longer episodes of afib

[crazyvlad]

hi,I guess I'd like to have opinions on longer episodes of afib, like 10 + days or longer. apart from the obvious actions such as keeping one's blood thin and resistant to clotting by either utilizing drugs or alternative blood thinning agents, is there anything else that one should consider, such as the more invasive treatments of cardioversion or ablation? if so, at what point? my heart rate when in an episode runs between 60 to 65 BPM which allows me to live a reasonably normal life apart from worrying about it all. at this heart rate, is there a chance of the heart becoming weaker in time?

and a happy new 2024 to you all,

crazy

[BenHall1]

G'day crazyvlad,

Happy New Year to you too. Given your disclosure I can't really say whether your heart will become weaker in time ... each heart is different, like the rest of our component parts.

So, the only way that I am aware of as to how we can tell the state of our heart and heart electronics is to have an Echocardiogram ( ECG or EKG). Fer instance, I had one as a routine check in Nov 2022 and my earlier one was in October 2020. The guy doing the ECG was different to the 2020 one, but my GP was the same. I did ask this guy what state it was in and he shrugged his shoulders and said weeeelllll .... its certainly done alot of hard work ! To which I retorted "well if you were 79 yours would have too". My GP rather blandly said that it was consistent with age. When I got a copy of the ECG I spoke to her again and pinned her down on the differences between to 2020 ECG and the 2022 ECG, and yes there had been a noticeable deterioration in the condition of the heart.

I can't remember when I last had an AF event, at least 18 months maybe as long ago as 4 years however, I am well and truly medicated and my average resting HR is 67 bpm. So, take from my ramblings what you will but the only way that I know of as to accurately answer your question is for an ECG.

I would add that I was diagnosed in January 2010 I declined/dismissed the notion of a cardioversion or an ablation and have never had either - just meds for life.

John

[Hidden]

Well, well ... I have heard of HR being 80-90 bpm when in an episode of AF, but 60-65 is way too low... What is your resting HR when not in an arrhythmia? People with not through medication induced low resting HR can be as low as 40-50 and than, when jumping into AF, HR may go to 80-90 and that's also low for AF. Are you sure you are in AF when in an arrhythmia?

[BrotherThomas in reply to Hidden]

Interesting comments, my guess would be that I would be considered to be in permanent AF but my cardiologist doesn't seem to want to share information with his customers. Apart from being able to feel arrhythmia when I take a radial pulse, I'm totally asymptomatic. My weekly average heart rate is 63 - 67 with occasional readings up to 77 and down to 55.

One of the problems with AF is that it affects different people in so many different ways.

[Hidden in reply to BrotherThomas]

I am also asymptomatic, with AF bouts mostly at night. When I take my pulse, it is irregular and I have noticed that, when I take the breath, my pulse reacts with immediate increasing, but than goes quickly down. At day, I function perfectly well, without noticeable arrhythmia and without any symptoms. So far, so good...

[jeff1257 in reply to BrotherThomas]

If your doctor doesn’t want to share your information, I’d get a new doctor.

[BrotherThomas in reply to jeff1257]

Yeah, I'm working on it.

[crazyvlad in reply to Hidden]

I think that i'm in AF when in an arrhythmia, well, the Kardia device says "possible AF". the heart typically beats at 65 BPM with no thumping action, quite smoothly. if i look at chads score it stands at 2 for my age, everything else being normal. i went to see a cardio guy 3 months ago, he checked my pulse and blood pressure, went over the ECG which showed arrhythmia, echocardiogram was normal with no structural problems, holter was normal and bloodwork results were all normal as well. he said that i have afib and suggested a drug edoxaban which does not have bleeding antidote so i'm hesitating using it. i take no drugs and use nattokinase 6000 mg/day, also lots of Mg, vit C, vit B, garlic, resveratrol, CoQ10, evening primrose oil, Zn, quercetin, krill oil ta name a few. my normal heart rate when in sinus rhythm is around 55 BPM. i'm planning to go for the fibrinogen blood test. i wish allopaths would provide us with some solutions as how to really cure arrhythmias but all they have are drugs and ablation. they don't know real reasons why so many people have heart arrhythmias. quite discouraging, really...

[Hidden in reply to crazyvlad]

I gladly remember the data given as numbers, trying to learn where the limits are, not only for HR and BP, but also for many other things. "Possible AF" sometimes means SVT, but nobody can tell for sure, not even the MDs, lol. Your data are definitely the lowest until now and I will remember them for sure.

I am going my own way with AF, I take no medication, not even the anticoagulants. In my view, AF does not cause the stroke. Even more, when in AF, people are less likely to get a stroke. This just as an interesting possibility, which has yet to be proven. I also do not take supplements - everything we need is there, in everyday food (if feeding correctly). My BP is increased, but also no medications for me.

[Tomred in reply to Hidden]

Hi Nesko, could you further input on, where you say , even more ,when in af people are less likely to get a stroke, have you any links or data to support this , quote, would be of interest . thanks

[Hidden in reply to Tomred]

Hello, Tom! I was dealing with alternative and ancient methods of healing for a while, so believe to know things that modern medicine does not recognize. There is a linear coordinate in our bodies, which rules the processes in the body. It is not known to MDs and therefore they are not successful in analyzing what's going on when it comes to some health issues. My hanging on the forum is with the purpose to check my hypotheses via the analyses of experiences of the patients here. It seems to be OK, but I would need much more time to be able to say something with certainty. For now, I do not dare to say more, having the fear to possibly make mess on the forum. If I say to you that everything seems to me to be upside down, you will say that I am definitely on "something", lol.

[Tomred in reply to Hidden]

thanks for your open minded approach Nesko, when you can elaborate i know you will. cheers from Ireland.

[CDreamer]

Having glanced at a few of your posts and before commenting I would like to ask you:-

How do you know you have or are in AF?

Have you ever been diagnosed by a doctor? If so, when was the last time you saw a doctor about your Arrythmia?

Which, if any, tests have you had - ECG, Echocardiogram, Blood Tests, BP?

Are you self medicating - especially ‘blood thinners’?

[crazyvlad in reply to CDreamer]

I think that i'm in AF when in an arrhythmia, well, the Kardia device says "possible AF". the heart typically beats at 65 BPM with no thumping action, quite smoothly. if i look at chads score it stands at 2 for my age, everything else being normal. i went to see a cardio guy 3 months ago, he checked my pulse and blood pressure, went over the ECG which showed arrhythmia, echocardiogram was normal with no structural problems, holter was normal and bloodwork results were all normal as well. he said that i have afib and suggested a drug edoxaban which does not have bleeding antidote so i'm hesitating using it. i take no drugs and use nattokinase 6000 mg/day, also lots of Mg, vit C, vit B, garlic, resveratrol, CoQ10, evening primrose oil, Zn, quercetin, krill oil ta name a few. my normal heart rate when in sinus rhythm is around 55 BPM. i'm planning to go for the fibrinogen blood test. i wish allopaths would provide us with some solutions as how to really cure arrhythmias but all they have are drugs and ablation. they don't know real reasons why so many people have heart arrhythmias. quite discouraging, really...

[Thomas45]

Anticoagulants, also erroneously called "blood thinners", do not thin the blood. They delay coagulation.

[mjames1]

"my heart rate when in an episode runs between 60 to 65 BPM which allows me to live a reasonably normal life apart from worrying about it all."

-----------------------

Are you truly symptomatic while in afib, or just "reasonably normal" which might imply something less than when you're in normal rhythm? And if less than optimal, is that ok with you, or something you'd like to improve upon?

If you're truly asymptomatic, then arguably you don't need treatment, other than thinners, as long as your heart rate stays low. If you would prefer something more than "reasonably normal" out of life, then you might consider either a medical or surgical intervention like ablation. An electro cardio-version might be a good way to start, depending on the frequency of your episodes.

As to your heart "becoming weaker" over time, here is where monitoring comes in with an ep and well versed cardiologist. Periodic echo's and perhaps other testing would be in order.

Jim

[crazyvlad in reply to mjames1]

i'd say that i'm reasonably normal when experiencing afib, like 80% of when in normal sinus rhythm. can do anything but running, for instance. but the mind knows that something is off and then there is a certain level of concern. i've given some thought to cadioversion but am not ready for it, seems quite drastic, the same applies to ablation. last time i had echocardiogram, it showed ejection fraction at 60%, with normal atrias and ventricles. all valves normal with tricuspid valve showing very mild regurgitation. yes, thx for the good idea re periodical echo checks.

[mjames1 in reply to crazyvlad]

It's a personal decision, but for me, I would not settle for 80% when there are other options. I don't know enough about your history, but I can say from my experience that electro cardioversion is not a big deal. It makes a lot of sense when your episodes are few and far between. Then there's medical management and ablation. You didn't mention if you're seeing an EP or not, but that would be a good idea. If you remain in a fib for too long, your options will become limited because your heart will start to remodel.

Jim