I notice on this Forum that most of the questions and replies are about blood pressure, heart rates and medicines. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but since I went to the emergency room nearly a year ago I have learned to ask myself some questions that I encourage everyone to ask themselves: What is the condition of my body? Have I abused my body and/or do I continue to abuse my body? What is my diet like? Do I look beyond so-called conventional medicine? Do I realize that I need to be more concerned about my health than any physician? Indeed, am I passive when it comes to my interaction with medical personnel, waiting on THEM to take care of me? What is my spiritual condition? What is my relationship with those around me? What was I doing when the Afib first appeared? And most importantly, do I want to put Afib in the rear-view mirror, or am I merely content with "managing" it?
Being honest with myself: I notice on... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Being honest with myself
for me, I initially burst out laughing when the Consultant toldme. As the months unfolded I decided to cop it sweet and manage it.
What does "cop it sweet" mean? Thanks.
Sorry - the Aussie slang in me coming out .... try " take it on the chin", i.e. grin and bear it.
Yes, I did the same for years, taking it on the chin, until my chin could not take any more, so I went ahead with the last resort available to me so to stop all meds for AF which near extinguished my ‘chin’. Of course, good to those who possess a ‘chin of steel’.👍😀😀😀
so what actually happened when you stopped. You're still here so it couldn't have been all bad. 😱😱😱
Well, I had a P/M put in and later I had an AV node ablation. AF sill there but I don' t feel its symptoms. Therefore I was able to stop the AF meds which far for help with AF were giving me terrible side effects. So far still alive and feeling much better considering my old age. 👵
Personally, l don’t think there is an answer, although it would be good to know what causes it. I don’t think the medical profession know either. I have had AF for 6 years and wondered why me? but it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack, so l try to listen to what my body is telling me, everything in moderation, good diet, moderate excercise and common sense.
Hi Cavalierrubie,
Over the months that followed my initial diagnosis I got 'into' family geneology'. Long story short ....... I found a genetic pattern within the paternal side of the family going as far back as the early 1960's which arose from the death of my paternal Grandfather .... who died from a series of strokes aged 84. Nobody alive today who can reveal the cause of the strokes ( I do recall my Dad, one of his kidz, saying he had 6 strokes of different intensities affecting different parts of the poor old boy until the last one finished him). Now interestingly, Grandads brother had a number of kidz and one ( about my age - 80 ish ) had been diagnosed with AF and was treated at Papworth. As far as I know he's still goin' good. Then, lo and behold my darling daughter adorable was diagnosed with AF in her early thirties when expecting both her daughters - at different times, with each pregnancy up popped AF. Once she stopped breeding the AF stopped. As far as I know she still practices Thai Kick Boxing. I think mentally when she kicks she thinks she is kicking AF out of her life. She is now free and clear of AF.
So, for me, my personal take is that my AF is genetic - that is - I have a genetic predisposition to AF but the actually event itself is triggered by food.
Just my thoughts that's all.
John
Hi John, l relate to that in a small way. My dad had heart problems and died of a stroke. My grandad had a stroke. I believe genetic makeup plays its part. There are different triggers for all of us and we run a mile from them don’t we, if we can. My trigger is anxiety and that is more difficult to run from. Strange that your daughter’s AF stopped after pregnancy which sounds hormonal, but then again it could have been the carrying of the children pushing everything out of place. Will the mystery of this ever be solved? We live in hope, but in the meantime, it’s as you say, grin and bear it.
It's been well documented experimentally that the heart muscle becomes more prone to arrhythmias when pulled and pushed, even slightly. The atrial wall is especially prone being so thin. This, alongside a genetic predisposition, might explain why obesity and hypertension often run alongside AF. I can imagine pregnancy causing short term effects that are similar.
Steve
I can understand that, my family on both sides have a history of embolism, strokes and heart disease. I have always tried to keep healthy but it got me anyway. I just hope my daughter, who is very health/excercise conscious manages to break the pattern.
Hi Nafi,
Having said what I have said earlier I must say that I have noticed a tendency for such medical conditions in my lot to skip a generation, every other generation but mostly it is heart stuff that is the downfall ... or in the case of my Dad, poor old bloke, mature onset diabetes.
I think the thing is to accept and understand health issues in our family and focus attention on them. For that reason I tend to focus on blood pressure and heart and also blood sugar. I can live with arthritic joint pain ( more or less ). Then there is the game of masquerades as with my AF ........ kicked off with me feeling I was going down with flu. I put myself off sick from work and stayed home, as the day went on I felt worse. Started to check my BP and over a period of 8 hours or so it had dropped from 136/80 ish down to 76/50 ish ... by the time I got to A & E my HR was 156 and I felt like the zombie from the village of the living dead.
Thus is my tale of woe. But if I hadn't been so proactive in self monitoring I'd no doubt have been in more serious trouble.
As I think I said, my daughter now amuses herself being a practitioner of Thai Kick Boxing and she has the build of a stick insect.
John
I did a similar thing (re genealogy) and went back to the mid 1800s, paying for death certificates. My condition is definitely genetic on my maternal side with my mother, 2 of her brothers, her own mother and 4 of her mother’s siblings, and both of her mother’s parents all dying of heart conditions. The youngest at 23, the oldest being my mother at 65. My brother and I both have whatever it is. Unfortunately, genetic testing has been inconclusive.
Look at most death certs going back as recently as 1940 and before and the vast majority of them have heart failure or other heart related fatalities as the cause and I suspect that was just the easiest thing for them to attribute death to. I agree with you fully though as my father and his 8 brothers and sisters all died from heart attacks and failure in their mid 70s and my brother and myself are both cursed with afib so genetics are the reason 100%. I am having an ablation the end of this month for the afib so fingers crossed.
Triggered by food and stress. Having children is a huge stress. I discovered about a year ago that fish oil supplements didn’t agree with me so I stopped taking them and no AF for almost a year until one day I forgot and took 1 only 1 and ended up having 2 back to back episodes. I haven’t taken any since and no AF. So go figure. Going back to the original post on this discussion, I really do think we need to be detectives in our own lifestyles.
💜💜💜💜💜💜
Pretty much my lifestyle too.
I would second that ! I’ve given up looking for triggers , I’ve got it I’m going to take the best care of me mentally and physically as I can and try and enjoy life .
Artificial sweeteners were a sure trigger for my AF but I only realised that after having had ablations. I often wonder if knowing that beforehand would have stopped my PAF attacks.
I've certainly asked myself all the questions you posed. I'm definitely not passive in my interactions with medical team.
I'm not sure what you mean by your last question though. 🤔
Do I want to be healed from Afib or just live with it? Thanks.
Well, there is really no such thing as a cure available to the vast majority of us.
Between my very many treatments and procedures over 30+ years, I've often thought I was 'cured' only to be surprised 3/4 years later.
I'm no longer surprised so you could say I've learnt to live with it but it doesn't dominate my life.
I'm never giving up hope though. .....coming up to 80 years old I had my 5th ablation a few weeks ago and have Left Atrial Appendage Occlusion planned for 3 weeks today !
Hiya Jalia,
Gosh, like me you must have been a 1944 baby. Your comments are pretty much my own view on matters AF ........... that AF is probably the most untrustworthy thing going, ( apart from politicians anywhere ) ... one can never say its beaten although I'm constantly amazed how well medication has kept the mongrel thing under control for me. Maybe due to the fact that my AF was identified and treatment started within 9 or 10 hours from onset.
Nevertheless, just because that is so up till now, doesn't mean that it will continue as I swing deeper into my 80's. Hopefully I've inherited my paternal grandmothers genes ........ she went on till 102, she was still drinking cream sherry at 101 plus ( in tumblers too, not dainty sherry glasses ).
Wishing you every success following your 5th ablation and for your forthcoming LAAO ............ gosh you'll soon be as good as new ! 😂😂😂
John
Thanks John. I must admit that I was rather partial to a large schooner or two of cream sherry in days of yore. Unfortunately ( or maybe fortunately 🤔) I could no longer tolerate alcohol after the birth of my daughter 44 years ago..... ( I've been known to indulge in a well diluted G&T on an odd occasion though 😀)
As any newcomers are advised on this forum, read, read and read some more, knowledge is the key to managing this mongrel condition, there’s no cure as such but many have success keeping it at bay with knowledge and being proactive, having an input in your approach to treatment. My personal opinion in these times is that being passive and expecting the system to take care of you is history.
link to all the reading material heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...
Best wishes all
Am I a passive patient who sits waiting for the doctor to decide? Most definitely not! I learnt years ago that this does not lead to wellness. Is there a history of heart disease either side of my family?......no not at all. Autoimmune one side, the other Parkinsons. What a choice!!!
What was the trigger then? Cancer treatment. Rarely mentioned on here but known to cause heart problems including AF. And given 1 in 2 of us will face cancer more of us will develop AF for that reason. Unless they've got more clever with how they manage their treatments since my brush with jt 10yrs ago..
Did drugs hold AF at bay?.....poorly & am largely intolerant of them. Were there triggers for my Afib?.....nothing specific that I could find but I followed the guidelines and avoided the well known ones just incase. Surgery was my best bet I was told by my EP as drugs not effective and I trod a downward path which was scary.....
so far they were right as still in nsr nearly 11months on since scary surgery.. Tenously off drugs though HR has increased..... Am I cured? That's an unknown. The doctors say yes, I'd say I'm in remission and hoping it lasts for the unforseeable!!! With fingers and toes crossed.
May you continue well!
Ja (yes in South African). For a lot of people, the "reason" why they get A-fib is completely out of their control and this kind of introspection can cause unnecessary self doubt. Just saying.
Be honest with yourself, but also be kind to yourself.
Well said. Obession can lead to many mental issues. Don’t let this take over your life and define who you are. Denial is like burying your head in the sand.
There's much in what you say and for sure it's we who need to take best care of ourselves - we can't rely on medicine alone. I've learned over the years that looking into our body systems and keeping them in balance is essential. I definitely agree about being proactive with the medics too. I do think that it's important not to blame ourselves though. Personally I wouldn't be comfortable telling myself I'd abused my body. Kindness and compassion are also good qualities to cultivate in relation to ourselves and I've found are helpful in managing both heart and the attendant anxiety that often comes with AF.
Nicely out Singwell. Couldn't agree more. 😀😀😀
Gym bunnies and keen cyclists are usually shocked and upset to find that their quest for ultimate fitness has probably contributed to the development of AF. They thought they were doing the best thing so being told that counted as ‘abusing their bodies’ doesn’t go down well. Other things such as excessive alcohol consumption or an unhealthy diet may contribute but there again it’s too late now! So the way forward is ‘how can I be healthier from now on?’
Well I don't blame myself. I do wonder if my episodes were instigated by working regularly in the Texas heat 100 degrees +/-, getting dehydrated and then adding a bunch of caffeine and salt. OR was I predisposed and would have gotten AF no matter what I did or were I lived.
I do know that the summers here are brutal on me physically, which is why we are planning a move, but what do I do, spend all my time indoors?
I sympathise. I have friends in Vegas who reported 114 the other week and how trying it was. I certainly would struggle in that heat. It's very worrying, but I'm off topic if we talk about that. Hope you find somewhere more temperate to live.
I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to blame ourselves for getting AF. We all have weaknesses in our body and our genetic predisposition plays a part. What you tell us of your life, l would think that it is a good recipe for kidney problems, but you haven’t got those have you? To get obsessed with this condition is the road to ruin. It’s like chasing the wind. It goes nowhere. To date, there is no cure only remission. Personally l am grateful l got diagnosed and that l don’t have something more serious. It’s treatable and not terminal. Lots don’t know they have it until a stroke comes. Why drive yourself crazy with “what ifs”. Life is for living.
We are all different. I believe that my AF is directly related to the heat/dehydration/salt. I did not gain anything from the comment. I live my life, just fine, still outside in this heat. Its what I have to do.
I have reduced my Salt and Tyramine intake and my episodes have dropped from once a month to now 1 episode in the last 7 months.
Why do you think salt would have had such an effect on you and what is Tyramine? Thanks.
Tyramine is a chemical in Aged Cheese, however, the same Aged Cheese is extremely high in Salt. Its also in other things. Its know to increase blood pressure and is a Migraine Trigger (Webmd)
I used to have Spaghetti with my Parmesan is the joke, a ton.
After working in the 100 degree weather for say 6 hours, I started trying to drink Powerades to replace electrolytes and then I would have a big meal with Caffeine and lots of Salt.
I had 3 of my 9 episodes that I know occurred the following morning after the above with Paremsan, the others I did not keep track of, but its likely several were after heavy/salty meals say Cheeseburgers or maybe just a heavy meal with Caffeine (soda).
I have since stopped drinking the powerades, just do water, milk, and caffeine free soda (boring), but since than I have gone from one episode a month to one in going on over 8 months.
Linked? who knows, but I do know that I am not going to be drinking Powerades, or other electrolyte replacing drinks unless a doctor tells me. And I avoid added table salt. If the food, like sushi is high in salt, I just am trying moderation. I add 2 tablespoons of Parmesan instead of 1/4 cup or whatever it was.
Its working for me, who knows. Hope that helps.
Tyramine is also in cured/processed meats, pickled/fremented vegetables, Citrus Fruits, and Alcohol. I do still have OJ, not a ton of cured/processed meats, some Bacon, Hot dogs. No Alcohol.
I made a pact with myself when I was on the heart ward - let me get out of here and I'll never drink alcohol again (I was already exercising and eating heathly). So far the pact holds...and it's in the rear view mirror (cross fingers).
i didn't take it too seriously 31 years ago only getting it on average every 5 years but after some time i found my triggers, alcohol caffeine and stress, i've been lucky having kept it at bay until 2022. 3 episodes since but have now added pilates and mindful breathing into my daly routine, i occasionally sip some red wine from my wife's glass but otherwise alcohol free and only decaf coffee. I don't miss it... I take supplements that i was low in, CoQ10, Vitd3 and magnesium and yes i don't just rely on my cardiologist we should be our own advocate as it is our life and our doctors may have hundreds of patients, they mean well and want to care for us but there decisions are made only when were in that room with them.
A great post Pommerania. Being more honest with ourselves with regard health, relationships and mental/spiritual wellbeing - I’ve certainly found these an upside of having AF. I’m better at listening to myself, better at setting boundaries, understanding my own needs and appreciating the small joys in life as well as celebrating milestones. I’ve a much clearer understanding of what people are up against in negotiating medical treatment, the importance of keeping ahead of the game, the responsibility we have to ourselves and others for looking after our own health. I like your metaphor of keeping AF in the rear view mirror. And I’m certain if we do this we live life more fully than if we just resign ourselves to the inevitability of sickness and old age!
Hi
I'm 75.
At 70 I'd just got back from a lovely Russian River Cruise 12 days but contracted the Australian flu through air conditioning to my cabin. I didn't start it up. I opened the window.
On Day 6, I contracted and couldn't get help in turning a.c off.
I had troubled sustaining all walks I noticed en route back.
Went to Dr as missed a flight at Frankfurt no help came. Wrong connection not Singapore but Lufthansa.
6 weeks later concerned that J & J rough mesh was moving sideways. No our ACC had to wait for damage!
Had a stroke, AF rapid and consistent, Thyroid Cancer - a shadow on my Thyroid day 4 having a Carotid Arteries Scan.
So we know with me I could have had AF earlier but the thyroid cancer caused the AF which caused the Stroke.
Otherwise even the latest, a PET scan shows me from top to toes unremarkable except for heart and the 3 areas ? papillary cancer return.
I'm lucky because if I hadn't had a stroke the thyroid cancer could have killed me, and lucky that when the rapid rate was under control at 2 years 3 mths - savour CCB Diltiazem, the system I have is that I can't walk and exert myself without stopping to rest. No breathlessness now.
Last week Tuesday I had a suspected UTI and was having No.8 Covid jab.
So on Thursday and Friday I had 2 and next day 1 flip of my heart. I also had vertigo and had to close my eyes and sit down.
I started meds for UTI on Monday when the Nurse rung.
Dr said UTI but chemist who also studies natural remedies said COVID jab.
I did have an antibiotic before and after jab. I am immuned compromised.
I feel most probably jab. Ouch it gave me a jolt each time. Now I know what you folks feel.
Oh dear, I am so lucky.
I'm a person who follows my results and look things up. Recently after PET scan was low T3. Ate 4 brazils nuts a day, sardines and beef liver. It went from 3.4L to 4.4 normal. My B12 was 1024 so I have eased back to 3 x daily 1 sublingual SOLGAR nugget. I'm deficient otherwise.
I belong to a few great research companies RADCLIFFE UK one.
I fight for my yearly neck scan. Thyroid. I have 3 mthly blood tests. I attend DR monthly always booking 1 mth ahead, I question Dr and Surgeon. I've been discharged from Cardiologist because my meds have made me stable he says (2 yrs 6 months.)
I help others and recently diagnosed my dear friend 82 with Cryptogenis Organising Pneumonia. A rare disease and informed the hospital.
Yes - past nurse 1st Prof but preferred children at 17 years. Nurse Aid 16 years with children.
Be interested in your own health and will make others interested in you, please.
Yes a healthy meal awaits. Grasfed beef, potato, fresh caufi done in capsium and apricot sauce with onions.
cherio JOY. 75. (NZ). off to jAPAN in October, first out since Stroke, Tasmania in March with rental. I'm catching up.
well said. Wise words made me think that thanks
Mine is inherited and set in early. I was in my early 40's when it began. I have no triggers. I can eat, drink, do anything and it makes no difference. It has been permanent now for a good few years. I barely notice it. But my HR goes high when I try to exercise with bothers me a lot. I get knackered very easily.
My dad, at least one of his brothers and one of his sisters had it. One of my cousins that I now of. I was slim, fit and very active when it started. I manage it as well as I can. In all the time I've only been offered 1 cardioversion. I'm too fat now for much else. I have horrible thyroid issues that are far more overwhelming to me.
Mine came on In 2018 as tachycardia or flutter when I had a terrible flu and was dehydrated. I did t have another until 8 mos later when it kicked off with AFib. I have since found out that AFib runs in my paternal side of the family. I never knew it but my grandmother and her siblings had it and actually my aunt on my mother’s side also.
I did have food triggers and used Eastern medicine along with regular meds. Mine kept getting worse so I did my research because I was not interested in ablation. along with the help of a lady posting on here once I found the Wolf MiniMaze. It was exactly what I needed.
And I knew right away I would pursue that avenue. Had it in 2022 and am off all meds including blood thinners and am AFib free since surgery.
What is the condition of my body?It was in fine fettle before AF. I was 29, eating well, exercising daily but moderately, not overweight.
20 years later, in heart failure due to AF and collecting other health conditions along the way.
Have I abused my body and/or do I continue to abuse my body?
I don't drink alcohol. I don't smoke. I exercise. I meditate.
I still had AF for 20 years.
What is my diet like?
I haven't eaten meat since I was a kid. My main meals are fruit and veg based. I don't eat takeaways or processed meals.
Do I look beyond so-called conventional medicine?
Sure. And lots of things can make me feel better but they've never gotten rid of AF Unfortunately.
Do I realize that I need to be more concerned about my health than any physician?
In the UK this is not a choice. Its a necessity.
Indeed, am I passive when it comes to my interaction with medical personnel, waiting on THEM to take care of me?
As above.
Point is that unfortunately AF can affect people from all walks of life and whilst lifestyle can play a part this is not a direct link for many.
Blaming ourselves for the condition is a road that often goes nowhere or goes somewhere pretty dark. I know cos I've been there.
That doesn't mean I don't include myself in the picture when I consider what can be different but I do so with less self blame and more accountability by choice.
Yes , although answers will be very different between sufferers from aFib , and you won't necessarily get the 100% full answer to why it developed in the first place those are questions that are worth considering for us all. Especially in relation to how actively we are taking part in the partnership between us and our doctors in our own care.
I believe very strongly that I am the CEO of my body and health and have experts to advise me. The responsibility for decision making is ultimately mine.
Here is a quote from an online article from the U. of Michigan Medical Center per Afib causes:
"For some individuals, consuming a large meal can cause gastrointestinal problems. These, in turn, can stimulate the vagus nerve, which connects the gut, brain and heart. A spike in the vagus nerve from eating a large meal can spark an Afib event. Research shows that when gastrointestinal issues resolve, Afib episodes typically subside."
Even before I saw that and other articles and videos, I knew that was the case with most of my Afib episodes, along with a few resulting from sleep apnea.
My doctors ignored me when I maintained that trapped stomach was my primary trigger. They had no interesting in helping me reduce the Afib triggering gas.
I have the belief that if a doctor cannot tell me what causes something, then she doesn't know what doesn't cause it, and that my personal experiences and conjectures are worth taking seriously.
Thanks for your comments. Something that you might investigate, if you haven't already, are the works of a Dr. Joel Wallach. He maintains that damage to the Vagus Nerve, primarily along the spine, is the chief cause of Afib, and can be repaired with diet and minerals and vitamins, etc. His old radio programs are on YouTube. That is the best way to study his teachings.
In my case, I was obese, and had systemic lupus, frequent diarrhea, as well as PAF about twice a week. When my kidneys started to fail, I was finally motivated to change my lifestyle, went on the kidney diet (vegan, no processed foods, no sugar or sweeteners) so side effects were that the lupus went into remission and I've only had one episode of aFib in the last year or two. I only see a GP now, for an annual. In other words, if you are tired and overweight and have bad habits and co-morbidities, your body may be more likely to respond well to a lifestyle change. My heart is quite calm these days. I'm curious, Pommerania 78, what resulted from your honest self-examination.
Thanks for your comments. How long did it take you to reform your system? I went to the emergency room nine months ago. Since then I have radically changed my diet and lost 71 pounds, which is 27 percent of my original body weight. I also take Flecainide and Metropol. I have not had any problems at all in over four months. I believe that damage to our Vagus Nerve is one of the chief reasons for Afib and since the Vagus Nerve is in both the stomach and heart it is probably one of the reasons why weight loss and diet reform help do away with Afib. I am always amazed at the number of people on this Forum who will tell you that there is no cure and we are all doomed. I certainly do not believe that.
You ask some good questions ..
It used to worry me when people said AF is always progressive .. so I asked my cardiologist and he said 60% of those who are diagnosed with AF tend to 'progress' but for the other 40% the jury is out. I don't know if there's research to back this up but it doesn't seem helpful, particularly for newly diagnosed people, likely to be anxious about the longer term implications of AF, to be told it's always progressive.
Whether it's progressive and how much impact it has on our lives will depend on so many variables, the CHADS score, what type of AF we have, our general health, life experience, how we treat our body, mind and spirit .. food, relaxation, thoughts, habits etc.
Since my PAF diagnosis I'm definitely paying a closer and different kind of attention to my body. Listening out more to what stresses might increase anxiety. Looking after it with a lot more kindness. Not that I was cruel before, but perhaps I was careless ..
It is very easy in life to be fatalistic, passive and defeatist. That takes little effort. But if we want greater and better things, we must learn to do the opposite of that. I have to be careful when I'm on this Forum not to be discouraged, as so many here will tell you that there is nothing we can do aside from "managing" things. I notice this behavior all around me, every day, in most human endeavors. So, I look for those and emulate those who aspire for healing and excellence. Thanks.
Vagal Afib and Bisoprolol
Living with AFIB how?
Here we go again!
