Kardia monitor - if it says ‘Possible AFib is it always AFib?

[Nodoubt2]

hi there

I’m still fairly new to the whole world of AFib diagnosed in January this year only having had 3 ‘big attacks’ ( cardio version needed due to RVR around 165 for the last 2 events)

I’ve been on Flecainide since august 24 th and am getting ‘AFib’ readings on my Kardia almost every 1-3 days now. The first one I got i was away on holiday and I sent the ECG to my cardiologist and he said not to worry unless it was over 100. All my current readings are on low HR of around 60-80 but I am getting fatigue & shakyness as symptoms. The consultant seemed to indicate that the ECG I sent him was not AFib but ‘ectopics’ but the reading was definitely irregular heart rhythm and that’s what it continues to show and is being classified as AFib by Kardia.

I’m worried that it’s the Flecainide that is causing so much AFib ? Has anyone else had a problem with this?

It’s good I’ve not had one with high RVR but they still make me feel rubbish and I’m very concerned at the frequency I am now ‘in AFib’.

I’m not overweight, I walk regularly, eat a plant based diet and have cut as much stress from my life as I can . I gave up alcahol on July 4 th after being in intensive care in Majorca for AFib!

So I feel furious that the AFib is still lurking so much more than it was, even though now it’s much more tolerable.

My daughter is getting married in two weeks and I’m super worried I’ll end up in AFib during the wedding! Any ideas how I can avoid AFib on the big day appreciated.

I’m seeing my consultant again October 13 th 6 days after her wedding since I’m booked in to have an angiogram ( I have CHD) and they’re checking just how bad the blockages are.

So is Kardia accurate if it’s says ‘poss AFib’ ? What are your experiences with it

the Ecg extract is from last night Kardia with an AFib determination ( by the way I was getting so many AFib / unclassified readings over the last month I asked Kardia to send me a new machine since I thought mine was broken - however it’s not broken getting the same stream of readings on the new device)

Thanks in advance

[mjames1]

What Kardia says are called "determinations". They are pretty accurate but not always correct for various reasons. On the other hand, the ekg generated by Kardia will tell the real story.

So very important, before making any decisions based on a Kardia determination, to have the ekg read by an ep so you can be sure what you're dealing with. Alternatively, depending on what Kardia plan you have, the ekg can be sent to Kardia directly for one of it's cardiologists to review.

If you're lucky "DrDave" will show up and save you the time. He's the head of Kardia

Jim

[Nodoubt2 in reply to mjames1]

Let’s hope Doctor Dave sees this then. Is he really head of Kardia or are you teasing ? P

[mjames1 in reply to Nodoubt2]

No, he posts here from time to time.

Jim

[fairgo45 in reply to mjames1]

He's certainly real I know that for sure and my opinion is that possibly atrial fibrillation is sometimes not afib but something else PAC or PVC I sometimes have 10,000 in 24 hours

[Finvola in reply to Nodoubt2]

Dr David Albert - he invented the Kardia.

[jeanjeannie50]

As you have put Kardia in your heading Dr Dave may well answer your post here.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Cross fingers p

[Buffafly]

In a word - no. It could be frequent ectopics with or without tachycardia. Or the Flecainide could be causing an arrhythmia - it is known for doing that hence the usual prescription of a beta blocker or calcium channel blocker with it. When I went to an appointment with the AF nurse I could feel lots of thumps and bumps which I would have interpreted as AF but she pointed out that I was having ectopics organised in a sort of pattern. So keep taking the readings and leave your consultant to interpret them ❤️‍🩹

[Buffafly in reply to Buffafly]

PS Re the wedding, start practising ‘controlled breathing’ and be well but not too well! hydrated and super organised to prevent stress and - enjoy!

[Aegean56 in reply to Buffafly]

I agree ....try to control as much as possible , the anticipatory anxiety about the wedding and the possibility of A-fib by controlling what you can and work hard on letting go of what you can't . I find that A-fib begets A- fib. The more I obsess, the more anxiety I have which seems to feed it. Plan what you can , pill in pocket, deep breathing, meditation, reassuring self talk etc. Minimize you alcohol intake best you can....take the photo with glass in hand and maybe a sip here or there. HYDRATE, HYDRATE, HYDRATE and avoid any known triggers. Congrats on the wedding and wishing you blessings for a beautiful peaceful happy event!

[Nodoubt2 in reply to Buffafly]

Thanks I’ll keep doing the readings and see what my consultant says. Thanks for the tip on breathing p

[Palpman]

What I did notice was the absence of P waves.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to Palpman]

Yep I often do t have any p waves

[AAJJTt]

Hi, I have usually found the determination of Kardiamobile to be accurate where Afib is concerned. That said, my episodes have been very distinct too - high HR with RVR causing the familiar chest flutterings and trembling; no other symptoms. I don’t need a Kardia reading to know I am having an episode.

I haven’t had an episode for a number of years now. However, I still use the Kardiamobile occasionally as control, just to check, especially if I feel any different. Experience has led me to be confident in the device.

I am on Flecainide too and for me, it has been a good solution. Stable and Afib free for 3 years plus.

As ever, I’d always recommend discussing everything with your cardiologist.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to AAJJTt]

Thanks. I’m glad flecainide he worked for you and long maybyou stay AFib free.

[Buffafly]

Just looked closely at your small strip and I think that looks like bigeminy - ectopic every other beat.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to Buffafly]

Never heard of that before - some of my readings do fit that patter but others are all over the place . Will have to see what my consultant says

[frazeej in reply to Buffafly]

I agree. The heart beat is "irregular", but (and this sounds confusing), it is "regularly irregular", as you have a beat coming sooner than it should. If you get out the ruler, you'll see that the distance between two normal alternate "R" beats is 46mm, so the beat in between tham should be 23mm from each, but it's not-it's occurring pematurely-and this pattern repeats itself, in a regular manner. The "R" waves in afib are MUCH more chaotic and irregular. This and the HR of 70bpm argues against afib, but towards PAC with trigeminy. Just my layman's opinion.

[Blondie12345 in reply to frazeej]

What does PAC with trigeminy mean? I have a previous ecg with this wording on it ‘trigeminy’

[jayjay10000]

Hi there iam sorry to hear that you are having heart health issues at the moment. You can try and phone the cardiologist team up and explain that you are really worried about your heart to weather they can give you an earlier appointment. I have been experiencing the same problems as you, but my first appointment with the cardiologist consultant is not until the end of March 2024. I had my echo done in March 2023, that's when they found I had a Aortic root dilation of 4cm. I was in Lanzarote in May this year with my wife, daughter and her husband when I had my 5th in counter with very fast heart rate, feeling rubbish and shakey on the day of our return flight home. I went to there local hospital which was only 15min away by taxi. They saw me straight away, took all my obs, BP 180/110 and heart rate 220, I stayed in hospital for 5 hours. They gave me 5mg of valum and another BP tablet. For the flight home gave me 10mg of valum to get me back to Newcastle.We were there on a 10 day break but on the 7th night I started to feel lightheaded, shakey feeling terrible. I was the same for day 8, 9. I know exactly where you are coming with you health, I have to take one day at a time with life now since being diagnosed. Take care.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to jayjay10000]

Hi jayjay

So sorry to hear you felt so bad on holiday - it really sucks and makes everything that much more dramatic & frightening . And of course you lose valuable days on holiday with the family.

It’s my fault of the later date I won’t let them do the angiogram till after my daughters wedding - she’s getting married October 7 th and I refused it before then incase they need to do stents ( highly possible that I will) . Looks like the CHD is what’s caused my AFib ( possibly ….) so am hoping if they do stent the AFib will slow down.

It’s such a personal journey for us all, we all have slightly different issues and a diff bunch of meds & reactions.

I had thought I could totally trust the Kardia - ie if it says AFib it is but sounds like that may not be true .

I can’t spend my life in A&E!

Hopefully inwilll know more oct 13 th

Wishing you the best with your journey

[Hidden]

I am not a Doctor… but do have experience with several types of arrhythmia..

Some things that help understand outset and natural treatments that help lessen or even stop these things.

Bigeminy ( trigeminy) yes the ectopic pattern can often run in groups of two three or four… this is often fixed by increasing potassium eating more potassium rich foods bananas spinach will help quite quickly.If you go to warm countries and sweat too much without replacing fluids you will “throw” electrolytes off balance.. add alcohol and you end up with “holiday heart” because you also lower your serum magnesium to boot.It is very common for people to drink more in hot countries and ending up with some sort of rhythm disturbance.

The best magnesium for heart related issues is Magnesium Taurate…(which is only found in abundance in heart muscle) a daily dose of 500mg… will correct most ectopics within a few days.. Two other types of magnesium will certainly help if used alternatively opposite ends of the day during very stressful times.. Threonate at night or glycinate first thing both very well absorbed.

Lastly consider D-ribose (yes it’s a form of sugar molecule)as a supplement this improves electrical signalling within the heart muscle… often ectopics are simply escaped pulse signals off the AV node that hops outside the normal pathways.

If you took one of these “V’s” you may improve symptoms by using nattokinase and bromelain…alongside astaxanthin… all the above have helped me through extreme ectopic episodes.. all these work alongside your prescribed medicines and improve recovery… or provide relief until you can get to a hospital or doctor to confirm the situation. Most ectopics are benign and happen in healthy hearts so do not think the worst.I have a 40 year history of them… and take no medication .. just supplements.

Best wishes from UK.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jomico

Thankyou for your considered response.

So firstly interesting what you say about hot countries I was recently admitted to hospital in Majorca in July with AFib & RVR in 36 degrees of heat! HR was over 160 and had to be cardioverted. I thought I was well hydrated but I guess not…

I already take magnesium but it’s Citrate and has 440mg of elemental magnesium - are you suggesting that this might not work for me? For ectopics and other arrhythmias? I would be Interested in your opinion.

I will check out the other supplements you mention.

What’s hard for me to know at present is how much AFib versus ectopics am I currently experiencing - thought I could trust my Kardia but now I’m unsure

The magnesium I take

[Hidden in reply to Nodoubt2]

Any magnesium is beneficial… it’s just that some are better absorbed… magnesium oxide for example only about 4% absorption…here’s the take home.. a blood test on serum will only measure the 1% in blood not the 39% in tissue or the 60% in bone.. so ratio wise you can get a rough idea… if 0.5 in blood then you are probably 50% deficient in tissue..

Taurate is found in heart muscle so it is logical to assume this is the most beneficial for that organ… it is certainly the choice for Afib.

All magnesium types facilitate up to 300 enzyme functions within your body… which in turn help towards a healthy output…digestion .. energy… thinking… sleeping… what’s not to like?…

Often taking a regular supply of any magnesium at 500 mg a day can take up to two years to restore optimum levels… if you take ppi … drink alcohol.. or have undue stress or illness then you use up reserves much quicker.

Food can provide magnesium to leafy greens like spinach (has the right ratio between calcium and magnesium blame God!)…rocket …bananas..dark chocolate..nuts..food sources are generally good ways to absorb but you would need huge portions to match a capsule… and even if you only absorb 10% … it’s better than none at all.

Research Dr Carolyn Dean.. who suggests picolated which is more easily absorbed… she has written several books and has a weekly podcast all about magnesium…worth a moment of your time.

[Qualipop in reply to Hidden]

What if your natural magnesium levels are above normal. A recent blood test showed mine were above normal range- not massively but s till over.

[Hidden in reply to Qualipop]

What is normal range?

Blood serum only measures 1% of the bodies level.. did you have the RBC magnesium levels checked more accurate?

[Qualipop in reply to Hidden]

I don't know, I'd have to go online to find out. There was just a result and it said abnormal because it was above the range quoted.

[Hidden in reply to Qualipop]

I hope you find some kind of solution to these issues.. they are not pleasant and often respond to a change in lifestyle… best wishes.

[frazeej in reply to Qualipop]

If you "overdose" on Mg, you'll poop more. That's about it.

JimF

[mcpacs]

I have Kardia. and if you are having ectopic beats, PVC's or PAC's, it will, in my experience, always say "Possible Atrial Fibrillation"....... You really should get the plan that allows a cardiologist on the Kardia staff to read the ECG. Every time I have requested them to read the ECG, it has never been Atrial Fibrillation but they have always read it correctly as ectopic beats. And the cardiologists on staff are very good to respond in a timely fashion. I have never had to wait very long for their interpretation of the ECG.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to mcpacs]

Thankyou I will give this a go. Is that the plan with a monthly charge? I thought you were only allowed one ecg reading per year but maybe I’ve got that wrong ?

[mcpacs in reply to Nodoubt2]

I just copied this off the Kardia website:

"Clinician Reviews are $25 per review, but KardiaCare members receive four free credits annually with their membership. Each credit provides you with one Clinician Review. That means you can have four EKGs reviewed by a cardiologist every year, free of charge with KardiaCare."

[Nodoubt2 in reply to mcpacs]

Thankyou so much for taking the time to check this out for me - I am going to pay to upgrade now - thankyou. I will also post the outcome of the review for those that are interested

[mcpacs in reply to Nodoubt2]

You're very welcome. I have used the cardiologist's review quite often and see it as a valuable service they provide.

[frazeej in reply to Nodoubt2]

Learn a little bit about ecg's and save yourself the fee!

[Alphakiwi]

IF you are on meds. the shakes can be side effects in my experience until your body gets used to them. My ECG has always been accurately showing NORMAL when I am well so i have always considered my ECG is also accurate if it says Afib and im feeling a bit unwell etc.A portableis really considered to be seen as an indicator and if you are concerned go and get it done on a 12 lead . Hope that reasoning helps.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to Alphakiwi]

Hi there

I’ve been on these meds now for over a month ( original meds from Jan this year ) so don’t think the feeling shaky is down to the meds. I take magnesium already ( magnesium citrate which has 440mg of elemental magnesium so would think that would mean this was covered?

I’ve sent the ecg off to my consultant and will see what he says ( I’m also already wearing a 7 day Holton monitor so the results of that will be interesting when I get them)

Thanks for taking the time to reply

[Samazeuilh2]

Kardia always says “possible AF” not “AF” because there is some small chance of a false positive reading. It’s a very accurate device however and it’s almost certain that if you receive that message it is indeed AF. You could email the Kardia ECG to your cardiologist for analysis, or even to arrhythmia nurses at your local hospital. It’s *possible* that a change in medication or dosage would reduce your episodes, but this would need discussion with the cardiologist. Unclassified readings don’t indicate the device is broken. It could be a number of things, but one common cause is that there was electrical interference during the reading. Healthy eating is important, but there is no guarantee it will reduce the frequency of episodes although it’s possible it would help.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to Samazeuilh2]

Thankyou for your reply. I plan to join Kardia care now so I can check with them if the ecg shows AFib or not. Since I had the new machine I have had much fewer readings that were stopped due to ‘electrical interference’ so maybe somehow the older machine somehow became very sensitive?

[Nightmare2]

Kardia ? i would not entertain this type of checking, I am diagnosed AFib in April, and had 2 episides since, am on b.blocker and Apixaban, not seen any cardio yet just my GP, i will only believe what i hear from face to face cardiologists and i now have my appointment in 2 weeks. self diagnosis or remote diagnosis for my own mind is just not good enough.

[Nodoubt2 in reply to Nightmare2]

Hi there

Thanks for your reply

I have already been diagnosed by a cardiologist with AFib ( and in deed have been cardioverted too) so it’s not in question if I have AFib - moreover if and when Kardia says I am in AFib am I? I’m trying to assess if my new med Flecainide is actually making it worse

[frazeej in reply to Nightmare2]

I was able to easily self diagnosis my afib from my Kardia print out, and the cardiologist agreed when he looked at it. Afib is not rocket science.

[Karendeena]

I had increased episodes on Flecainide and had to be changed to Sotalol