I was diagnosed with AFib about two and a half years ago, I have been on blood pressure medication for many years, I am 76 yrs old. I am also on Prednisolone for Polymyalgia Rheumatica fo the last 3 years and am gradually tapering the dose down. Was put on Edoxaban for the AFib and had an Echocardiogram done and a 24 hour Holter but was told to continue care under my GP.
Thankfully I might only have 1 episode a month and usually at night when it would wake me up with a pounding heart.I have had a couple of times when I have waken up normally in the morning to find I need to urinate constantly, my heart is racing rather than pounding and I’m feeling quite light headed and anxious. This has happened this morning and when I’ve checked my BP it goes from low to extraordinarily high with a high pulse rate. I am wondering if I have had an AFib episode during the night and not realised this. Has anyone else had this experience?
Since last year I have been seeing a cardiologist privately as the Prednisolone has caused my BP to rise and my GP seems unable to prescribe anything that stabilises it. The cardiologist has altered 2 of my medications and it was better but after having Covid this January my readings were higher. The cardiologist wanted me to have a 24 hour Holter and he said that while my daytime readings weren’t worrying my high time ones were high which is unusual and more dangerous.He has now increased one of my meds and altered the time I take it. He told me that the majority of strokes happen at nighttime or when people get up and then said to come and see him in 6 months time or contact him if I have any problems.. He said not to worry but I am very worried particularly as my father died of s stroke and both my parents had high BP. I am now thinking of getting a Kardia to check whether when I get these feelings it is an AFib episode, Anxiety or my BPgoing haywire. Has anyone found a Kardia to be helpful.My Cardiologist said a lot of his patients use one to check if they are in AFib.
Sorry for the length of my post but I hope some of you may have the patience to read it!
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Jomaur
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Just two things to advise. Edoxaban is an antioagulant to help prevent AF related stroke. It does not treat AF so are you on another drug such as a beta blocker.?
The second point is that AF makes us pee for England. The distressed heart gives off an enzyme which tells the body to shed salt, hence what medics call "excess micturation" . You pee a lot. Sounds like you are in AF more than you realise.
A kardia can be useful in tracking AF burden but beware that they can generate obsession whch in turn can increase anxiety which can increase AF so use sparingly.
Thank you BobD. I have been on 15 mg Bisoprol daily for my BP for years. I am also on Indapamide 2.5mg, Lercandipine 20 mg,Olmesartan 40 mg and Doxazosin 8mg plus Prednisolone 5mg and Avorstatin.None of these drugs have been prescropibed specifically for AFib.
I don’t feel it does but then as I have been on Bisoprol for years before I was diagnosed with AFib I don’t know any difference. I think what made the diagnosis particularly frightening for me was I had to go to A&E during Covid. My husband wasn’t allowed in with me and initially they thought I had a heart attack and treated me for that. It was really very scary and not much was explained to me. When I was sent for a chest X-ray a doctor accompanied me. I then spent a night on a trolley in a brightly lit ward and was told I would be admitted but suddenly in the morning I was told I had AFib and sent home with my Edoxaban and no real information. I am not criticising the hospital they were obviously overworked and I was cared fior but it was very traumatic.Three weeks later I tripped over a pile of roofing slates sticking out on the ground in a neighbour’s front garden which was in complete darkness, while collecting a parcel. Ended up back in A&E with three fractures in my left humerus!
Thank you Baba. I certainly don’t want to become a slave to another machine, bad enough with all the kitchen appliances bleeping for my attention. As you say I just want to find out if it’s an AFib episode or something else. It’s all very well for the cardiologists to say you shouldn’t’t worry and that it won’t kill you but they have the knowledge that most of us don’t have as well as professional colleagues that they can turn to for advice rather than having to make an appointment or decide if you need to go to A&E. My current phone and IPad won’t support a Kardia but luckily our daughter is getting me a phone upgrade so once I’ve got that I’ll order the Kardia.
Kardia is a good choice. I would get the 6L model. Forget about getting "obsessed" or "being a slave" to it. Really the other way around. Being a slave is having no control. Kardia puts you into control.
That said, Kardia will only be useful for the episodes where you feel symptomatic. As I mentioned in my previous post, for those suspected episodes during the night, you will need continuous monitoring which Kardia does not do. Apple Watch is one alternative, but not completely continuous so you may miss a short episode. A 7-14 day ekg Patch from your doctor should do the trick here, assuming you have one of your "increased urination" events during that time period.
Thanks Jim I was thinking of getting the 1 lead in order to save money. Do you feel it’s worth paying the extra £50 as from what I’ve read they can both give the same reports or does the 6 lead have some other functions.
I do think it's worth the extra money. When I got the Mobile, the 6L had not been developed yet. They both are great, but the 6L is sturdier, has better connectivity and the option to do a single lead ekg (fingers only) or a six lead ekg (fingers and knee or ankle). The six lead contains more information which sometimes can be helpful to the doctor in distinguishing one arrhythmia from another, such as atrial flutter from atrial tachycardia. But for strictly afib purposes, the Mobile should be fine.
The way I use my 6L is to take a single lead first, because with fingers only, it's very quick and easy. Then when I've captured a single lead ekg, I will take my time, roll up my pants and do a six lead (fingers and knee).
I have a Kardia 6L. If I have ectopic beats, it does not seem to be able to distinguish those from AFib because I have requested the Kardia support staff to examine my EKG and they say that I was just having premature ventricular contractions. But when I took the EKG myself the Kardia said "possible Atrial Fibrillation". Not sure how it reads when you are actually in AFib because I have not been in AFib since my ablation 12 years ago.
Are the newer Kardia devices better at specifying the exact type of heart rhythm you are experiencing?
Kardia is v good no need to get the 6lead basic is fine. kardia supply a list of compatible pnes some are not! no need for a new pne i use galaxy a20 ebay 30pds works fine
Sorry to hear about your humerus! That doesn't sound like any fun at all, and n'or does your A & E adventures. You have my full sympathy having had quite a traumatic visit to A & E myself when my AFib journey first began.
The Kardia 6L is good, but I would suggest that you think about an Apple watch instead or as well as. I have both. The reason I'm suggesting that is because a lot of your heart things going on appear to be happening at night, which your Kardia will be blissfully unaware of. You can wear your Apple watch all night and it'll give you a good picture of what's occurring - it'll record heart rate and potentially any episodes of AFib. You can also do an ECG at any time in the same way as the Kardia and the Apple watch ECGs are pretty good. Just a thought.
As far as the 'anxiety causing obsession' I'm with Jim on this. Personally I find it very reassuring to know what's happening with my heart so for me it's anxiety reducing not causing. Everyone's different and some people on this forum find devices unhelpful and some of us find them very helpful.
I think I fit Bob's obsession profile, I don't think you can get the device here in South Africa - I have never seen it or seen it advertised, which is just as well, as I would definitely buy one and spend half the day hooked up to it as I am asymptomatic with AF!
No I don’t think I’ll become odsessed as I do get symptoms which are easier to identify if they happen during the night but sometimes if it’s during the day the symptoms are more subtle.
Jomaur: I am wondering if I have had an AFib episode during the night and not realised this. Has anyone else had this experience?
Very well could be, however to be sure you need an ekg. With the symptomatic episodes that only occur once a month, a home event monitor like the Kardia 6L or Apple Watch would be ideal. You would take the ekg when you wake up with the "pounding heart" and then email it to your ep for analysis to confirm if afib or not.
With the suspected episodes (constant urination) the Apple Watch may or may not pick it up. Here, best to ask your doctor for a 7-10 day Patch and hopefully that time period will correlate with one of your "constant urination" mornings. Then the ep could compare the ekg's to see if anything happened that night.
Alternatively, you could get a Wellue 24 hour, ecg recorder, but before getting it, I would read the reviews here to see if it's something that suits you.
In any event, you really want to find out what these episodes are and the only way to be sure is with an ekg.
Thank you for your reply. At the moment I have a phone that cannot support the Kardia app but hope to get an upgrade this week so will then order a Kardia. I really want to identify what these episodes are as I am not being woken up with them as I was previously.I suspect today’s was an AFib episode. We have had a very busy and a little stressful time lately combined with quite a bit of travelling so this may have contributed to it. Sorry but I am not sure what a 7 day Patch is nor an ep.
A "7 day ekg patch" is a tiny ekg transmitter/patch that will run a continuous ekg for 7 days. During that time period, it will pick up any arrhythmic events, like afib. At the end of the seven days, your doctor then downloads the data and analyzes. Some models will actually transmit the data to the doctor real time. An "ep" is short for electrophysiologist. They are cardiologists with additional training in arrythmia's like afib.
Thank you for explaining that Jim. I have looked up my cardiologist and Electrophysiology is one of his specialities. He is a bit of a gadget geek and has so many computer screens etc I am convinced he could return an Amazon parcel if you asked him! I reckon I will go for the 6 lead now.Seems a lot of money but when it’s your health you need answers.
Yes that’s OK. Usually I do wake up but this morning I woke up early needing to go to the bathroom and that’s when I could feel my heart racing which made me wonder if it was AFib. If I had a Kardia I could have used it then while I still had the symptoms and it would have confirmed whether it was AFib or not. I absolutely hate the feeling you get after an episode and if I know that it’s because of AFib I deal with it better. Silly I know but I can deal with pain, I have had Facet Joint Syndrome for nearly 2 years which is very painful but hate feeling lightheaded as if I’m going to pass out and I really panic about it which is stupid as it makes it worse!
Just to add: I agree with Bob in that the Kardia can cause anxiety. For that reason, I resisted having one for a very long time. However, I did succumb about a year ago, and now feel I’ve wasted my money since I am in AF all the time!
You can wear an Apple Watch during the night to check. That's what I do but only rarely as that's when I charge mine. If it shows heart rate irregularity in the morning, you can be fairly sure this was AF. Alternatively, if you waken with the pounding, it's easy to carry out an ECG using the watch.
Alternatively you can buy a cheap (Chinese, sorry) fitness watch and set it to record your rate every five minutes 24/7. If theres’s a sudden jump in HR it’s a clue you started AF or Flutter (fast but regular). I thought I could tell I’m in AF without a gadget but a 7 day monitor proved me wrong! Really all you need is the Kardia as you have symptoms.
I've been on prednisolone for polymyalger rheumatica for 2 yearsand I also have AF and found that as the dose reduced it my mybheart race.some days. I'm fine now and I am 70 years old
Yes, you probably had Afib that night. The fact that it occurs during the night signifies that it is very likely vagally triggered (by the vagal nerve). In that case, Flecainide (Tambocor, Apocard) as well as Disopyramide (Rythmodan or Norpace) will be very efficient in stopping it altogether or at least reducing the number of attacks. Maybe you could suggest these meds to your cardiologist? All the best, and don’t worry too much: my (rare) episodes often start at night, and I’m still alive & kicking at 74. Good sinus!
Thank you, I have asked my cardiologist about medication to stop an episode but he feels they carry too many side effects. Maybe as touch wood they don’t happen too frequently he feels they aren’t necessary for me. Mind you he’s not the one having them!
Get a Kardia. That is what was suggested by an EP who I saw privately after the lowest dose of the beta blockers the surgery came up with proved too much for me!! After I’d sent him a reading of my heart in AF he sent a prescription for Flecainide to my surgery which I first took as a PIP when episodes occurred ( monitored with my Kardia with added Bisoprolol if heart rate was over 140 twenty minutes later which hardly ever happened). Now I take it regularly twice daily I haven’t had an episode for well over a year. And as I don’t have episodes I don’t need any anticoagulants with the dreadful side effects they had for me. But we are all different and hope you find what works for you.
Thank you as I’ve just said in a reply my cardiologist wasn’t at all keen for me to take anything to stop the episode when it happened as he said there would be too many side effects. I am on quite a lot of medication for my BP including 15mg Bisoprol so that may be why. With a Kardia I can email him the results, he will love that he is an IT geek, and then he can see exactly what goes on. As you say we are all individuals and so are our cardiologists with their own opinions.
Get a Kardia and then when you are in afib as confirmed by the machine take your pulse and learn how different it feels from when you are in NSR. With experience you should be able to tell when you are in afib. My afib sometimes comes on at night or in the early hours. It always wakes me up and the bathroom trips usually start 30-40 mins later. For some reason they are more delayed now than they were when I first started with afib 9 years ago. I always know when I go into afib even though the signs are now fairly subtle. My heart no longer pounds and feels like I've got an army of frogs fighting in my chest. Maybe that is because I am far less anxious about the episodes now. Often I don't bother using my Kardia. I just take extra Nebivolol and try to distract myself till it passes.
Thank you. I haven’t been prescribed any medication to take when an episode starts as my cardiologist feels they carry too many side effects. Maybe that’s why I feel so anxious about them as I feel I have no way of controlling them although it’s the after effects that I hate more the feeling lightheaded and weakness.Think the Kardia will help as I can also then send reports to my cardiologist.
Nice to read that you are coping without the anxiety that often accompanies Afib. How high -or low- is your resting heart rate during an episode? And on average, how long does one last?
My heart rate usually goes up according to my Kardia to about 150 bpm at the beginning of an episode. I take extra Nebivolol as instructed by my cardiologist (though sometimes I take a bit more than he said!) and some extra magnesium . My episodes usually last between 8 -12hrs though I have had some that have lasted a bit longer. My overall burden is a bit less than 2%.
I have an EMAY portable ECG monitor. It’s a small hand held gadget. It’ll take a heart tracing , which you can put it onto your phone, to show the Doctors, when you go to them. It’ll also tell you whether your heart is beating normally or if you have an abnormal rhythm.When I had my follow up appointment, after my ablation,I was getting palpitations, so showed the Doctor the ECG tracings I had taken and he said they there nothing to worry about and that these gadgets were a very good thing to have, especially, if you only get the arrhythmias occasionally.
Have you been checked out for sleep apnea? It's a common trigger for a-fib. From your description of your episodes, maybe it's something to investigate even if you're not sure what you're having is a-fib or not.
I have an older cheaper Motorola phone and it's not on Kardia's list of "tested and approved phones", but my 6L works just fine.
I think the issue is that Alivecor (the parent company) can't test every phone model, so their list, while expanding, is certainly not complete.
I think your phone just needs to have Bluetooth for the connection between the device and your phone, and most phones have Bluetooth these days.
So I would certainly see if your current phone works with the device (6L) before spending money on a new phone, unless of course you need a replacement.
There was one drawback I experienced when the AliveCor Help Centre discovered I was using a phone not on their "tested and approved" list, they refused to answer any more of my queries, in effect, leaving me with no customer support. But that wasn't a big concern to me. At least I didn't have to buy an expensive phone I didn't need.
But if you want the latest list of "approved phones", here it is ...
Thank you for your advice Bob. My phone does need replacing and I am very fortunate that it comes on our daughter’s business account so it won’t cost me anything otherwise I would think twice about it.
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