Well, after a couple of years AF free, it's back. I was wondering what early symptoms everybody gets a while, even as long as a day, before an attack happens?
I had an aching neck and shoulders and was very hot when I went to bed last night and woke to my heart bouncing around. I don't know whether it was a dream that triggered it or something else as I was very upset to see my sister who has cancer and has recently had a stroke. I haven't seen her for a month or so, but she seems have become more fragile in this short time. I will be interested to find out what happens to you?
Best wishes.
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bassets
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l think it would undoubtedly be the upset at seeing your sister and how she has deteriorated. I am so sorry. I had a break from AF for nearly 18 months and it came back with a vengeance. I had a family misunderstanding with my sister, which l found upsetting and which l am sure contributed to the return of AF. You don’t say how old you are, but as we get older, upsets seem to have more impact on our well being and constitution. I don’t have any warning of an attack of AF. It is so unpredictable for me. You don’t say if you are on medication, but l would just revert to what l did before until it settles down again.
Thank you. I'm 71 and still taking a small amount of meds after an ablation almost 3 years ago. I think you may be right and stress is the cause. I hope you are doing well now.
Thank you. We can’t control most of the awful things that can happen in life and it gives us many ups and downs. I hope it soon settles for you, but you must be worried about your sister. Perhaps go and speak to your GP if it goes on. Perhaps you need to up your meds. for a while. Take care and let us know how you are.
Cavalierrubie, this is so true. I have often thought about this. It seems that any kind of stress that comes about to raise your heart rate has a very negative effect with this afib.
I agree totally with Cavalierrubie that any shock or upset we experience, that makes us feel emotionally down in life, can certainly be a cause of AF attacks..
That’s the best advice to be calm… it’s easy for us all to say calm down but when we get the tap on the door from AF our mind takes over. I’m better now than before after I read a book about the correct way to breath and the controlled breaths through the nose really make a difference. I’ve even noted how when I focus during a brisk walk I can reduce my HR down a little. It’s called Breath by James Nestor. Hopefully this is just a blip and you’ll be back in NSR soon!
I’ve been in permanent Afib for about the past 3years. Have learned to live with it. Just do as much as I can. The Medics don’t seem to be interested in me anymore . I’m now 86
Have they been able to control your Heart Rate with drugs? If that’s possible then any damage to heart is reduced. It’s trying to find some quality of life if possible. There’s someone on this Forum that has a friend in their mid 90’s living with AF. Ive had this on and off for 31 years with only 10 episodes in that time with 4 of those in the last 2 years. I know it’s progressive condition and hope I can delay the permanent AF like you well into my 80’s!
I am interested in this book. What is the name of it please. I have also been wondering about a way to harness the vegan nerve which cintrols so much of our bodily functions.
Yes understanding the Vagal nerve is about a balance between your parasympathetic and sympathetic system. The book is called Breath by James Nestor I purchased from Amazon
Yes I believe stress is a big contributor to AF triggering. Most of us have it in our lives and I can only suggest for AFers you take early action to decrease stress on all fronts . Hopefully this will then leave a sufficient safety buffer when life throws us a curved ball.
Life certainly throws things at us, sorry to hear about your sister and return of your AF.
Prior to an ablation last October my AF was persistent, but certainly stress made it worse, as did the kind of high humidity levels we’ve been experiencing in UK the past few days. Now in NSR I still experience warning signals - a heaviness in my chest, the odd ectopic, a message to myself to “slow up” when I’m pushing too hard uphill. I practice box breathing when this occurs, and as a precaution practice this and other deep breathing exercises every day, whenever I notice my breathing is shallow. I still tend to think that if the AF wants to return it probably will!
I guess it’s helpful to remember that stress uses up our energy as much physical activity! And when life gets stressful we seem to push ourselves harder instead of slowing up!
Recipe for disaster! If you are experiencing hot weather you should be slowing down . It's difficult when you see things that need doing but remember the magic word - manyana. The weather forecast here is for a high of 35° today. It was already at 33° on our balcony by the time we finished a late breakfast at 9-45 . So I doubt I'll venture outside again till tonight apart from watering my tomatoes in pots - they can't wait!
It must have stressed you to see your sister looking poorly and the combination of feeing hot might have tipped you over the edge. Hope it is a one off.
Thank you, I tend to forget I have AF and start rushing, and it's always fine weather when people want to arrive. I'm not sure if I could cope with that sort of heat for any length of time! I hope it's a one-off too. Keep cool
Thanks Wilson. I think once you have been really stressed it can creep up on you again without being noticed, as though you get used to the feelings it produces. I can'[t remember what it felt like to be carefree.
bassets, words well put. I long for those days of being carefree, without feeling stressed most of the time, money, cars, crime, neighbors, health, family issues, those who don't seem to feel the pressure are truly blessed.
Very hot weather last Thursday, expecting my sister and sister-in-law to visit.Not seen them for years.Rushing day beforehand to prepare. Excited and stressed.Woke up Thursday morning and AF after a year, no obvious pre warning except possible a combination of stress and dehydration.Lasted 30 hours.
I remember when I was first diagnosed with AF, my GP told me not the become a cardiac cripple (as he put it). Worry about the things that matter and try not to get frustrated.
It's totally different for yourself with your sister and having lost my two, I know how distressing it is.
In my experience (and of many on this platform), anxiety and stress are triggers for their arrhythmia and I suspect you are the same. Have a word with your GP or contact the cardiac nurses through the BHF website for coping advice. Both worked for me.
Thanks for your reply. I've been taking flecainide for about four years, with a reduced dose after my ablation. I am in goodish health (high BP, asthma) and Ive been vegetarian for 38 years and try to be careful - no caffeine or alcohol, and not much overweight.
In the last nine months, in part by TOTALLY giving up gluten, I have lost 28 percent of my original body weight, and I have not had an arrythmia in the last five months. I have given up sugar in so far as that is possible and I do a moderate case of intermittent fasting. I also take Flecainide and Metoprol. My goal is to have lost 33 percent of my original body weight. Also, have you made up your mind that you want to put Afib in your PAST? Thanks.
Giving up gluten is a tremendously GREAT thing you can do for your cardiac health. It may take a little while for it to get completely out of your system, but you will see immediate benefits when you give it up. Gluten is known as a cause for arrythmias. Thanks.
Gluten is only known as a potential trigger for arrhythmia and AF in people whom are definitely diagnosed gluten intolerant or with coeliac disease.If you aren't gluten intolerant or have a digestive illness made worse by gluten it is unlikely to cause you Arrhythmias.
Sugar , however, and fatty or larger portions at mealtimes is a more common trigger for most people , especially when we age and our insulin sensitivity reduces because of the effect glucose changes and post meal effects on our nervous systems have on our heart rate and blood pressure.
The reason giving up wheat or gluten usually helps people lose weight is generally coincidental.
You reduce the amount of high white carb , processed and ready meals and sugary baked goods that you eat by having to give up gluten you give up the foods that make you keep weight on and affect your blood glucose and gut bacteria which make you bloated and cause stomach upsets.
Often people give up gluten but they may just be wheat intolerant. It's better to have things tested before making a decision about limiting full food groups. The same is true about making choices to cut out dairy foods.
You can just as easily improve weight , digestive and cardiac symptoms, and blood glucose control by choosing to eat sensible portions of wholegrain , soluble fibre foods that contain gluten or wheat if you don't have an intolerance to these, and concentrate more upon limiting sugar , empty white carbohydrates, and baked and processed foods to rare treats.
Partly because not eating gluten , sugar or dairy at all can cause it's own risk of triggering digestives symptoms which can bring on an AF event.
As if you accidentally or occasionally end up eating a small amount of these food groups when your body has become accustomed to not producing or releasing the enzymes in a large enough quantity to help you digest these types of foods you do end up getting a bad digestive reaction, that digestive discomfort , much like a case of acid reflux, is the cause of the trigger.
Not everyone will see benefits from giving up wheat, gluten , dairy etc in the long term unless they are foods that are proved unhealthy for them, just as not everyone will benefit from eating just a plant based diet or a meat based one. In some cases limiting foods without knowing your full health needs can cause people other health problems. So you can't really ever say going " Free From" will be universally better for everyone.
The only reason you might see immediate benefits going gluten free is because you've coincidentally had to cut out all the high sugar and processed foods from your diet which also usually contain a higher calorie content, saturated fats and artificial sweeteners too.
Thanks, a lot of useful information here. I have been thinking back to the day before AF returned. I ate salted crisps which I almost never do as I stay clear of too much salt, and ae later than normal in the evening. But I think that's all and the bread we eat is homemade and usually 50-50.
In the majority of people whom neither have digestive illnesses like Coeliac or intolerance to wheat or gluten an occasional slice of toast will not have a risk of causing arrhythmia.It's more likely, if aFib occurs., to be caused by the combination of a bread product and what you have chosen to put on it or serve alongside it. Toppings like deli meats and vegan meat alternatives, bacon , jams or spreads and layered fruit toppings increase sugar spikes and salt ingestion, or serving it alongside more carbohydrates like cereals , a big glass of juice , a smoothie or a large portion of cooked foods create a meal combination which is more likely cause the Arrhythmia than a slice of toast.
The two things that people with no intolerances to wheat or gluten need to consider in their bread choices is portion size , but also the amount of added salt or sugar the bread product contains.
As, even though we assume wholemeal or wholegrain is always going to be healthy many products , particularly well known brands can contain a large amount of sodium or added sugar for flavour.
We need to be sensible in food choices but not begin to be scared by it.
That sounds good , I was giving a general answer in relation to Pomerania 78 in relation to bread , but as you say if you can manage to make your own bread it can help people avoid the extra additives.
Just a thought, Magnesium Glycinate and Taurate along with CoQ10 have helped keep me Afib free for over 3 years. The calming effects of those supplements help with those days with anxiety.
Hi Dee I’m also on those supplements and Vit D and noted my blood levels a year ago were low in all 3 I’ve been recently updated my bloods and in a year have marginally improved. Can I ask you what doses you take?
Thanks, I take magnesium taurate and CoQ10 every day. I am wondering if my AF is just getting a bit worse again. However I'll try to keep as calm as I can and hope it will hide its head again.
Are you also on medications? If so , long term use of Magnesium and/ or CoQ10 alongside other heart rate and blood pressure lowering medications can actually make your symptoms worse.
Many prescribed medications taken to help aFib interact with these supplements and over time you can find that your heart rate and blood pressure can go to low. These can be sudden dips , quite often at night . The short interval of Bradycardia or Hypotension it causes can cause the heart to overcompensate to correct the low functioning , the sudden spike or yo-yoing of heart rate can trigger more incidents of aFib.
Taking these at the same time as your blood thinners or anticoagulants can also increase the risk of bleeding and bruising.
It's why you also need to be careful about the timing of your medications and supplements giving a 4-6 hour gap between them.
Have you tried stopping the supplements for a little while to test if that could improve how you feel?
Getting tests for Full blood count , Ferritin/ Iron, Vitamin B12 , Folate and Vitamin D and getting a copy of the test results would be a good idea to rule out insufficiency or Deficiency in any of these being an added cause of your increased symptoms as these issues do all cause cardiac symptoms of their own.
B and Folate Deficiencies can be more common as you age , if you are a vegetarian and if you take various medications and they , in turn, can cause low iron , Anaemia and Vitamin D deficiency.
Agitation and worry are a combination that sets me off. Your neck and shoulder pain could be from stress or just plain overwork; then there's your worry about your sister. It's a combination that would certainly make me vulnerable to an a-fib attack. So sorry about your sister -- it must be very upsetting to see her that way.
Thanks for your kind comments. Yes it is very upsetting as she was always so on the ball and when I was young I couldn't get anything past her! I'm hoping the ac he's and pains are just stress-related.
I hope you can find a way to relax, and hopefully when your sister stabilizes, you can get into a new routine and things can calm down. Best wishes to you and your sister.
What immediately attracted my attention were your words "I had an aching neck and shoulders and was very hot when I went to bed last night".
Now I have written before about the AF precursor neck and shoulder tension/pain I have suffered intermittently in the past. I have no doubt in my case that it is stress related, and perhaps stemming from a flare-up of my cervical arthritis, or maybe a flare-up of a dormant virus that lives in my spine (in my case polio). Regardless, before becoming aware of the links, I would get so agitated by my inability to relieve my neck tension/pain that I would cause myself so much stress that AF seemed to follow. I was inducing the AF by my reaction to the stress and tension, not so much because of the tension/pain itself. After becoming aware of this link, I now quickly take 2 paracetamol tablets which relieves the tension within 20 minutes, and this avoid the previously self-induced AF.
So please beware these "aching neck and shoulders" symptoms. 🤔
Interesting Ozz that you mention arthritis and a dormant virus. I have the same neck arthritis and dormant Epstein-Barr virus, which l somehow caught in later life, so was hospitalised. I have found that since my diagnosis of AF l have experienced more of these conditions. Add on the stress and anxiety and it’s a good recipe for flare ups. I go a few weeks ok and then a flare up of the said. Paracetamol are wonderful for tension and help to calm. I get tension headaches as well as neck and shoulder tension. It seems this AF., together with medication side effects, has a detrimental effect on those of us who have comorbidities.
Yes, I agree with your understanding. In my case the shingles/herpes virus (I've had shingles twice) is also present waiting for stress to induce a new flare-up. But no comorbidities so far thankfully.
But with my childhood polio, and my experience of these neck flare-up symptoms, I am more than interested when I read ...
"Meningitis. The polio virus can infect the meninges, which are the membranes around the brain and spinal cord. This causes a severe headache, a stiff neck, and sensitivity to light (when light hurts or bothers the eyes). Muscle weakness or paralysis."
Yes, Polio is much more serious. Epstein-Barr affects my blood and my whole body resulting in periods of extreme tiredness and flu-like symptoms. Stress is so debilitating and leads to a weakened immune system - hence your shingles and the other problems mentioned. Stress is a symptom of AF and so it can kick off an attack. Infection is a major trigger for AF and recently when l had a visit to AE with AF they checked me thoroughly for infection not just a blood test but ears, nose, throat etc. etc. The Dr. said most people that come in with AF have an infection. Incidentally, regarding shingles and the Covid vaccination. My daughter had shingles 3 times since the vaccine and l know other people who have also had shingles. Maybe because it also weakens your the immune system with the body producing antibodies. Just my theory,
Sorry to hear about your struggles with Epstein-Barr. It can be life destroying if you are "unlucky". A friend of mine had a friend who was totally incapacitated after suddenly contracting a virus, and Epstein-Barr was mentioned. Her condition just got gradually worse and she died many years before her time. Tragic!
Re your blood tests for inflammation, and for future reference, were there any specific unusual blood tests you received that I might keep in mind and investigate for myself?
No, l just had the basic checks but with AF they check for triggers in the blood, which could cause an attack such as an electrolyte imbalance and infection. Also creatine levels and troponin which indicates heart function or heart attack. Lack of vitamins and minerals affects AF (as you already know). I think it important to make sure electrolytes are in sync. , especially magnesium and vitamin B12. Any deficiency can cause an AFattack.
It’s a very weird condition with a plethora of ‘triggers’ I’ve never been able to fathom. After being in and out of all sorts of arrhythmias over the past twelve years (now 71 y), six ablations, a dozen cardioversions, and every pill in the pharmacopeia … I’ve given up trying to figure out what triggers it.
What helps me is clean living (good foods & zero alcohol), meditation (yoga and walks), deep belly breaths through the nose, and cannabis tea (I grow my own). Repeat the mantra, it won’t kill me it’s ‘only’ a QOL thing (even if I don’t believe it).
Finally, remember that senescence is built into the system (bloody entropy) and we will fall apart eventually. THAT is the true trigger.
Since you lose about half of magnesium in urine, I take enough to compensate. I also eat magnesium rich foods and take Vitamin D. So besides my magnesium rich foods, I am now on a maintenance supplement plan but I took more when I was in Afib. It took 7 weeks for me to go back into NSR. (It indicates it could take up to 8-10 weeks). My intake was split into day and night, Magnesium Taurate 120 mgs (mixed with glycinate for calmness and Malate for nerve function, and taurate for cardiovascular support) in the morning and night, 125 mgs. chelated Magnesium Glycinate twice a day. I get from Amazon "by Rhythm" called Triple Calm Magnesium which supports muscle and nerve function. I buy Chelated Magnesium Glycinate by Drs. Best. Look it up. Good luck!
The trigger can be for me when I'm stressing or even more so when I'm angry but suppressing it, my heart skips a beat and then the AF can start. But less often now I have learnt some relaxation techniques.But to illustrate the heart skip - I had a cardioversion once (before my ablations) and was happily at home enjoying the NSR, when my daughter rang and said "I've got a bone to pick with you..." I felt a sense of dread, then the heart skip and my AF started full-time again (until the second ablation.)
I have been under a lot of stress in my life and when my AF came back suddenly I was not that surprised (5 year since my ablation). Turns out that my irregular heart beat was not AF, but SVT. Check with your medical professional to make sure your AF has returned or if it is something else. I will be having an ablation for the SVT later this year.
Yes emotional stress, and physical stress preparing for a house full of family guests Xmas Eve '22 was how my PAF all began. I wasn't worried, quite happy about it but physically overdoing things ...
You ask if there are signs, I think recently I do have an inkling beforehand. When resting I feel what I call 'bobbling' or runs of ectopics and so I start deep breathing straight away and that seems to settle things and stop the full on PAF kicking in ... but it's hard to tell.
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