Any ideas please on helping me. I have no thyroid and when my medication stopped working back after covid I became very ill. It has taken me two years to nearly get back to where I was.
Anyway I think that over medicating with T3 has caused my High Heart Rate now and dumping after breakfast.
I have normal blood pressure most of the day but my Heart rate has been around 100 or so for two months now mostly AM. I have been prescribed Bisoprolol and intend to take it PM before bed at 1.25mg. The trouble with any Beta Blocker is the fact that it decreases Thyroid medications.
Comments please.
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Thank you for your reply, interesting similar situation too. My FT3 is not quite high enough yet. I have always keep my results for year I am on Thyroid s and felt well before Covid when the batch I purchased never worked and I started falling over not realising that in 44 days my FT3 had gone from 6.06 to 2.76. I have been trying to get better since then but now have this high heart rate. I had a blood test yesterday morning and although my levels have improved I need another quarter but wanted to find out about the Bisoprolol first. I intend to take it at night about 8pm.
I know that I have caused this by messing around with T3 only etc.etc. In France NDT is banned so it's difficult getting it over here. I am pleased that you have no problems yourself and once again thank you for the reply.
What does NDT mean. I get nondestructable substance????
BBs do not reduce thyroxin.
Thyroxin level is based on your weight. Unless you take the items listed your absorption should not be affected.
My H/Rate was RAPID from the beginning when I had the stroke. It could be caused by the AF but it came together with (No meds) Stroke, AF and Thyroid Cancer.
In this 4th year check through first by ultra-sound 3 areas further down by junction of Carotidm Jugular and Lymph Nodes bed which show calcification. Calcification has a high risk of cancer in the area. Just had my 6 mth follow up CT Scan with iodine today.
Do sit down and think about your situation.
No Thyroid I have never taken T3. And as I said taking 2 Brazil Nuts a day, sArdines and beef liver added int my det once week jumped up my T3 from 3.9 to 4.3 in 2 weeks.
NDT is natural dessicated thyroid which is made from pigs' thyroid glands. The ratio of T3 to T4 is different in pigs so taking only NDT can result in too high a free T3 . This can be worked round by taking an NDT/ Levthyroxine combo which I took for many years. Despite a freeT3 that was always well in range I developed afib but my endocrinologist was very sceptical that it was the T3 that was to blame . My TSH was very low though.
But I take 2 Brazil Nuts and sardines or beef liver to raise my T3 and it worked within 2 weeks.
I found Synthroid was the best in the thyroxine range.
It is reliable, has a expiry date, sealed cannister, condensation pallet inside, 90 on each cannister. I take 125mg (2 x 50mgs and 1/2 50mg) daily and 1 hour before food,
I can keep my level constant.
I've been on it 4 years 10 mths. I have a TSH and T4 whenever I like.
Even thinking about eating pigs thyroid is a turnoff.
Introducing Diltiazem CCB I did need to add another 25mg about 4 days a month.
My father was a pig farmer and at the age of 5 when I found out that they were eaten. I never ate bacon of pork at all. At the age of 68 I started on the NDT and found that it suited me so I am happy with it.
My father was also a wholesale greengrocer so we always had nuts. I have walnuts growing in my Garden here in France but eat two Brazil nuts and 5 almonds plus two walnuts every day. These keep my HDL Cholesterol higher which is good.
My thyroid was removed here in France by a professor surgeon who sent me home with a letter for the GP to say that my TSH should always be 1 or below.
Back in 2013 and most probably before the papillary cancer my TSH was 1.9.
With the risk of papillary coming back GARY CLAYMAN directs that LOW RISK PATIENTS should have a TSH level of low of normal. I guess your surgeon plugged that at 1.
My adopted daughter has 34 cysts on her thyroid. I am worried for her as she is using a 'natural' method to decrease the length of one nodule cyst @ 4.20 cms! She must be taking iodine.
Her last TSH was .05! very hyper and risk is AF, popping out eyes, fast heart, etc.
She is 51 and postponed her thyroidectomy back in July.
Her Naturalist Therapist said by Christmas this nodule should have shrunk.
i'm worried for her but she doesn't want her thyroid removed. It shows in a goitre.
I think that she should digest everything she can and then make her mind up.
Has she got Hashimotos 90% have this autoimmune factor. I haven't got it so one of the 10% without. Is she on a Gluten free diet? What about her B12, Folate and Ferritin. I had my daughter tested and she is fine, no problems.
I did have a biopsy of the lump and it showed no cancer but when it was tested after the op it showed up in the lab. I am not an expert but I hope she gets it fixed.
NDT is a medicine like any other and comes in tablets. It 's contents are guaranteed by the US Pharmacopeia. It is a complete thyroid substitute. Our thyroids make T4 T3,T2 ,T1 and calcitonin Synthroid is just a brand name for levothyroxine which is T4 only. Research has shown on animals that those with their thyroid removed givenT4 only do not achieve euthyroid status in their tissues. This is very important as it does not matter if your bloods are OK if the thyroid hormone you are taking is not acting on your tissues the same as thyroid hormone from a properly functioning thyroid would.Many people do not do well on T4 alone even with the dietary tweaks you mention. I am one of them despite eating sardines and Brazil nuts. I felt much better on a combo treatment.
TSH is manufactured in the pituitary gland in your head! Not by thyroid I read.
I have my para thyroid working as well.
I received radio active iodine treatment and being in suppression.
Gary Clayman doesn't mention decessitated pig's liver. It appears beef liver could be the alternative. fry and bacon = i love and given to me as a child.
1/2 Bisoprolol = 1.25 i think is helping with my head - a bit like mild vertigo.
NDT is dessicated pig thyroid not liver. Eating liver will not put right the results of a thyroidectomy! If it has a high selenium content it will be beneficial in the conversion of T4 to T3. This is why Brazil nuts are recommended - for their high selenium content. But after a thyroidectomy or a shutdown of the thyroid for any reason thyroid hormone replacement is necessary. Whether this is synthetic T4 alone, synthetic T4 plus synthetic T3 or NDT should depend on what the patient feels best on without being overmedicated. Sadly this is not the case and most people are given synthetic T4 only on which a good proportion struggle.
I looked up about % but I don't understand it all really.
It will be easy to bring up my T3 with more intake of selenium.
But actually halving my 2.5mg Bisoprolol has improved my head. Picking up a ping pong yesterday I had no problems and reaction at the table was better.
Have you been getting hold of NDT or taking Cynomel only which is prescribed here in France? For many years I took an NDT /Levothyrox combo whilst not taking my prescribed Cynomel , importing the Armour via friends in the UK. Why do you say your freeT3 is not high enough? If you have symptoms of hyper then raising it more would not help. Beta blockers can effect the conversion of T4 to T3 but if you are already taking T3 this should matter less.
I had my Thyroid removed years ago and have been taking 2.25 grains of Thyroid s NDT and some years 2.5 grains to feel well. In fact very very well indeed.
I am prescribed T3 here FOC and Levo I don't take either as I take Thyroid s which I buy myself. I have all of the past blood test results so know the % through the range and the optimal FT4 to FT3 ratio to feel well.
I haven't got any symptoms of Hyper. My Ft 3 needs to be around 6 plus in the range and my FT4 around 19.
I was asking about the Biso I had heard that it reduced FT4 conversion to FT3.
The new batches of Thyroid are are less potent especially after Covid and made many people ill. Thank you for your reply.
I used to do the same but I took one grain of NDT and 50mcg of Levo. Why do you think the NDT has become less potent since covid? What brand do you get? My husband still takes NDT but hasn't had a blood test for awhile now.
Well because I had been taking NDT Thyroid s for years. After Covid and starting a new bottle 44 days later I started falling over. I had a blood test and my FT4 and FT3 were so low that's why. FT3 had gone from 6.06 to 2.76 in 44 days. I had old ones left and after only 10 days on these started to walk again and feel well. Then they ran out.
Batches from 22 never worked but I now have this years batch which is going to be fine Wednesday my levels were nearly back up to normal. I have no Thyroid so messing about for two years has caused the high heart rate.
The Thyroid s well many people take 3 plus a day now. I took 2.25 grains for years sometimes 2.5 grains they vary slightly.
I would be interested to know what brand you take and where you source it. If you do not wish to state this on an open thread please PM me. I am a bit cross because the latest batch I ordered for my husband had a rather quick expiry date after they arrived.
I've been taking Levo for 4 plus years. I am also on Diltiazem and Bisoprolol. I haven't experienced much change. It usually minus 25 of the 125mg 3-4 days each month.
There was a bit of a change in Biso when it changed from grey to white pills.
Also with Diltiazen when I had to take the Accord alternative for 5 months in NZ.
Raising your hyper is less and less marker of TSH. below TSH0.5.
my CT SCAN WITH IODINE wasn't going to happen if my TSH was hyp;er.
If I could get more energy please.
SURGEON says not experienced in heart matters and heart specialist says not experienced in thyroid cancer or thyroid matters but why don't i have both in my TRIAGE TEAM in deciding matters?
I had an NHS endo.appointment yesterday as my GP was concerned that my high HR was being caused by ‘over medication on Levothyroxine’. I have had Long Covid for over 4 1/2 years now with high BP/HR, some breathlessness etc and was diagnosed last Jan. with a tilt table test as having ‘postural hypotension’. Unfortunately all specialists from cardios and respiratory had signed me off as they could not find anything wrong with ecgs, echocardiogram, 24hour BP monitor, chest X-rays and breathing tests, leaving me on 5 hypertensive drugs, which the Falls consultant with TTT wanted to remove from me but again signed me off to GP. So he was left with someone still it with HR/BP not right and came to the conclusion it was a thyroid problem. Endo has said not, and kept me on 100 levo/ 15 T3 combo. But I have had full hypothyroidism for 18 years, subclinical hypo/Hashi for 22, so huge range of blood tests proving need for this dosing…he thought cardio/ vascular problems very likely Long Covid, or possibly made worse by combo diabetes, age etc comorbidities! Incidentally the beta blocker, bisoprolol was the first drug the Falls consultant removed from me. The endo I saw was Dr Salman Razvi who is a clinician/ academic in Newcastle/ Gateshead and has a particular interest in thyroid disease and cardio vascular problems…so look up his numerous papers. Incidentally on my vast searchers of papers I only found propranolol to cause problems with thyroid hormone ‘drugs’ not bisoprolol, not that it means it doesn’t!
Well many reasons mostly due to the fact that I have two children, Jess has no children, and if I die first under French Law he would have to move out after one year my half plus extra would be left to my children. It's very complicated French succession law.
We are unmarried and were going to do a PACS here or get married but because I was adopted and it took over seven years to me to obtain a Carte Vitale because of this fact we are leaving. It cost me of 500 euros back in 2015 to collect all the correct information but it's difficult here. They even asked me to find my original Judge apart from the fact that he had been dead for years and years.
Logic and France there is none I am afraid. Anyway, Durham here we come, not so nice as Salisbury maybe, better. Good to here from you I hope you are keeping well.
You can get round the French succession problem quite easily. We did. My husband has children by a previous marriage. If you get married in France you choose your marriage contract and pick Communauté Universel which allows you to leave everything to your spouse and children only have the right to inherit once that spouse dies too. If like us you were married in England you are deemed to have a different type of marriage contract which does not allow this but all you have to do is go to the notaire and change the contract which is what we did.
I do know about that but the fact is that I am adopted and in France adoption is different.
I have various names too which they hate, it took me over seven years to obtain my Carte Vitale because my names are different on my Birth and Adoption certificates. They asked for a letter from the original judge, he had been dead for over 40 years, but that's France for you.
My sister has lived here since the eighties but she wasn't adopted so easy.
In September 2019 at 2am I experienced "REAL BAD SORE HEAD".
I went to loo and then went back to sleep I did not look in the mirror.
At 5.30am didnt make loo, showered and looked in the mirror.
Airlifted by helicopter, I was diagnosed with Stroke, Embollic type, Rapid and Persistent AF and 4th day with a Carotid Arteries Test a shadow on my Thyroid.
I had Thyroid Cancer Papillary. Carotid Arteries clear.
So the Thyroid problem caused the AF which caused the Stroke.
I have no symptoms except for tiredness and need to stop walking within 20 yds.
Diltiazem 120mg CD AM has controlled my Rapid H/Rate Day and Night my normal is 47avg bpmBisoprolol 2.5 (just reduced to 1.25) for BP.
I changed my Thyroxine from budget bulk buy to Synthroid. I can keep a regular level of TSH 1.7 which my Surgeon wants me at for over 4 years plus. We follow Top USA Thyroid Surgeon Gary Clayman. He wrote ATLAS OF HEAD AND NECK.
I don't take T3 but I can boost it by taking 2 Brazil Nuts daily. Or Sardines, or Beef Liver.
Are you taking your T4?
My levels are TSH 1.7. T3 4.3 . T4 22.
My Thyroglobin serum is 1.2
My Thyroglobin antibodies 14
I started with Levo... but bulk buy of chemists to Synthyroid 125mg daily before breakfast of 1 hour.
I can also take 50mg x 2.1/2 pills @ 50mg as I have an allergy to the colour of 100 & 25mg. 50s are plain. I take them under tongue and let them dissolve.
Licourice, soy, seaweed, greens keep low, miso, (feta OK) but other spongy cheese - made from soy beans all interfere with your meds. No milk or iron products for 4 hours.
Why did you have your thyroid out - in full, 1 lobe only, lymphs etc. Was it cancer?
Do you have AF?
My symptoms were aligned to Rapid H/Rate .. BBs hopeless. CCB Diltiazem 120mg CD AM reduced H/Rate to 60s from 156 Bisoprolol only. With me, Bisoprolol is best to control BP and has only a little affect on H/Rate. I take 1.25mg Night.
Some answers would be helpful to help you.
I prefer Synthroid because - reliable on dose, expiry date, kiddy lock, condensation thing inside., sealed each 90 pills, easy to tilt out.
Thanx and welcome. I am 4 plus years dwn the track of no thyroid.
Important is your
TSH, T3 , Total T4
Thyroglobin Serum
Thyroglobin antibodies
Be patient whilst we hope to assist you on passed experiences.
Thank you I had my thyroid removed back in 2015 here in France they only remove the whole gland. I never had any problems prior but walking up hill I suddenly couldn.t breathe went to the GP had a scan and it showed a lump on the thyroid which had moved my trachea. It was found to have papillary cancer like yours.
I was started on 100 levo and after about 6 months could hardy move, anyway I joined the thyroid site and started myself on NDT Thyroid s which suited me. Normal BP and HR for years until just after Covid when they changed the Thyroid s i.e. less potent.
I have no Hashimotos or any thing else so different from most. Anyway I am moving in the right direction now my new blood test is better and I have started my Biso PM 1.25mg
I am so sorry that you have gone through everything you sound so positive too.
Looking at your results your FT4 is 22 and your FT3 is only 4.3 Divide the 22 by 4.3 and the ratio is much too high to feel well. Yours is 5.11 mine has to be around 3,5 to feel well.
I think you need to raise you FT3 up to at least 5 to 6 plus to feel well. Maybe add a little T3 to your Levo that would help you feel better.
Good Morning, welcome to the Forum, I am positive all the Members will offer their advice based upon their own experiences, however, if you would like to contact one of the Patient Services Team, they are here to offer support and information: heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...
You can only be guided by your doctors who will try the best options given the lack of natural thyroid hormones. The beta blocker given is usually bisoprolol and that is taken once a day. Taking it in the mornings is recommended as, after a very few days, the blood levels become what are called "steady state" thanks to the body's metabolism so there will be no peaks and troughs.
No you can take matters into your own hands . Conventional hypothyroid treatment these days is mostly crap - probably because 90% of the sufferers are women who are often dismissed by doctors as anxious whining hypochondriacs. Despite research done more than 2 decades ago showing that thyrodectomised animals given T4 treatment alone do not achieve euthyroid status in their tissues we are told that synthetic T4 treatment alone is all we need and if we still have symptoms of hypo then that is in our anxious little heads because look - your blood tests are fine and that's all we go by.
Ah - I wasn't clear enough. I meant my comment to refer only to heart treatments. I know little about thyroid illness. I have known a few people and currently know two well with it. I remember one late relative having hers treated and it was a transformation for her. A friend's son, though, now in his early 60s, is much less well, and it seemed a bad dose of covid upset his thyroid levels. Even two years' on, he is struggling to feel normal.
I wonder whether one problem with treating thyroid is, like sugar levels, BP and EF, that no one likely knows what the normal level was for an individual before they became ill, making treatment hit and miss? Different countries seem to have varying ideas of when thyroid levels need treating, too.
I went to Table Tennis yesterday. Well SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT.
I have taken 1./2 2.50mg so 1.25mg.
My head was far better no stopping to get my head back. Great. Won a few points too. They are 'hard' on me and I don't get the 'at you' action. yet. MOVE JOY.
So I'm feeling pleased that I finally acted with still nothing from Heart Specialist.
And so many side effects to start taking Sotelol.
Feeling happier. On taking BP it drops down to 108 / 62 sometimes during taking it 4 times with 5-10 minute spaces even on 1.25mg PM.
Ok, well I took 1.25 PM and my heart rate has reduced by about 12 points this morning.
I have to take my Thyroid Meds at 6am am. So this appears to be working. I will wait and see what happens. After a few weeks I hope to reach the steady state you talk about.
I have low thyroid since my 20s and take .75 mcg of levothyroxine. My mother, born in 1924 was told by her doctor to keep upping her thyroid dose until she felt anxious, and being of a very calm temperament, she wound up on 4 mcg of levothyroxine and died at 93. Anyway, my dose seems low by comparison, and I never worried about it. My friend, who goes to a naturopath, is on whole thyroid pills, called Armour Thyroid here, but a small amount. Whole thyroid pills were not available for a couple of months, and she was quite anxious about it, but we could never figure out how much synthroid would be equivalent. I do wonder whether I'd feel better on whole thyroid. I'm not exactly energetic.
You would have to try them. When on NDT I felt very very well for years. Yoga, Swimming, Walking all these with no problem. It's how you feel plus the blood tests.
As a hypothyroid/Hashi for over 2 decades I got covid and subsequently Long Covid over 4 1/2 years ago…the main and lingering symptoms being high BP, HR and later oddly ‘postural hypotension’ on standing. I have been on 5 simultaneous hypertensives, until the diagnosis with tilt table test for PH in Jan.when the beta blocker bisoprolol was the first to be removed as inappropriately stopping the HR rising to compensate for plummeting BP! I have been signed off all specialists, cardio, respiratory, as various tests ( echocardiogram, ecgs, 24 hr BP, breathing tests, X-rays) are ok, but the high HR : frequent 100+ at rest, 130s standing or doing task, has concerned the GP and he has insisted it’s ’overmedicated on Levothyroxine’ despite the fact that my FT4/3 are in 40-50%. I take T3 (15 mcg divided into 3) which he knows about, as he refereed me to private endo, and have a do my own private Frees testing…all of which he doesn’t understand, and insisted I saw a nhs endo. I had not noticed LC effecting my hypothyroidism etc as such, but possibly the various mins/ vits. Got to see endo. this week, one who specialises in thyroid problems with particular interest in cardiovascular effects, on which he is well published. Spent 45 mins with him going through very thorough med.history and he was convinced no way my levo. ( or T3) was responsible for high HR…it was likely the Long Covid! Anyway just saying covid has a lot to answer for re.HR, but high FT3 might be considered a contributor.
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