Hi all,
Hope you all have a great Easter ... plenty of chocolate and bunnies ..... or even warm, sunny, dry weather !
Have any of you who take Edoxaban experienced the worst most sleep destroying nightmares of a violent topic ? Or even any nondescript dreams or nightmares.
I did put a post on here a few weeks ago on here about ditching Nebivolol and returning to Warfarin and I talk to my Surgery Pharmacist on Tuesday ..... so once I've had that chat I'll come back with her comments.
John
Never had a problem with Apixaban, never taken Nebivolol but do know that some beta blockers can cause high anxiety in some people which causes more REM sleep resulting in nightmares. More common with withdrawal from substances though - any meds you recently stopped?
Thank you CD.
Not stopped per se, but three meds have been changed over last 6/7 months ......... all initiated by Surgery GP or Pharmacist ... not initiated by me. These three were Simvastatin to Atorvastatin, Warfarin to Edoxaban and Bisoprolol to Nebivolol.
I speak to Pharmacist on Tuesday and plan to request return to Warfarin and cease taking beta blockers entirely. Now given that I am described as asymptomatic - and given my last known identified AF event was 4 years ago, given that my current surgery has never been consulted on any AF event in the last 12 years ( apart from signing off repeat prescriptions ) ..... what is your personal wisdom on stopping betas, please. I've known you on here long enough on this forum to know you'll give it to me straight - please.
My personal thoughts were to cut out betas very slowly, progessively over say two to three months ..... long enough to enable me to closely monitor both changes in BP and HR, bearing in mind I'm on Ramipril and Felodopine for BP permanently.
John
I am on Metoprolol and recently discussed changing to another BB with my cardiologist because of sleeping problems. He said he had heard of problems with nightmares and "the horrors" with Metoprolol. A quick search indicates similar problems with some other beta blockers including Nebivolol.
You probably already know this but asymptomatic means you don't have symptoms with your AF episodes, not that you don't have episodes. If your episodes are asymptomatic how do you know you haven't had any episodes in the last 4 years?
Maybe the system is different here (Australia) but I'd be discussing ceasing/changes in medications with my cardiologist or at very least, my GP (who basically follows cardiologist's treatment plan). They determine my medications and the pharmacist supplies them. The pharmacist knows nothing of my medical conditions and history. I doubt even my GP would make any important changes to my heart medications without consulting/advising my cardiologist. YMMV
Hi bean_counter,
Thanks for your comments ...... yep, nightmares and horrors describes my night experiences.
OK, so how do I know I haven’t had any AF events in the last 4 years. Hand on heart, no I can’t. Except that back in the day, I would experience any of the following ....... squadrons of butterlies having a dogfight in my chest, a bag of earthworms all wriggling away in my chest, a feeling of being unwell, ( bear in mind the original manifestion of AF presented itself by my feeling as if I were going down with flu in 2010 ), if my chest is feeling ‘light’ I felt normal - if it felt heavy, and hard for me to breathe - then I was in the AF zone. Usually AF hits after I’ve eaten, a full meal or even just snacks with offending ingredients.
In the event of feeling unwell, and if I am home, I either hook up to my BP monitor which has the capability to recognise AF and record it on the App or use my Kardia 6L.
Here in UK my Surgery employs a range of healthcare professionals i.e. Pharmacist and Physio etc who have access to my records, as my GP has. After my first 12 months after AF diagnosis my Cardiologist discharged me back to the care of my GP. Never seen a cardiologist since. Never needed to because once my trigger was accurately identified and I came under the care of a Nutritionist who advised me on diet et al, I never needed to see either Cardiologist or my GP. I have been with my existing GP for 12 years and she has never had to intervene in my AF, except write me repeat prescriptions. Again, there has not been a need for her to intervene.
I would hope your national Medicare ( be it private or public ) is better than the NHS here ......... goodness knows how long I’d have to wait to see a Cardiologist .... 3 months, 6 months - who knows. It has taken me 6 weeks just to get an Ultrasound on my shoulder for an injury. The NHS in Britain is beyond crap! Being deliberately run down by government so that it can be dismantled in favour of privatisation - possibly with no opt out options !
John
My AF is low burden, seemingly well managed with medications. However, AF is almost always a progressive disorder i.e. it gets worse over time. So it makes sense to be proactive if you can - for me that's seeing my cardiologist at least once a year (more frequently if I have any issues) and being sent for tests to monitor for changes in my heart's condition. An ounce of prevention....
I rarely use Australia's public health system for any services. I use private service providers. Medicare pays rebates on most of the services I receive for my AF - but it only covers a fraction of the cost. The lead times are much shorter and you get to choose your service providers but it comes at a cost.
Unfortunately it sounds difficult to be proactive with the NHS. However, it shouldn't stop you from trying.
Good luck with your proposed changes. I hope they work for you.
Hello John, I take Xarelto, Bisoprolol (1.25gm) when my HR gets to the 90s (every few days). Low dose of Verapamil, 5mg Atorvastatin, '10mg Lisinopril. and 0.75mg Alprazolam (0.25mg in the morning and 0.50mg at bedtime.) and when I dream, I have the most wonderful dreams and I do not want to wake up !!!!
Apixaban didn’t affect me, but I have had strange dreams since I started Bisoprolol. Not terrifying, just lots of dreams.
Beta blockers are well known to cause nightmaresl
Now thats the odd thing ......... been on Bisoprolol (5mg) since Jan 2010 , initially a problem as it was prescribed to be taken in the morning. Developed random, full flow nose bleeds. GP changed it to be taken at night and no more nose bleeds. No more problems until about a year ago when a very gradual, massive tiredness crept in and a Zombie like mentality. Put up with it for a few months when I complained to my GP and I was switched to Nebivolol in Sept 2023. Initially OK but now not so. Then in Dec 2023 I was changed from Warfarin to Edoxaban .... all gone down hill since.
I notice you mention Atorvastatin - myself and two friends were put on this within a two month period of each other. All of us said we were having vivid dreams that were much more intense than what we’d had before. It’s eased off for me a bit now but occasionally I do have them still. Hope you find your answer.
Hi, I have copied a reply that I sent someone about a year ago, below. Hope this is of interest.
Hi, I was prescribed Bisoprolol at 5mg twice daily back in July 2017, following 'heart failure', though this may have been myocarditis - the medics were really unsure what had happened. As a by product, I was also diagnosed with AF, though I was fortunate enough to never suffer 'attacks' of AF as others describe their situation. To be honest, the various meds that I was given (Eplerenone, Candesartan, Atorvastatin, Rivaroxaban and Bisoprolol) all seemed to make me feel worse but I carried on taking them until early 2021, when I decided to see if I could wean myself off most of them. I still take the anticoagulant Rivaroxaban daily to help reduce the stroke risk that is inherent with AF. I am generally fit and active but suffered from unexpected joint pain, muscle pain (particularly in my legs) and wild nightmares - really psychedelic dreams the like of which I'd never experienced. Also some memory loss - things that I knew that I knew just couldn't be dredged up for the General Knowledge crosswords! Research suggested that the Bisop could be the culprit so I gradually titrated my intake down, to 5mg a day, then 2.5mg, until I stopped taking it altogether. I felt brighter, the muscle pains reduced (statins also seem to generate these), the nightmares stopped immediately and my memory was measurable improved. I never became aware of any negative symptoms from reducing my pill intake. I am back to 'normal'! I did advise my Cardio Consultant of this on a phone consultation, he wasn't overly concerned but asked me to have a 48 hour Holter monitor so he could see that I was OK . I've not heard any more and continue to feel absolutely fine. I've have aided myself by eating more healthily, losing some weight, reducing alcohol and caffeine input and exercising (golf) two or three times a week. Maybe I am lucky. Anyway, good luck with your journey, I hope that you are able to benefit from my experience. But obviously, what works for me may not work for you or others, so take advice and take it steady if you do decide to reduce or stop your meds.
I'm on Edoxaban and Bisoprolol amongst other things. I get so weird very vivid dreams but not night mares or violence thankfully
I’m on Apixaban 5mg twice a day and Bisoprolol 2.5 I have really horrible nightmares/dreams but I suppose I just have to put up with them. I might ask to have the Bisoprolol dose reduced and see if that helps.
I do also take Atorvastatin!
I'm on Nebivolol, Edoxaban and Atorvastatin. Don't have any disturbing dreams at all. My Atorvastatin is a very low dose though, 20mg.
I speak to my surgery Pharmacist tomorrow and plan to reject these 'new' drugs anyway. (By 'new' I mean ...... Nebivolol, Edoxaban and Atorvastatin) with the request I return to Warfarin, ( I have my own self testing device and todays 'tech' doesn't phase me ), Simvastatin and Bisoprolol - except that I want to reduce my Bisoprolol to 1.25mg.
My old Simvastatin and the new Atorvastatin were both 40mg.
Many thanks.
I'm surprised you are rejecting Nebivolol as it has far less impact on breathlessnes, I am asthmatic and found it to be much better. I'm on 1.25mg instead of the 10mg of Bisoprolol.
Thank you. Well, I am personally rejecting all 3 'new' drugs, Nebivolol, Atorvastatin and Edoxaban. I have some very pursuasive arguments to kick around with my Surgery Pharmacist tomorrow. I plan to return to my 'old' drugs, Warfarin, Bisoprolol ( but only 1.25mg ) and Simvastatin. At no time in my long life have I ever suffered from breathing/lung issues, so Nebivolol having an impact on such issues is non existant.
Mind you, I gotta win the argument first !
I’ve never had a problem with Edoxaban. Been on it for a few years now.
I had valve repair in 2,000. I developped persistent AF in 2, 012. I have woken every night since 2,000 , at about 3 or 4 am. Intense dreams not nightmares. Usually involving me not achieving something, not feeding a baby or pets, losing my car, house problems. I wake , heart pounding and anxious . It is exhausting!!!!!! Been on , Amioderone, Flecanide, Bisuprolol , Apixaban, losartan , digoxin, propanolol. Every night the same.
Hi Luludean,
Gosh ! reading your comments - perhaps I shouldn't complain 😱
Often my dreams ( as distinct from nightmares ) are of people and situations which are very real hence I wake up. The nightmares are just dramatic, violent and very horrific. Blood curdling. I don't wake up screaming (else I'd wake up Mrs BenHall ) but they are quite sinister. I thought at first it was just one of those things but now the frequency is pretty much nightly.
However, all that said .....no heart issues, no pounding, no palpitations, no nothing ! Just sheer abject terror.
John
Yes I sometimes experience that; waking with racing heart following a disturbing dream. I normally deal with it by breathing exercises. Lost of car is a common one as is being stuck in another country & having trouble getting home. Do the dreams cause the heart race or the other way around?
I think everyone has weird dreams. I am on edoxaban & yes do have some disturbing dreams at times. Some say chocolate, coffee or alcohol among other things can induce nightmares, who knows. The last thing I would do is go on warfarin it is very lifestyle restricting.
Warfarin ...... not a problem for me - I've spent 12 years on Warfarin, self testing and self dosing .......... no problems ever. My best ever friend, I still work with it, travel to Australia many a time on holiday - I guess it all depends on how well a patient and/or the INR Clinic knows what they are doing.
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