Have any of you been put on statins just because you have Afib ? As you all know I had my ablation last November and recently had my bloods done and my cholesterol was 5.7 so I was told by the doctors receptionist that I have two choices I either book an appointment to see the nurse about it or I can have my bloods done in another three months so decided to have bloods done in three months.Well I have just had a call from my surgery to say I have to go on statins which I didn’t want to do but was also told that if I didn’t go on them I am at risk from heart attack and stroke talk about trying to frighten someone, I didn’t think my cholesterol was too high but sounds like it is.so my question is how many of you are on statins because you have Afib.
Afib and cholesterol : Have any of you... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Afib and cholesterol
Statins are a pet for doctors as they get house points if you are on them. AF does not make you more at risk and of course if you are on anticoagulants that covers stroke anyway. Bottom line is it is your choice.
I nearly had an argument with the bloke that phoned me up he told me I had to go on them, the way that he said it was if I didn’t go on them then I could have a heart attack so I wasnt impressed.
I live in South Africa and use Private medical care, When my total cholesterol was six , my doctor suggested I take a statin (there is no monetary incentive for her at all) . I took 10mgs at first, but that lowered my cholesterol too much (to 2) I now take 5mgs a day and it stays around 4 (I've just given bloods, so will know in a couple of days if it is staying there !) -, I was on this regimen before I was diagnosed with AF, so it is a separate issue, but I have no side effects with this low dose. You could do what a doctor friend of my son's did, he had not had a heart attack but his arteries were getting a bit 'furred up' so he had stents put in before the heart attack happened!
My bloods have come back, cholesterol 4.2 on 5mg of atorvastatin per day. Doctor is happy with that (not too low, that needs to be avoided) and not too high. My diet includes full fat plain yoghurt, lots of cheese but not a lot of red meat which makes me wonder if as far as diet is concerned red meat is the cholesterol baddie.!
Had a a similar conversation with a GP yesterday. It used to be a 7 cut off point but apparently, 5 is the new 7.
I said I'd try and manage it with diet and lifestyle first. He mumbled about blood pressure and clogged arteries until I told him my blood pressure was great and a recent cardiac CT showed no coronary artery disease. He's grudgingly suggested we re-visit in 6 months.
GPs seem obsessed with statins but a friend who is ex NHS and volunteers for her local patients association said GPs are encouraged to get anyone over 50 on statins as a prophylactic.
Just need to be good now for 6 months 😊.
Ps.... the stroke risk is from fat clots rather than blood so anticoagulants are unlikely to help 😊.
Hi
I am on Thyroxin and I think that is known to cause cholesterol to rise.
The h/specialist say that he wants me at 4 for cholesterol and under 2 for triglycerides. The latter 1.8 & 5.7 down to after good cholesterol removed 1.
cheri JOY
It is not being on thyroxine that causes cholesterol to rise. It is not having enough thyroxine !
Oh
OK
I am always at the high end of thyroxine keeping my TSH at 2.0.
But I needed a slight rise in thyroxine when CCB Calcium Channel Blocker was introduced.
Cheers JOY
But Statin Avorstatin interferes with CCB Diltiazem.
error
Hi Mav
CCBs are worth a try through your specialized heart guy Surgeon.
It needs to be done carefully though. The 180mg was too high.
Settled with 120mg and 2.5mg separated at night.
I'm told you need to be patient after any Ablation. Persistent AF needs nore than once.
I've just been on another post. An excellent look atstatins. Your email address is so I can send it?
cheers JOY. 74. (NZ)
Hi
Found it MAGSY15 gives us a research video on STATINS.
Its worth a look.
A personal decision. I was aware that someone made money over
Statins.
What are we, nonhumans in a base of experiments. We could die!
Come on medical I had my Johnson & Johnson TVT removed! Last March. It went through a female part. NZ depended on USA, Canada and Australia for uptodate news of this product. Mine was put in in 2003.
I had the top surgeon to remove it.
Use of pads are resolving thank goodness.
Johnson & Johnson lied and refined surveys to suit selling their product.
My heart goes out to woman and hernia victims which surgeries used this product.
Delve into any information that you can get on your meds and other products.
Much damage can potentially be done.
cheers JOY
Hi again
When I read that you are on Metroprolol my heart sunk.
After the stroke NZ ultimately put us on Metrprolol even though I warned them because I will be breathless and fatigued. I was given 3 x 24.75 tabswith the right to reduce. I couldnt walk up my driveway.
A 24 monitor showed a H/R avge day of 187. Night 47 with 2 pauses of 2 seconds at night.
NZ have now learnt that Bisprolol is more suitable for A.fers.
But another 24-monitor showed 156 avg day and 47 night.
On CCB Diltiazem 120mg morning 2.5mg Bisoprolol night controlled @ 77-88 H/R day and 47 at night.
CONTROLLED.
On 23 December Hr dropped mornings but Dr away I reverted to Bisoprolol. STOP the Dr returned . 3 ECGs bad uncontrolled.
Sp resettled on Diltriazem 120mg morning 2.5 Bisoprolol at night .. superb
121/66. 68 H/R
BP rises during the day and H/R to 77.
cheri JOY 74. (NZ)
I told a GP at my surgery yesterday I'd rather try being good to reduce my cholesterol rather than go on statins and he's grudgingly agreed.
However, the stroke risk in this instance refers to fat clots rather than blood so anticoagulants are unlikely to help there.
He also said I may need to consider B12 supplements in future until I told him I already take them on a repeat prescription from his surgery and have done for the past 3 years!
Doesn't inspire confidence does it?
Whenever the goalposts are changed regarding health measuring factors of any kind, then you can bet that there is a drive to push certain pharmaceuticals. Profit driven reasons and not much to do with our health concerns. Call me cynical! 🤔
I would call you cynical but I agree 100% 😁.
Ducky you can call me whatever you like lol.😁 My name is Lynn but dad called me Dopey, and a friend called me Burt - not sure why! My partner calls me the dragon.😅🥰
🤣. Hubby calls me Duck, amongst other things, and a friend calls me Monkey....... definitely an animal theme going on 😁.
Ang 😊.
Gawd. An identity crisis and AF. Aren't we the lucky ones.😳☺️
I can only tell you what I would do if I had a cholesterol level at the rate yours is and that's refuse to take them, but you have to decide for yourself. It's a very personal decision.
Jean
I cannot see the connection between AF and statins - other than statins can reduce inflammation which can trigger AF. Sorry I don’t buy the Cholesterol theory and I certainly wouldn’t take a statin and my total cholesterol hovers around 7 - but my surgery and I have the conversation every year just so they can tick the box and get paid.
By the way I don’t think it is in the receptionist remit to advise on any medications, that is your doctor’s job - personally I would be making a complaint about their bullying behaviour, no way to speak to anyone!
It is your decision, make it an informed one and read the pros and the cons. I found the Cholesterol Forum on HU very good, but the BHF very biased toward statins.
Hiya CD,
Yeah, I'm back ........... having read the original post I must say my reaction was exactly the same as yours ( as in your 2nd para), if not even stronger, maybe also making a complaint to the head of the local CCG.
As an aside. I was first put on statins in 2007, 3 years before AF mugged me. I'm still on them and to be honest I have no idea if they are doing me good, bad or indifferent. At the last blood tests mine was 3.3. My sister on the other hand has a figure of 7 and has had that for years and takes statins too. 😱
The only difference between bruv and sis is that she doesn't diet in any way. As you know I do diet as part of my lifestyle plan in dealing with AF, including taking Warfarin.
Forgot to say my email account stays the same as does my User Name ... no changes.
John
Good to have you back John.
Anticoagulants such as NOAC, which afibers take daily to protect them stroke, work only against blood clots forming because of stagnation of blood in the left atrial appendage. The mechanism of stroke due to plaques dislodged from inner of the arteries is different. Platelets will come and surround the plaques and clumping together to form the blood clots. Two different mechanisms. Dr. Google does not explain it. You thought DOAC will cover it. Nope. Only antiplatelet drugs are aspirin and clopidogrel need to be used. When you are under triple therapy (DOAC + aspirin + clopidogrel), i.e. after stent, your bleeding risks are up to the roof.
CAD/CVD and Afib risk factors are listed in my previous posts. The biggest one is dyslipidemia ( high cholesterol and/or high triglycerides). It causes plaques to grow and block coronary arteries , carotid arteries and leg arteries and causing aneurysm of the aorta.
AFib does not kill as long as you control your heart rate and take DOAC but CAD/CVD kills millions of people around the world a year. How many people drop dead you see around you daily or thru the news because of heart attack, it is the plaques due to high cholesterol or triglycerides. It is not a conspiracy theory or big pharma scam.
CAD/CVD and Afib are progressive diseases and they are the causes and consequences of each other. So better take statins. Plaques manifest only when you have a stroke or coronary arteries are 75% blocked and start giving you chest pain. Then it is too late.
So when you have plaques in your arteries due to cholesterol, your plaques are everywhere, not just in the heart. To get the proof, ask your GP for a CT heart scan calcium score and it will let you know and this test does not show soft plaques. Only CT angiogram scan or MRI heart scan can confirm the extend of your plaques in the heart. I just talk about the heart, not the carotid arteries or other arteries in your body. I hope I convey correctly the risks factors of CAD/CVD and Afib.
In a nutshell, your body, your choices.
There is no actual scientific proof that cholesterol causes atherosclerosis. It is a myth birthed by feeding huge amounts of it to rabbits ( herbivores) , followed by the cherry picking studies of Ancel Keynes and one that has been carefully nurtured by Pharma helped by the sugar industry. Before statins there was a class of cholesterol lowering drugs called fibrates . They lowered cholesterol very efficiently but their effect on CVD was zilch. Any beneficial effect statins might have on CVD is to do with their modest anti inflammatory properties not cholesterol lowering. There are lots of other anti inflammatory things one can take that do not have the bad side effects of statins. Statistics collected on patients who enter hospital with an MI do not show that they have high cholesterol levels . There are just as many with "normal " or low cholesterol levels . What is more large scale epidemiological studies done in Scandinavia show that older people ( particularly women) with higher cholesterol ie above the "magic " but totally arbitrary 5 nmol/ l live longer, die less of CVD and gain no benefit from statins . Any benefit of statins has been shown by meta analyses to be extremely modest ie for primary prevention a life extension of a few days for 5 years of statin use. Side effects can be bad . There is even some Japanese research showing that statins contribute to CHF. Given that enlargement of the heart is a risk with afib it seems logical that statins would actually be contraindicated. They also increase risk of diabetes which would put up the CHADSVASC score. They definitely inhibit the production of co enzyme Q 10 which is probably the cause muscle pain leading to making exercise more difficult. CAD and afib are not caused by each other. One is plumbing the other is electrics. You might as well say a blocked pipe in your house is caused by faulty wiring.
did you have a heart scan calcium score and cat scan angiogram or mri angiogram? The whole world medical community has a consensus after 5 decades of studies that high cholesterol and triglycerides are causing plaques in the arteries among other risks factors. And the same whole world medical community has a consensus of using statins to treat this condition. I try to convey the relationship between CAD/CVD and Afib. Out of 10 strokes I saw, 2 are hemorrhagic ones, the remaining are ischemic ones. Out of these 8 ones , 2 are Afib related and the 6 ones are due to plaques. Have you seen a patient with stroke who is mute or hemiplegic or in the coma?
I try to convey the misconception that DOAC protects people from having strokes from plaques. DOAC don’t . It protects people from strokes due to Afib or DVT and blood clots in autoimmune diseases only not from plaques from atherosclerosis.
As I said your body your choices. I cannot force people to believe whatsoever they don’t want to believe.
The medical consensus in the 17 th and 18th centuries was that mercury and arsenic were great cures. Before that it was blood letting for everyone. The medical consensus in the early and mid 20th century was that 6 week strict bed rest was necessary for MI patients. The cardiologist who tried to go against this by getting his patients out of bed and sitting in a chair was treated as a Nazi and greeted on his ward rounds with Seig Heil salutes from students and colleagues. The medical consensus is continually being overthrown. There is controversy over the cholesterol theory of atherosclerosis and it is not supported by "facts". If it were true why did fibrates fail ? Why is it that high cholesterol is no more common in MI patients than in controls? Why is it that all statin trials since trial procedures were tightened in the early 2000s have failed to show the more spectacular benefits of pre tightening trials? DOACs have nothing to do with this and nobody is suggesting that they do. They are not anti aggregants . Nor are statins. If you are so taken with the notion of the medical consensus must be right you should read the story of Semmelweis - or Marshall who discovered that ulcers are often caused by infection with h. pylori and can be cured with antibiotics. The manufacturers of Zantac along with their "pet" gastroenterologists fought back hard against this to maintain the consensus just as statin manufacturers do with their KOLs in cardiology.
There is no actual scientific proof that cholesterol causes atherosclerosis.
mayoclinic.org/diseases-con...
my.clevelandclinic.org/heal...
I will choose to take the word of the Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic (two highly rated research hospitals in the US).
Based on your posting history, I realize you may consider this a conspiracy.
May I respectfully ask that you consider paragraphs in your replies ?
These two articles are not scientific proof of cholesterol causing CHD. They are consensus opinion pieces. I suggest that you look at the blog of Dr Malcolm Kendrick who has written in great detail ( including 2 books) about why this consensus does not make sense. There are other doctors ( including cardiologists) who do not accept the whole animal fat/ cholesterol / heart disease theory. If you read French I would suggest the works of Dr Michel de Lorgeril author of the Lyon study on the Mediterranean diet. Or the work of Dr Uffe Ravnskov the founder of THINCS .The Cleveland clinic piece was particularly bad . It even repeated the old chestnut of the link between diet and cholesterol.
No I don't think the "cholesterol causes heart disease" theory a conspiracy- just bad science reinforced by an effective business model. Of course you are free to choose to take the word of Mayo and Cleveland on this rather than look at alternative views . As I have pointed out many times here - the history of medicine teaches us that the medical consensus turns out to be wrong a lot of the time.
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Malco...
Respect your opinion.
Above is Kendrick's wiki for those that may want to review.
Oh dear!
Auriculaire. Excellent summary. I couldn't agree more. I know many people who have had nasty side effects from them and one friend who developed pancreatitis, which her GP said was probably a result of the effect of statins. Many more saying they had muscle weakness.
Pancreatitis is very nasty. There is a physiological explanation for the muscle aches - the prevention of co enzyme Q 10 production. This problem was known about right from the beginning by the statin manufacturers . Indeed one of them (Merck maybe? ) took out a patent to include co enzyme Q 10 in their statin formulation so as to counteract this. In the end it was never included maybe because the other statin manufacturers weren't bothering and it would have made the product more expensive. However advice was not given that patients on statins should supplement with Q10. Most doctors are ignorant about this. Maybe because they did not want too close scrutiny of what other essential compounds are made on the mevalonate pathway that statins block .
That's really interesting. You come up with some fascinating information. Thank you.😊
I've been on statins since 1998 reading of 13 then had quad heart by pass, 2004 small heart attack, 2013 AF my last reading was 3.5 now remeded ablation, also have Brattcardia, never had problems with Phizer stating although some people have had problems, nearly 80 years old active was still working plumber up till 6 months ago had covid last June, gut bug in Spain September, got home pulse was 140 so went hospital recommendations Ablation, and a sort of bad cold last Dec lasted 6 weeks, take the statins, hope your better safe than sorry, good luck
I was told I was put on statins not because of my afib but rather because my LDL levels were too high. I take Eliquis to protect against heart attack/stroke.
Hi
Was your cholesterol 5.7 after Dr takes off good cholesterol to reduce it?
My DHB Heart Specialist says he wants me at 4.
The good. cholesterol taken off, count was 4.7.
When the stroke happened 4 days later my carotid arteries were squeaky clear
of any cholesterol.
My stroke was a blood clot due to AF and thyroid cancer present. I take PRADAXA the anti-coagulant.
If you are careful with your eating up to 1 week before the test your cholesterol should be reduced. Its basically what you eat FAT.
I hate statins too. A medical magazine said that cholesterol cannot be measured.
Sometimes I will take my10mg Avorastatin for a few days.
How was your level of triglycerides? 2 or less is best.
Did you fast till the test?
cheri JOY. 74. (NZ)
hi yes I did fast before the test and all they told me about my result was that it was 5.7 and to make it worse I took the heart monitor off on Wednesday and now have gone back in to unclassified with a fast heart rate so looks like a second ablation could be on the Cards. Going back to the cholesterol I think I am just going to have to take the tablets I don’t want to but I now feel frightened if I don’t.
OK
But demand only 10mg Avrostatin.
CCB Calcium Channel Blocker reduced my heart rate substantially.
BB don't bring down H/Rate in a big way.
Try another med but you need to wait for the scarring to heal.
I can't have an ablation with an enlarged heart chamber.
cheri JOY
Each year I get a letter telling me I should take statins and have always refused. My cholesterol level is usually around 5.7 but my good cholesterol reading is higher than LDL however with the last 2 years, especially lockdowns my cholesterol increased to 6.4, which was of some concern to me.
I read a very interesting book on statins last year, written by Aseem Mulhotra, cardiologist, which gives an insight on cholesterol, statins and its uses. It is stated that by reducing or eliminating sugar, rather than fat, as much as is possible will help. My cholesterol is now 5.7 again and I am looking forward to seeing if it is reduced further at my next blood test as I continue to control sugar and carbohydrate intake. This is my story and of course, may not be the same for you or others but the book is worth a read as it provides information on things GP’s and even some cardiologists don’t tell us so we can make informed choices.
As others have mentioned it is your choice as to what you feel comfortable doing given your specific circumstances. Best wishes.
See my reply to Seanjax above. On an anecdotal level my last blood tests showed a cholesterol level of over 7. My LDL was over range a bit but my HDL was very high. The doctor said he was happy with all my blood tests apart from my over range TSH - which could account for the higher cholesterol. Have you got a breakdown of your blood tests into LDL and HDL ? Your LDL might very well be in range but your total cholesterol be put above 5 by a higher HDL. You should not allow yourself to be frightened . Older women do not benefit from statins and the statin trials have not been able to show that they do. In fact they are more likely to enjoy good health with higher cholesterol levels than you have ! Nobody can force you to take any drug if you do not wish to and I agree with some of the other posters- you should complain about the bullying behaviour of the surgery.
They no longer test for triglycerides in the UK.
It is not fat that is the bad guy, it is sugar. Your body converts sugar into fat.
hi
Well my Dad was borderline Diabetic as he joined the army.
I do not have a sweet tooth. No sugar added. An occasional piece of cake.
No desert.
Some fruit.
cheri JOY
Its difficult. My take from personal experience and reading principally here is....
What is your history of cholesterol, mine has been consistent around 7 for 25 years? Have you any comorbidities, I haven't? Have you had a heart and carotid artery check recently, I had 8 years ago & all clear?
On balance I have decided to postpone taking statins.
PS It is pretty much 'gloves off' with the medics these days albeit sugar coated to remain polite & keep their cooperation.
My personal experience is that on my cardiovascular review my Cholesterol level had shot up from 4.3 to 6.5 . My lifestyle and diet was pretty healthy and I’m not overweight and exercise regularly . I was due my annual echo so mentioned to my cardiologist the blood test results and he decided to carry out a CT scan of my heart and coronary arteries. He called me with the results ( due to Covid it took 3 months from start to finish ) and said there was some plaque build up generally but at a level he would expect for someone of my age . His advice was to to start statins to control any further build up in years to come where it would become a possible issue . He wrote to my GP who put me on low dose Atorvastatin and booked a blood test for 3 months time . My cholesterol level was 3.2 and has remained at that level for the last 12 months. My last ablation in August seems to have been successful, my last echo shows no deterioration in my aortic stenosis and I don’t suffer from any side effects from the statins and anticoagulants I’m taking currently so therefore see no negative aspect of using them.
That's something I'd want in future if mine continues to rise. Like you, not overweight, and healthy lifestyle with regular moderate exercise. Am.hoping mine was due to hypothyroidism, which recently took a dive in wrong direction. How long did you have to wait for CT scan?
I would suggest you get a FULL cholesterol test done privately by a company such as Thriva for instance (there are others out there). They give you a comprehensive breakdown of your cholesterol and a doctor gives a report and advice.
I had exactly the same nonsense! 5.7 isn't that high. Mine is 5.6. Am also 8.5 stone! Ask what is the ratio of 'good' to 'bad cholesterol - that's they key point. I requested a phonecall about this. A more enlightened and older GP said he had no concerns since I had more good than bad cholesterol in my readings and explained that as an older female with AF I automatically score high on the cardiovascular risk assessment. This is even though I've had an ablation and AF free since last May and no structural issues. You can go on the BFH website and do the score yourself. It's a blunt instrument that IMO should be used simply as a guide by GPs. Requires interpretation.
You do not have to go on statins. Or any other meds if you don't want to. And it's inappropriate of your surgery to relay this info via reception. Needs unpacking with a proper chat.
I would just like to add that Fat in the diet is not always relevant to everyone - it’s the microbes you have in your gut and your lifestyle which regulate how you clear fat from your bloodstream. Having finished the Zoe gut testing I know that I haven’t got the magic microbes which clear fat so I have to work a lot harder than others who have to regulate the fat after eating - go for walk after dinner for instance - eat greens before eating fat etc.
My total Cholesteral is 7 and I know the doctors don’t like that but it does not concern me.
On the other hand my blood sugar levels are steady as a rock - even after eating cake 🤷♀️
There is no one fit for all but until we all move on and individualised medicine is more accessible we will have these sorts of biases thrust upon us.
Just my opinion.
And a very helpful one too. I also don't have the magic bean! Blood sugar is a but sensitive but doing the Zoe Programme has put me on my case. I definitely did not want statins! Prefer better QOL for shorter time in that's my lot.
There are higher correlations between high blood sugar and heart disease than with cholesterol. There is plenty of evidence that the sugar industry has helped with the demonisation of fat and cholesterol to deflect from the dangers of excess sugar in the diet eg with the blackening of a guy called John Yudkin founding Professor of the Department of Nutrition at Queen Elizabeth College in London. His book Pure , White and Deadly was republished in 2012 .
Exactly but if you disagree with ‘the medical consensus’ you are a maverick - my professor told me to always follow the mavericks, they may not always be right but you learn a lot along the way.
I read Kendrick’s Cholesterol Myth but it wasn’t until I read Doctoring Data that I started to understand just how we have been manipulated purely because most of us failed to really understand how to ‘read’ a research study. It then wasn’t until I read The Clot Thickens that I vaguely started to understand exactly what happens to our blood vessels and how and why we get plaque, and it isn’t about cholesterol. I think he upset a lot of people in his sarcastic style of writing, but don’t believe he is wrong, shame he and others who speak their own truth get so vilified.
My understanding is no proven causal link between CAD and cholesterol - it’s a statistical link - and you know what they say about statistics.
It amuses me when people use the word ‘fact’ as an absolute truth. I spent a whole 4 hours in a training session once with some incredibly intelligent people debating the definition of the word ‘fact’ and our conclusion was:- a widely held belief or consensus of opinion within a defined geographical place and culture and within a precise historical time frame. Very different from the English Dictionary definition. I always bear that in mind when anyone says - ‘It’s a fact’.
Examples for our conclusions: - the world is flat; an atom is the smallest particle in the universe; BMI was designed as measure of obesity; Autism is caused by vaccinations; - etc, etc. In our time, place and culture we believe the world is spherical, BMI was invented in the 19C - we use an archaic system not developed by a doctor and certainly not taking into account that different people, races and sexes have different body types.
Things like CHADS, HASBLED and QRISK are quite clever algorithms which help medics assess risk through percentages - they are not absolutes and you only need to look at the French Paradox regarding MI and stroke regarding fats to start questioning.
I am very careful with how much cheese, cream and dairy I eat because I know that will make my lipid levels sore but as you quite rightly pointed out to me - you wouldn’t be able to convince the French to limit their cheese and wine intake!
It all depends what colour of lens you view the field through.
When you go into the clinic here someone comes from the meals service. There is a brochure and you choose your meals for the next few days or however long your stay will be if it's short. Lunch and dinner are 3 courses and there is always an option of cheese, yoghurt or pudding. You can order wine if your consultant says you can have it! I have never stayed in a public hospital but I expect it wouldn't be a lot different - maybe less choice. The nutritionists here reckon a diet without dairy is not a healthy diet. You get one little portion of butter with your breakfast - no nasty spreads.
My cholesterol has gone up quite a lot on the last recent test( my GP has not bothered with it for years and even my cardiologist never orders it - I'm beginning to suspect they are of Kendrick and de Lorgeril's ilk!) but it might be because my TSH has soared out of range. The GP said he was only bothered about the TSH and has given me a prescription for more blood tests before my next visit. I have started taking my Levothyrox at night to see if I get better absorption before I put it up a bit. I am wary about increasing it too much as my afib is not too bad at the moment and I don't want to rock the boat.I have not read Kendrick 's books but I read all the articles on his blog about his theory on the causes of heart disease and found them more convincing than the cholesterol hypothesis. I have read de Lorgeril's books . I have stopped getting books on Amazon uk because the postage is so high so I will see if Kendrick is available on Kindle. Sometimes you can get English books on Amazon france but they have strict anti discounting laws for books here so they always cost a lot -even the second hand ones.
I was quite shocked when I first read about the use of absolute and relative risk in reporting efficacy and side effects. As a result I was highly suspicious of the touted 95% effectiveness of the vaccines and ferretted around till I could find the absolute risk figures. Not nearly so enticing!
First, not all statins are the same. I take Simvastatine (only 10mg) which is fine with me but after the stroke they put me on Avastatine which played havoc with my digestion and general well being. So ask for a change if they cause problems for you.
Second, there is a huge debate about whether there are such things as good and bad cholesterol, or whether the damage to arteries is caused by inflammation that so called 'bad cholesterol' is trying to protect against by covering the inner wall of the artery.
But statistically those with lower levels of bad cholesterol do have fewer heart attacks and strokes, so it probably does make sense. Statins have relatively few negative health effects especially if monitored properly so I would take your doctor's advice, subject to him listening to any concerns about how they might make you feel. My low dose no longer impacts on my general health and yet my cholesterol levels have reduced significantly,
You may wish to read The Great Cholesterol Myth by Bowden and Sinatra (one is a cardiologist) and/or The Great Cholesterol Con by Dr Malcolm Kendrick ( a British GP). It’s your choice, whether to take statins or not. Also, being hypothyroid can cause cholesterol to be high: GPs don’t always seem to be aware of this.
Please look at this - the brilliant Dr Paul Mason and others tell the truth about Statins under the heading 'Low Carb Down Under''. This is a good introduction.
Once you know the truth, tell your GP!! My practice nurse rang me after a blood test and told me the risk of heart attack and stroke was proven to be halved by statins - absolute rubbish, but she was just parroting the received wisdom pushed by the Pharma industry in their gross manipulation and hiding of data.
healthunlocked.com/afassoci...
thanks for the link Mugsy, very informative.
Thank you.
they do test for tricyclerides in Uk ( well they do in wales) and I take a statin and haven’t had any ill effects . The bhf guidance is pretty clear on this so unless that is not based on good evidence then I certainly would seriously be considering following it .
I prefer statins to a stent or bypass, myself - but the evidence is that statins extend life only in people with pre-existing atherosclerosis so far as I recall.
The trouble is we might not know this until it's too late, as my sister-in-law discovered with her Christmas heart attack. She was given a stent and will be on cholesterol reducing drugs for life. I saw her yesterday and feel for her as she is clearly a lot more frightened about the future than she was.
If a doctor recommends statins then a serious conversation is called for, not flippancy.
Steve
I was struck by someone’s comment earlier that anti coagulats help reduce afib induced risk of stokes but not other strokes eg dislodged platelet formation. Any thoughts on this? Ps / I have no reason to doubt what they said was true but just interested
You could ask about the HDL and LDL separately to help you decide a way forward. I was put on statins after a routine Ct angiogram 12 years ago that showed some narrowing in the heart. I have had no side effects from Lipitor.
dont go on them
Hi, I've been told by GP that cholesterol should be under 4.5. Mine is 4.2 but they still want me to go on statins, they say under 4 would be best. I was advised by one GP a year ago that benecol is very effective in reducing cholesterol and I now take that every day and my cholesterol came down from 4.7 to 4.2. Perhaps give it a try its not unpleasant especially on cereal and I think harmless in other ways. Good luck
How long did it take for the Benecol to take effect?
take everyday and seemed to work after 1-2 mths
Thank you. I used to have the Aldi version a while ago but didn't have a before and after to refer to at that point.
Ducky, there's no hard and fast rule, or before and after, you can only try and see. It seemed to work for me but might not for everyone . As for aldi alternative, be clear its not a probiotic which is a different thing and for your gut not cholestorol. good luck
Aldi do a cholesterol reducing one and have done for a few years, as I used it about 3 or 4 years ago .......
I've bought it again today. Think its got 2% plant sterols as opposed to 3% in Benecol but half the price.
The before and after I referred to was cholesterol reading before I used the drink previously and cholesterol reading after I'd been using it for some time. At least thiz time, Ive got a before figure to use.😊
Not sure what is going on here.
I have had "high" Cholesterol since 2008 ( at least - thats the earliest results I can find. )
Serum Total cholesterol then was 6.3 ( normal range 2-5). also Non HDL was 4.3, when normal range (then ) was 1.0-3.0. Somewhere after 2015 this range was changed to be 1.0 to 4.0.
However I was NOT put on statins because my HDL (good) cholesterol was 1.33 , which gave a ratio serum total : HDL as 4.7, which WAS within normal range of 2.0 to 6.0, and as I remember THAT was the important stat.
My overall cholesterol went to 7.0 by 2013. as I had a period of lots of work stress/family bereavement/ low excercise/ poor diet . However the total ratio was 5.3 and STILL in RANGE. Doctor talked about possibility of statins but I said I will try to get it down by more excercise and better diet first, and 14 months later I was overall 5.4 and ratio total:HDL 4.1. So no statins.
Probably owing to the last 3 years covid, and me getting lazy I was in July 2022 7.1 in total cholesterol ( highest ever recorded) but total :HDL ratio 4.7 and in range.
However my (new to me) doctor suggested statins in a letter. I made a table of all previous results (from the NHS website) and had a phone call and asked why that was , as the ratio we previously discussed was in range?
I did not get a clear answer, except bit of waffle saying I was getting older, and it was better to have all in range.
Anyway I said I would sort myself out as I had done in 2013 , more excercise, smaller portions, more salads/veg /etc. and less fats, lose weight
No idea if that worked yet, ( I am currently 7 llbs lighter but still too heavy) but still not thinking of statins. I am not keen on taking them,
I am not medically trained , but I cannot see why the change in emphasis when the "normal ranges" are largely the same.
Note I am not saying statins are necessarily bad as I do not know but I need a really good reason to take them for the rest of my life.
Happy to be advised if my logic/ interpretation is wrong.
As usual there’s a lot of conflicting advice here. The simple advice is as someone has said is
1. Have a Coronary calcium scan.
2. CT angiogram.
Then you will have definitive information wether in your case your cholesterol level has done any damage.
The truth is we’re all different and someone else’s 5.7 might be as bad as another’s 7.3. Someone else has mentioned triglycerides and they also play a substantial role. On both sides of the no statin dietary debate ie while food plant based or keto or paleo they both agree that sugar is the inflammatory agent. Also HDL to LDL ratios are important.
In my personal case my doctor wasn’t worried about my total of 6.1 when I was 40 , I was slim and fit surfing and running. At 46 when diagnosed with AF a routine CT angiogram showed I had 50-70% moderate plaques in my LAD artery. Again relatively good diet albeit with too much sugar and saturated fats but still perfect bmi and very fit. My current lipids were 6.3 but I had high trigs this time good HDL and poor ldl.
I’ve been prescribed 80mg atorvastatin and I’ll be honest I have been down the rabbit hole. I’ve read and watched loads of information much of it conflicting. For me I’ve decided a huge dietary change and to take 40mg of atorvastatin. I need to stabilise the plaques and reduce inflammation. I’ve also got persistent AF. A statin does offer some blood thinning also. And I’m hoping I can achieve good results as my diet is extreme no sugar no saturated fats etc.
If you need a break down of the science then look at the NNT.com.
Basically statins are over prescribed they offer little to no benefit to people without coronary disease it’s not to say ignore your cholesterol it’s to say try diet and lifestyle first. But if you’ve got CAD or you’ve had a heart attack then statin do offer protection. But again they’re not miracle drugs even with statins if you ignore diet they’re again not extremely effective. Here’s the stats for people who HAVE got heart disease and take a statin. From the studies from the NNT. Worth remembering most studies are carried out by the companies selling statins.
Still I’m taking mine for now and i might even up the dose.
Also it’s interesting the difference on the AF forum and the BHF forum on the BHF people are far more pro statin.
Stats:
1 in 83 were helped (life saved)1 in 39 were helped (preventing non-fatal heart attack)1 in 125 were helped (preventing stroke)
I’m not a doctor or scientist.
I have always been confused when I hear the normal range of cholesterol in Europe. It is measured differently than here in the US. But I found an equivalency chart on the Mayo Clinic website. Agree with the others, going on a statin for high cholesterol is a different issue than afib.
I was told the same but opted instead to go onto plant sterols 2400mg per day ,2x1200mg, on my last bloodwork which could be 18 months ago approx ,my levels had come down . there is a big push at the minute in uk to get more statins out with a sudden increase in heart related problems. I think if we lowered inflammation we wouldnt need statins, only my opinion.
Bell50,
I'm in same situation with my Cardiologist wanting me on sustains so I fired him. Do NOT take statins unless you had a heart attack or other big heart issues. Please look for videos by DR Paul Massion ( youtube.com/watch?v=rdgS3Pu...
Also DR David Diamond from University of South Florida, and a host of others who have researched statins and cholesterol and concluded statins only help 1 or 2% of people and have a host of side affects. LDL is good cholesterol, you can't live without it. Best indicators of heart issues is the ratio between HDL and triglycerides, a ratio of 2.5 to 1 is good.
Great book is "The Great Cholesterol Myth"...get it.
Very best to ya....
I would assume in the UK it's the same as in the US: you can decline an Rx med if you choose to do so.
I am within the first 90 days of my initial Afib diagnosis/treatment, and am already on a statin. That said, I just had big physical and my dr. is going to determine if the statin is even necessary. I will do bloodwork to confirm before going farther,
I was put on Simvastatin 20mg at the onset of my Afib, along with my Flecainide. A Catheterization was performed in 2013. I was told then, that my arteries were totally clear. My Cardiologist was worried, because of an " artifact" that showed up on an earlier Nuclear Stress Test. Upon a second NST in 2017 it was decided that the artifact was an abberation and did not show up on the second test. I have been taking Simvastatin all this time however. The Doctor said it was a preventive. My GP did reduce the dose to 10mg in 2014, she said my cholesterol levels were within acceptable range, and in her opinion the dosage made no sense. Interesting you all mention numbers. I have never seen any numbers, only told acceptable or not acceptable. My last two bloodworks here in Germany ( every three years only ) I was told my Cholesterol level was good, as well as the bad Cholesterol level. Nothing has ever been mentioned about stopping Statins. I actually hate the stuff, gives me an acid stomach every time.
Like you, my cholesterol level was 5.7 and I was put on statins. My cardiologist who is also a personal friend advised that I would be better protected from having a stroke, so I have been on it for the past 2 years since I was diagnosed with AF.
I’m also on Sotalol 80mg twice a day and on Warfarin as well. Lucky for me there has been no nasty side effects from them. Take care, cheers
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27, pac’s,pvc’s,svt,and now AFib. 
