Lion's Mane a catch up: I did say (yes... - Atrial Fibrillati...

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Lion's Mane a catch up

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer
43 Replies

I did say (yes Ducky I remembered) that I would update re taking Lions Mane and warfarin. Well over the last month there does not appear to have been much change in my INR as a result of taking Lions Mane powder and my INR has remained fairly stable. If anything it is very sightly lower but that may be due to the mountains of Kale my beloved likes to heap on my plate. (At least its not sprouts!)

I will continue to monitor as normal but for now it appears that despite dire warnings from some quarters it is a non event.

And no AI involved let alone human intelligence. lol 😂

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BobD profile image
BobD
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43 Replies
Cliff_G profile image
Cliff_G

What is the reason for trying Lion's Mane, Bob?

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer in reply toCliff_G

Widely reported benefits regarding wellbeing and possible prevention of dementia (hence the joke abut remembering).

As reccommended by Lisa on Clarkson's Farm no less. (Now I'm really taking the P. )

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toBobD

Hi

I've recently had my Pituiary Gland after PET Scan from Top to Toe.

No signs of Dementia bearing diagnosis.

Parents never had Dementia so I can safely discount that happening.

cherio JOY. 75. (NZ)

Desertflowerchild profile image
Desertflowerchild in reply toJOY2THEWORLD49

I'm glad that you got the all clear, but not having parents affected by dementia is no guarantee. My 59 year old half-sister is perhaps only weeks (to a few months) away from death due to early onset Alzheimer's that began to affect her badly enough by 52 years of age that she had to retire. No sign of Alzheimer's or any dementia in her parents or grandparents, although my little sister inherited an APOE4 gene from both parents. Our mother is almost 95 years old and still has a great memory/mind.

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toDesertflowerchild

Hi

It was a test for Pituitary Gland due to Pet Scan showing warm.

So they checked others on the list!

I've nursed Altzheimer residents and living with tham must be hard.

On our NZ RNZ programme they are talking about those diagnosed with dementia under 65. What appropriate help was available - none. And husband Dr looking after wife then had a stroke himself.

Told he would need to sell their house to get her into residential care.

After 65 different one can stay in house. Free residential care for other.

Oh dear. cheri jOY

Desertflowerchild profile image
Desertflowerchild in reply toJOY2THEWORLD49

My sister had to go into memory care 2 years ago and hospice about 4 months ago. The care has been costing over $100,000 a year . In essense my brother-in-law's complete salary pays for the residential care and he lives off what he can make on the side from an airbnb. Alzheimer's is brutal, beginning with the diagnosis.

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toDesertflowerchild

Hi

Oh Dear your brother-in-law is a saint.

I expect all around her is thankful that it hasn't become a very prolonged disease.

A friend wife, my friend over 65 was transferred to a residential home. He lives in her home on Maori land with her folks trying to get him out. But they can't under her wishes.

Medical studies continue to be mistified why alzheimer happens.

I nursed a Dr in UK so terribly troubling.

Why does it still cost in hospice?

My brother tried to register my mum into a mental care home in a 'locked secure room'. I had looked after Mum and had the label alzheimer removed.

The generic specialist laughed and told everyone in the waiting room that in no way was she diagnosed correctly. She was 'hard at hearing'. She got her hearing aids later.

Yes she could count back from 100, know the date, the prime minister, nd her birthday

Careful diagnosis should not be made as my Mum learnt that my Dad had died in hospital.

Dementia also is different from Alzheimers.

cheri JOY.

Desertflowerchild profile image
Desertflowerchild in reply toJOY2THEWORLD49

My brother-in-law has been wonderful. They had a great love. He definitely feels that he and his wife were robbed of time together. These years have aged him so so much.

Maybe medicare does pay the hospice care or some part of it. I had just assumed the cost was like the memory care situation, where it fell all on him. I hope medicare pays some.

Quite a history with your mum!

mjames1 profile image
mjames1

Before anyone tries to roar like Bob😊, here's a caution from WebMD.

Medications that slow blood clotting (Anticoagulant / Antiplatelet drugs) interacts with LION'S MANE MUSHROOM

Lion's mane mushroom might slow blood clotting. Taking lion's mane mushroom along with medications that also slow blood clotting might increase the risk of bruising and bleeding.

This may not be as important to Bob and others who take warfarin since their INR is monitored. However, it could affect those on anticoagulants and/or anti-platelet meds where our clotting time is not monitored.

Jim

Desertflowerchild profile image
Desertflowerchild in reply tomjames1

There seems to be a whole host of foods, spices and herbs that can affect the bioavailability of different DOACs. I'm on apixaban.

A study out of Italy says: "The presence of a high amount of insoluble and soluble dietary fiber significantly decreased DOAC bioavailability," and that " herbal teas, turmeric , St John’s wort and other herbal products (Chinese herbs, ginger, ginkgo biloba) potentially modify apixaban exposure ." The Cleveland clinic reports grapefruit juice, lime juice, oats, mangoes and wild blueberries may increase the levels of apixaban in your system and chamomile, rosemary, garlic, cinnamon, ginger may affect (up or down) the levels. And, on top of these, if I look up other individual items, like pomegranates for instance or Lion's Mane as you reported, we find they are also contraindicated.

As a vegan who practices whole food plant based eating, I consume a high fiber diet and I consume many of the above listed items on weekly or even daily basis. When I was on simvastatin, I did stay away from grapefruit, reluctantly, but the list of potential restrictions with apixaban is just way too much. Now if the restrictions were for Orio cookies, boxed Mac & Cheese, and animal carcasses, I would not have a problem, but oats, blueberries, mangoes, rosemary, garlic, cinnamon and ginger. . .they've got to be kidding! (Oh and Lion's Mane mushrooms are wonderfully delicious air-roasted with a bit of olive oil, tamari, garlic and ginger or olive oil, tamari, garlic and French herbs.)

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer

If you think it does you good, it does you good 👍

You’re a sensible person (well most of the time) and you can self monitor.

I wonder if AI has an anti clotting algorithm 🤔

Paulbounce profile image
Paulbounce in reply toCDreamer

Hi CD. You wrote...

I wonder if AI has an anti-clotting algorithm

Not just yet but given time it might.

Paul

Chatty answered...

AI can be used to analyze medical data and identify patterns that may be associated with blood clots. This can be done through a variety of methods, including machine learning and deep learning.

Machine learning algorithms can be used to identify patterns in large datasets of patient data. These patterns can then be used to identify patients who are at risk of developing blood clots.

Deep learning algorithms can be used to analyze images of blood vessels and identify patterns that may be associated with blood clots. This can be useful for diagnosing blood clots in patients who are at high risk.

AI is still a relatively new technology, and there is much research being done to explore its potential uses in the field of medicine. However, it is clear that AI has the potential to play a significant role in the diagnosis and prevention of blood clots

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply toPaulbounce

Was said TIC.

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toCDreamer

Hi

And we need to remember that natural foods, herbs are usually safeky elininated WHEREAS SUPPLEMENTS are not but can build up to make very toxic results.

A friend took colladal silver liquid form for her throat problem. It built up and she was rushed to hospital.

As a Natureopath she did not do her careful checks.

cherio JOY

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49

Hi

I thought on Warfarin you need to take the same amount daily otherwise it will upset your bloods and the amount of anti-co.agulant.

Unless beloved piles kale or any other greens on a daily basis it is not doing a STABLE job.

Your blood test will be all over the place.

cherio JOY. 75. (NZ)

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer in reply toJOY2THEWORLD49

Actually the more Vit K you have the more stable you will become. It is for this reason that many people take supplimentary Vit K. OK it may mean your warfarin dose is larger than before but that is of no consequnece. The percentage of Vit K from diet is reduced. My INR has been 100% in range for more than two years.

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toBobD

Hi

Interesting. I calculated it the other way.

If you eat more Greens - you need less WARFARIN as you are already 'anti.co-agulanting your blood through your heap of greens'!

I have two reasons not to have a lot of greens.

1. As I take thyroxin for a thyroidectomy

2. Because I am on Pradaxa a modern anti-co.agulant.

The 1. point is because of the iodine in the greens.

Am I wrong. Too much and thin your blood too much .. so to speak.

cherio jOY

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer in reply toJOY2THEWORLD49

Vit K promotes clotting.. Sorry you got it wrong. Warfarin is a Vit K antagonist .

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toBobD

Hi

So is having greens stop the role of your Warfarin.

cherio JOY

Singwell profile image
Singwell

What benefits have you noticed Bob from taking this supplement?

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer in reply toSingwell

My wife says I'm more cheerful and laugh more easily.

pusillanimous profile image
pusillanimous in reply toBobD

That's the mushroom part🤣

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer in reply topusillanimous

My dustbins full of Toadstools cos there's not mushroom in it. (Lonny Donegan 1960)

pusillanimous profile image
pusillanimous in reply toBobD

🤣🤣🤣

Cavalierrubie profile image
Cavalierrubie in reply toBobD

Wild thing !!!!!!!! ( The Troggs 60’s) ROARING hit. 😂😂😂

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toBobD

Hi

Ha ha.

cherio JOY

Singwell profile image
Singwell in reply toBobD

I'll have some ofwhat he's having 😉

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply toBobD

Or maybe you grimace less over your mountains of kale!

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer in reply toAuriculaire

Actually quite like it. Better than broccoli!

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply toBobD

I'm not sure I've ever eaten kale. I love broccoli but not keen on sprouts . They are the only veg I put butter on!

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toAuriculaire

Hi

You want, need young kale. Older, thick kale is ugh.

You can make kale chips out of them! Dry them out in the oven. Burnt - no way.

cherio JOY

Jelf0 profile image
Jelf0 in reply toAuriculaire

Modern sprouts are nothing like the ones I turned my nose up at in the 1950's. The agriculturalists and farmers have consistently been breeding the fiery and bitter ingredients out of them. The same with apples; I stew grated apples in the microwave, no additions whatsoever. From which you can deduce that A) they have more sugar in themB) more water

C) less fruit acid

I haven't worked out if any part of my diet promotes aFib.

Cavalierrubie profile image
Cavalierrubie in reply toAuriculaire

You should try it Auriculaire. It’s very moreish and full of iron, The only downside, for me, is that l like it with melted butter! just as a treat now and again! Yummy.

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply toCavalierrubie

I probably would but Mr A is very fussy about brassicas and I'd bet wouldn't. He doesn't care for broccoli but loves cauliflower and I am the opposite. He puts butter on broccoli and spinach as well as sprouts . We eat quite a lot of brassicas so I'm wary of introducing any more.

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toAuriculaire

Hi

Can you change it to olive oil.

But I see what you mean 'tasty NZ butter".

Salt or no salt in butter?

cherio jOY

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply toJOY2THEWORLD49

No French butter. Olive oil is for salads and some cooking. I put lemon juice on spinach ,broccoli and green beans.

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toAuriculaire

Hi

Aw NZ butter best!

I learnt yesterday that lemon is acidic but lime is akaline!

Rung the Chemist and told her about the new white Bisoprolol. I feel so much better, vision is so much better - not drowsy, and no more head unsteady when I close my eyes.

I feel like a new person. But BP still dipping down to 108/62 occasionally.

Its raining so dog coat for JAZ.

Still awaiting result of CT Scan.

Olive Oil is sooooo. good for you.

cheri JOY

Cyclejoan profile image
Cyclejoan

🤣🤣🤣

SkyBluePInk47 profile image
SkyBluePInk47

Interesting, thank you!

Are you on a blood pressure medication?

I miss my Mushroom tea (has Lion’s Mane in it) and I have only had Mushroom coffee once since being on Metoprolol Succ. I have been a bit nervous to drink them or some other herbal teas.

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toSkyBluePInk47

Hi

If you can get yourself checked out on if you take more than 47.75mg Metoprolol. Didn't do much for my heart rate ..186 Day and showed pauses at night on a 24-hr Heart Monitor.

Its banned from my list.

Bisoprolol was a little better @ 156 but still not controlling my RAPID AF. Persistent.

Then a private heart specialist introduced CCB Diltiazem. 180mg too much so 3 years now 120mg CD morning.

Bisoprolol 2.5mg NIGHT for BP.

Do separate your meds, AM and PM. ACE % BB and BB and CCBs.

cherio JOY

SkyBluePInk47 profile image
SkyBluePInk47 in reply toJOY2THEWORLD49

Hi thanks for your detailed information! I am on 12.5 mg once a day and it’s made my bp too low. My bp was already on normal to low normal before I started the Metoprolol. resting pulse was low 50’s to 60 ish bpm. Only time my heart took off was if I went into A-Fib or sometimes random tachycardia. I feel light headed when my bp drops to 89/58 or so. I wonder if it drops lower while I sleep? My pulse feels too slow unless I am moving around a lot. I get bloated, can’t eat much since on this medication. I mean even a few bites of food. I have A hiatal hernia (born with and inherited). I suspect I have delayed emptying of stomach. And this medication is making it worse?

I am not on any other heart medications at moment. I don’t get a-fib often but get tachycardia more. This BP medication makes my heartbeat louder in my ear even if my heart isn’t thumping/pounding.

I have pulsatile tinnitus which makes me hear my heartbeat 24/7 in left ear. I was able to get used to that but now it is way louder since on this bp medication.

I will phone the nurse next week. I am currently wearing a 14 day heart monitor, so they will see what my heart has been doing, soon. I haven’t had any known A-fib while using the monitor. I asked for a 30 day monitor but was told 14 day was OK. I disagree with that because my a-fib is not every day so I felt there could be a better chance of it possibly happening in 30 days VS 14. Maybe doctor gets rewarded more by ordering the expensive one (that costs me $500 out pocket plus doctor’s consultation cost on top of that).

Enough to cause cardiac arrest when I see the bill! lol

JOY2THEWORLD49 profile image
JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply toSkyBluePInk47

Hi

I had 3 x 24hr Heart Monitors in 1 year when med was tested Metoprolol and then change to Bisoprolol and then finally the introduction to CCB Diltiazem.

The ? is why are you on Metoprolol when you have low BP and pulse.

It will be interesting to see if it is giving you pauses!

You do need a complete revision on that med.

Some have AF come and go without any meds. They ride it out.

AF can be caused by inflammation in your body. Where? Only a PET scan can tell you and the Dr and Specialist.

Mine showed Johnson & Johnson sharp mesh inflammation gone but my left biceps showed on. In 2014 I had a meniscus cut out of my left knee - a full thickness tear not showing on 2 x MRIs but surgeon said worst tear he has ever seen.

It would drip down my leg via the muscle.

Otherwise scarring of the bladder I'm unusually healthy except 3 areas calcified 2 lymph nodes and the thymus need closer examination. Followup 2nd CT Scan on Wednesday.

Another is worrying.

Don't.

Cherio JOY. 75. (NZ)

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat

there’s nothing wrong with sprouts bob and I’m having nothing bad said about them.😂

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