Heart rate watch/monitor

[Nickybhf]

Hi everyone,

I’m looking to get a watch or monitor for mum to measure her heart rate and show when she is in AF. Please could you share details or recommendations?

Thank you

[CDreamer]

How tech savvy is Mum?

iWatch will do both but depends upon if she would be able to use it or if you could for her?

[Buzby62 in reply to CDreamer]

And must have an iPhone as Apple iWatch will only work with an iPhone.

[Nickybhf in reply to CDreamer]

I think mum would be okay with the iwatch, she already has a iphone. The consultant said we don’t need to necessarily look at getting an iwatch as they are expensive, he said there are loads of others.

[Buzby62]

Have a look at the AFA information on understanding ECG monitors.

api.heartrhythmalliance.org...

Hope this is helpful

PS, in my opinion a monitor is not much help if in persistent or permanent AF as it will only tell you what you already know and cause you a whole load of extra anxiety.

[Nickybhf in reply to Buzby62]

Thank you, will look into the link you’ve shared.

[Buffafly]

Why do you think the monitor would be helpful? Only asking because you are both suffering from anxiety and you already know from the zio that your mother has persistent AF and the range of HR. So you need to think whether the monitor would be reassuring or helpful. Also bear in mind that most simple watch type monitors are not as accurate as a Kardia type. Best wishes

[Nickybhf in reply to Buffafly]

Thanks for your reply. I think if we have some kind of assurance that the watch/monitor show that mum is having episodes, then firstly I can reassure mum that it’s the AF that’s making her feel the way she is, and secondly, the cardiologist suggested we get something to measure the HR. I was reluctant at first as I know it may raise anxiety levels, but now I’m thinking at least we can be aware of HR and hopefully know if the increase in bisoprolol is helping reduce heart rate.

[Buffafly in reply to Nickybhf]

That is a sensible plan then and hopefully you can find a suitable monitor. As the cardiologist is particularly interested in rate then a Kardia or equivalent would be best as it measures all electrical signals, or an Apple Watch and phone if you are not concerned about the expense - they can be bought second hand.

[mjames1]

There are only two medical grade devices to choose from. Either the Apple Watch or Kardia. I have both and you can't go wrong with either. If you get the Kardia, I suggest the 6L version as it has better connectivity, can detect more arrythmia's and simply feels sturdier than the more basic version.

Jim

[Nickybhf in reply to mjames1]

Thank you Jim. Am I right in thinking that with the Kardia, you have to buy a subscription?

[mjames1 in reply to Nickybhf]

I don't know how it works in the UK because I'm from the US.. However, if you can afford the subscription for the first year, it may have certain advantages for you. But call or email them it's possible you don't need to buy one.

Jim

[Hidden in reply to Nickybhf]

No, you don't have to have a subscription to measure HR and AFib. The sub is to identify other arrythmias. It is available in the UK (£10 a month I think, from memory). You can take it out month to month - I took it for one month to check if there was anything else going on, which there wasn't.

Also, I got my Kardia 6L on eBay (new) and it was a lot less than the regular price so do check around. I have both an Apple watch and Kardia, they're both very good.

[Nickybhf in reply to Hidden]

Thank you

[Desanthony in reply to Nickybhf]

No you don't have to buy a subscription with Kardia it is just an option. I did think about this but decided it was no different than emailing the kardia reading to the cardio nurses or my EP.

[Nickybhf in reply to Desanthony]

Thank you

[BenHall1]

I can understand your wanting to monitor HR, but, what are you doing to monitor blood pressure. In one of your comments you say your Mum is on Bisoprolol. Technically this is a HR control drug with properties that some consultants deem suitable for blood pressure control also. What dose of Bisoprolol ? and what time of day does she take it ? Is your Mum on other medications that may clash with Bisoprolol ? What is your Mums BP doing when you are measuring HR ?

I have a Kardia 6L and you don't have to have a subscription. Mind you it is difficult to understand how a lay person can understand a reading . If it tells you you are in NSR thats fine but what if it tells you something else ? Have you the skills and training to interpret it. My understanding that in UK you can subscribe on an annual or monthly basis which will enable you to get a more specific analysis of a reading. But it still will not tell you blood pressure. That said if you are digitally savvy you can email a reading to your GP/Consultant or EP.

Sorry, but I seem to have posed more questions than answers to your original post.

[Nickybhf in reply to BenHall1]

We do have a blood pressure monitor, it’s just that the consultant suggested that some sort of device to monitor heart rate might be a good idea.

The bisoprolol is 3.75 mg - twice a day, one in morning & one in the evening. Mum is on other medication as she’s diabetic, and also on water tablet and Apixaban.

[BenHall1 in reply to Nickybhf]

Hi Nicky,

I suggested a BP monitor because most reputable brands ( like Omron or Microlife, there are others too ) these days give three readings what is known as .......... systolic/diastolic and HR. Gives these automatically - part of the norm. Does so, because most medical peeps use the relationship, so mine might be 135/78/69. It was actually these sort of readings that put me in A & E in the first place from where my AF was identified. The rest is history..... happily. Back in the day my BP and heart rate started off as around 136/80 with a HR of 76 within a matter of hours I ended up in A & E with a big drop in BP down to 76/50 and a HR of 156 bpm. Little wonder I felt rubbish. I might add a great many reputable brands of BP monitors ( arm/ cuff ) these days will not just give you a BP and HR reading but are so sensitive and the way they are calibrated will tell you if you wobbled your arm during a take ( giving a false inaccurate reading ) and even detect if the patient is actually in AF during the take. Many folk, such as I, can be symptomatic, that is be in AF and yet have no symptoms, yet it will be picked up by an appropriate BP monitor. Mercifully these days, I haven't had an AF event for about 4 years I'm now aged 79.

Gosh, your Mum is on quite a mix of medication, understandably so, have you considered seeking the advice of your local Pharmacist. Most large Pharmacies can arrange a consultation and get some advice on your Mum's mix of medication and see if there are any viable alternatives which will improve your Mum's quality of life as well as helping her health. Alternatively, maybe your surgery employs a Pharmacist who you could consult. My experience has been that GP's prescribe medication on goodness knows what random basis BUT they do not have the skill set of a Pharmacist ! Once you have had a Pharmacist review the medication then you could go back to the GP and request a further review .... with your evidence to hand ! Hopefully that would improve your Mums quality of life and health welfare too.

Good luck.

John

[Nickybhf in reply to BenHall1]

Thank you John. Hadn’t thought of that- speaking to pharmacist.

Our current BP monitor records the 3 measurements you’ve mentioned but not the AF. I didn’t realise that you could get BP monitors that could check AF. I suppose that could be another option. Thanks for your support John.

[Ersilia2 in reply to Nickybhf]

My BP monitor shows BP , Heart rate and if a heart shows up on top right hand corner it means it’s picked up an irregular heart beat. It’s an Omrom monitor . (Australia) If it picks up the irregular beat regularly then you see a Doctor.

[opal11uk]

I have a Fitbit.........easy to understand.

[ochinee in reply to opal11uk]

Yes on the Fitbit. I have the Charge 6 and it's about as accurate as the Kardia 6L.

Does a 30 sec ECG which is comparable to the Kardia EKG. Can tell you when in AFib and normal sinus rhythm. Also can set high and low bpm notifications.

The FitBit holds a charge up to 7 days.

[Nickybhf in reply to ochinee]

Thank you

[Nickybhf in reply to opal11uk]

Okay, thanks,

[Ppiman]

An Apple Watch, which I use and would highly recommend, will only detect variable pulse when used constantly, which is suggestive of AF. In my experience, just last week, I found the battery will need much more charging when the app is left on. Alternatively, the ECG app can be used frequently to get 30 second glimpses of the heart activity, and this will detect actual AF with good accuracy.

I also use the Wellue AI 24-hour monitor and that shows any AF (and much else) that occurs for any period up to a day. It's less convenient than a watch of course.

Steve

[Nickybhf in reply to Ppiman]

Thank you Steve. I am thinking of possibly going for the Apple Watch.

[Vonnegut]

I use a Kardia with an iPhone which I had not used before. Use the Kardia much less now that my current dose of Flecainide has virtually put an end to my AF episodes. I just use it occasionally now to see how well my heart is behaving or let others try it out- recently met an old friend who got an odd reading and is taking it up with his doc. I found it very useful previously when I just took Flecainide as a PIP and could trace how episodes went. I was around 75 when I was introduced to both these gadgets and am now 80 and find the smart phone a great companion!

[Nickybhf in reply to Vonnegut]

Thank you, good to hear your AF episodes have gone.

[Vonnegut in reply to Nickybhf]

Thanks but they’ve just been controlled by the Flecainide and that has side effects! Just caught your post before settling down to sleep so hope you make the right decision for your mum and goodnight!

[Nickybhf in reply to Vonnegut]

Thank you, goodnight

[bean_counter27]

"measure her heart rate and show when she is in AF"

"reassure mum that it’s the AF that’s making her feel the way she is"

Based on the above I presume your mother has paroxysmal AF and she normally feels it when she is.

That's me. I have a Withings Scanwatch which I use to check for AF when I'm out and about. It also does HR and the results for both show up on the watch as well as in the app on the phone the watch is linked to. So if I feel a few flutters or notice my HR has gone up for no apparent reason then I'll get my watch to check for AF (it does a 30 second recording) and it shows up the result on the watch (e.g. Normal or Signs of Atrial Fibrillation).

I also have a KardiaMobile 6L, which others have already mentioned. It's excellent but it isn't really something that I carry on me. It's not a standalone device either. Mine is linked to my phone and operated by an app on it (the phone).

I'll take the Kardia with me when I go away overnight or longer but it will be left in my hotel room for use when I return there if required.

The Kardia is definitely the better device (more reliable and 6 lead vs 1 lead) but my Scanwatch is always available. I can check for AF in the middle of the night without getting out of bed or even turning on a light - and the results are automatcially transferred to the Withings app on my phone. My Kardia generally isn't far away but takes a bit more effort to access and use.

I also have a Samsung Galaxy Watch 4 or 5. It basically needs charging up each day, which impacts its usefulness from my perspective. It can be used as a phone etc and if used extensively its charge won't even last a day. My Scanwatch is a hybrid watch - it has limited Smart functions but it means it can easily last several days on a charge (rated for 30 days but not the way I use it). I put it on charge when I shower and put it back on after showering - which generally gets it back to 100% charge.

The apps for the Kardia and the Scanwatch both keep the ECG recordings including HR and allow you to attach notes for referring to when discussing/showing your doctor.

There are a number of options to do what you want most of which have been flagged by forum members. Suggest you look at reviews of the various devices on YouTube so you can determine what's likely to meet your/your mother's needs, ease of operation, convenience and reliability.

[Nickybhf in reply to bean_counter27]

Thank you, I’ve not heard of the Scanwatch so will look into that. Seems like the Kardia is a popular choice.

Mum actually has permanent AF, but due to her increased anxiety symptoms, I’m sure the are related to the HR. That’s why I think a device would be good and I can reassure her that it’s the HR causing her to feel this way.

[Stetson]

I have an Apple Watch Series 7 that tells me when I am in Afib and also monitors heart rate and will also take ekg to send to Doc.

[bean_counter27 in reply to Stetson]

How long does a charge last and how long does it take to recharge? My wife has one and she puts on charge at night because she needs it during the day for exercise tracking and other Smartwatch functions. Means she doesn't get any use out of it overnight but that doesn't worry her. She doesn't have AF and not interested in sleep analysis etc.

[Stetson in reply to bean_counter27]

Takes about 25 minutes to charge for full day of use.

[Thomas45]

In a post 10 days ago you said the results of your mother had "Permanent AF and HF". HF isn't anything to cause anxiety, it means the heart is not working 100% efficiently. There are 3 specific definitions of Atrial Fibrillation used in the UK..

"Paroxysmal AF" is when a person gets epsodes of AF. These episodes can last for minutes or several hours or days, but the heart reverts to its normal rhythm (called Normal Sinus Rhythm or NSR) before 7 days is up. I used to get paroxysmal AF for episodes lasting between 5 and 19 hours.

"Persistent AF" is defined as being in AF for more than 7 days, without the heart reverting to NSR.

"Permanent AF" is defined as the person with Persistent AF has agreed with a GP or consultant that no medical intervention, e.g. tablets, cardioversions, or ablations, will make the heart revert to NSR. I'm in that group. My heart beats out of sequence all the time. It's been beating out of sequence for over 7 years I wasn't prescribed beta blockers as I also have long-term asthma. I can't actually feel any symptoms. The only medication I take for my AF is an anticoagulant.

A watch or monitor for me would me and anyone else who has Persistent or Permanent AF would be a waste of money.

I suspect your mother has paroxysmal AF. Some people find Apple Watches, or fitbits, etc helpful. When I had paroxysmal AF I knew when they occurred, which on the medication I had wasn't very often. I didn't need a watch to tell me.

The trouble with watches and monitors is that people can over-use them, which can cause anxiety.

[Nickybhf in reply to Thomas45]

Thank you for your reply.

The consultant said mum has permanent AF, he said the increased dose of bisoprolol should help keep the HR below 80 as it has been higher, this was shown with the 7 day Zia monitor. For us, the main reason I’m considering the watch or monitor is to make sure the HR is below 80 as I want to make sure that the bisoprolol is working, plus the consultant recommended that we get something to monitor HR.

[dixiedad]

I have a Kardia card and the Kardia app on my phone. The card is the size of a credit card. Carry it in your purse or wallet. ECG any time you want. Tells you if you're in afib or NSR.

$79 USD. store.kardia.com/products/k...

[Thomas45 in reply to dixiedad]

If you can't feel it, why would you want to know?

[bean_counter27 in reply to Thomas45]

My symptoms are vague when I'm having an episode so I want to know if I am having AF episode or not, so I can:

- confirm it's that and not something else causing me to feel a bit "strange";

- record it on ECG in case my cardiologist wants to look at it;

- note duration and anything else of potential interest, including possible triggers to avoid; and

- determine frequency of episodes for reporting to cardiologist during annual checkup.

In the absence of other factors like Covid, the frequency and duration of my AF episodes are key indicators of the effectiveness of my medications (dosages and types) and potential indicator of whether my PAF is progressing.

I can understand why some don't want to know whether they are in AF or not but from my perspective there's much to be gained from knowing.

[Thomas45 in reply to bean_counter27]

Thank you. When I had paroxysmal AF I felt it in the main artery in my neck. Once the cardiologist had found the right medication and dose, 300mg of Flecainide a day, I only had 1 or 2 short (10 minutes) episodes per year. After 12 years of Flecainide I was found to be in persistent AF which is asymptomatic After discussion with medics I've agreed it's permanent. My only medication is an anticoagulant. I have had Permanent AF for at least 7 years.

[bean_counter27 in reply to Thomas45]

My PAF episodes are longer and more frequent than yours were but they are trending down. Already on 300mg Flecainide but hoping to manage triggers better. Think I'm making progress, been 2 months since last episode. If I was persistent I wouldn't be recording my AF either.