referred me to an electrophysiologist, saw him early Feb Valve repair was discussed but the team decided to try ablation to see if calming the heart down and restoring a normal rhythm would allow the heart to heal the valve damage
Had ablation mid March, back in NSR (normal rhythm), next echo was early May, EF had gone up to 50%, nearly normal and the MR (mitral regurgitation) was mild/moderate
Next echo late August, EF now 57%, MR now just mild (this is normal as we age). Now off most drugs and feeling fit and well, I'm pretty active, 12000+ steps a day, usually 30 or so exercise minutes, cover over 5 miles most days and starting to run a little.
I am female age 63, was fit and well before all this started. Still in NSR, have challenged my heart a number of times recently, holiday, covid virus, pneumonia and flu jabs and a family death. It's still doing well after 9 months.
I have just a bit higher than average ferritin so certainly not anaemic though!
Thanks for sharing. This sounds very positive and amazing that ejection fraction went up so much after your treatment. Well done as these decisions are never easy. All the best for your health.
I was given a 50% success rate, I took it because the meds were making me into a zombie, I was extremely breathless and needed to see if I could get 'me' back, which I have done!
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Grateful for any Feedback on PVI Ablation Please
Atrial Fibrillation 
heart failure after av node ablation
Persistent Atrial Fibrillation
