I know there's massive hype out there about the vagus nerve and the treatment of any number of ills through vagus stimulation and care. Nevertheless........Was wondering if anyone's had any success with one of those wearable devices for VNS and if, at this very early stage of AFib - diagnosed as Paroxysmal but running on Persistent this past month, it would be worth a shot?
I've read a couple of scientific papers online, but not sure who funded the research. There's more research on VNS for chronic fatigue and IBS, so could be useful for my husband in any case.
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I don’t know about the massive hype as I’ve never seen anything about electrical VNS for AF apart from one trial which was interesting but very complicated and indicated that it could be possible to induce as well as prevent AF episode and that once AF started it was unlikely to be able to terminate an episode.
There are some interesting videos on YouTube about vagal stimulation of the ear so maybe try manual stimulation first? There are plenty of self help methods of increasing HRV and vagal tone, mostly breath control which I found very helpful.
If your husband’s AF is becoming progressive then it is unlikely to be solely vagal stimulated, I would imagine. Vagal AF has particular characteristics so it’s useful to understand the differences but this phrase in the study struck me
The antiarrhythmic effects of low-level cervical VNS have been attributed to its antiadrenergic effects….. which seems counterintuitive if the AF is vagal AF?
You may find this article helpful about the differences between adrenergic and vagal AF.
I will be interested to see if anyone replies to you with a positive on this subject - I know it has been discussed before but never yet seen a post with a positive outcome for their AF.
Thank you Dreamer, really helpful to understand those differences, even if I don't yet know my own story fully! I guess by picking up the shared knowledge on this brilliant forum we can gradually figure the best questions to ask the medics and cardiologist (if I ever get to see one).
Meanwhile I'm going to try some of the vagal tuning exercises. I've been recording HR Afib data daily so will let you know how it goes.
I have no knowledge of these devices but I do know that my Bowen practitioner has done vagus nerve calming work on me which did help terminate a swarm of ectopics.
Bob, your Bowen practitioner sounds amazing. I've got some acupuncture booked for next week (first ever session) but after a quick search can see Bowen is rather more relaxing looking, less invasive than acupuncture! Can you recommend a site where I can find out more?
Oh I'm jealous. YOu are so lucky to have a good Bowen therapist. I Had one years ago who was also a teacher of Bowen and worked miracles on my spinal pain. Sadly he moved abroad and the only two within reach are poorly trained. One even made me worse. A good therapist must have an excellent background knowledge of the body and should tell you at teh start that, if there's no improvement after 3 treatments, they won't continue. We have one here who will carry on taking your money even though it's not helping. Bowen is a wonderful treatment for all sorts of problems. Mine was also learning to treat animals with such good results that my vet started sending people to him.
My specialist told me that genuinely vagal causes of AF were tiny in proportion to other causes and that if the vagus nerve itself were irritated, say by a large hiatus hernia, then the symptoms would be obvious and different, with a lot of bradycardia.
There is, though, a kind of AF that is thought to be "vagal" in a different sense, a term used to oppose the more common type of AF, which is "adrenergic". This is to explain those with AF that seems to be triggered when the adrenergic (i.e. sympathetic) autonomic nervous system is quieter and the vagal (i.e. parasympathetic) system is dominant. This will be during sleep, or when the body is resting or quietly digesting food, for example. This doesn't mean that a "fault" with the vagus is itself the cause, I gather, just that the vagal system is more dominant.
Whether its possible to actually "stimulate" the parasympathetic system, I'm not sure since it is a central part of the body's systems, but I suppose that anything that induces calm and rest might "quieten" the adrenergic system and allow the vagal system to dominate.
Great analysis & explanation Steve. I have worked on the Vagus Nerve/associated systems being unbalanced. I have sort over several years to rebalance by evening out & reducing day/evening stress/activities. I think it might have worked 🤔.
Thank you for that kind comment. Learning how to “rebalance” the mind in our overly-stressed times is a skill indeed. I find it the hardest of things to do. I sometimes wonder whether some aren’t hard wired to be worriers while others are lucky enough to be more relaxed in their nature.
I' m sure that is true. I am a pessimist and a worrywart by nature. My mother was even worse -I suspect she was not happy unless she had something to worry about! But I find I am able to control it more as I get older and say to myself -no point worrying about that can't do anything about it. Now I find my main solace is in my garden - having a robin come close to me when I am working , seeing geese flocks migrating overhead or just listening to bird song or insects humming these things give enormous pleasure and a feeling of relaxation. Now I can enjoy the perfume of our winter honeysuckles and today even saw a couple of honeybees on them. The work in the garden gives me a sense of achievement unlike housework which I am not keen on. Today was a lovely sunny day and I was able to work in a t shirt for a bit. In Jan that's a bonus and is a silver lining in the worry of climate change!
I can relate well to all you've just explained but I don't get to feel the relaxation so easily. I imagine it's a kind of distraction that is at play. Nature, most certainly, is important, though.
Here are some lines from one of my favourite poems about nature. I'm lucky that poetry can bring an inner calm (I've had to insert it as an image as the formatting goes haywire on this forum otherwise):
That's really helpful Ppipman and in line with the links and info CDreamer has provided above. I have noticed I get the loudest clunks, twangs and odd (ectopic?) heartbeats at night. They wake me up. And if I sit and do nothing or spend too long on the Internet without getting up and exercising, then my heart is inclined to grumble for no apparent reason. All a bit of a mystery!
Mine is a real mystery, too, coming and going for no reason I can determine. I never get woken by it thank goodness but getting into bed always starts up lots of ectopic beats.
Ditto for the mystery. I had my first afib attack of this year starting at around 1-15am Monday morning. My husband had just come up from watching MOTD downstairs (it's an hour later here) and I was watching a recorded program on the TV in the bedroom. Boom off it went and no reason I could see except I was a bit hungry. I had been doing really well - nearly 13 weeks since the last attack. I hadn't even indulged much over the holiday period! I later decided it might be due to all the leaf sweeping I had done over the weekend . Upper body work has brought it on before and I had an aching muscle in my right shoulder.
Ah Auriculaire, the impact of upper body work - I can identify with that! After returning from a family reunion before Christmas I was beset with the fiercest pain I have ever felt in shoulder, back and chest. The GP (over phone) made me get an ambulance! A bit scary but turned out to be rhomboid strain from too much qigong exercise! But I'm wondering now if all that lifting of arms skyward might not aggravate my Afib too? The ambulance medic was an ex physio and delighted in pointing out my chronic bad posture which doesn't help either.Love your description of the peaceful garden and the birds!
I have an elderly friend who has permanent AF and his GP told him to take care even lifting his arms high. Oddly, if I do any DIY that requires working above my head, that makes me feel odd, even though I haven't noticed it starting AF. There is something about lifting the arms high - but then, crouching down can affect me too.
Last year I had an attack after setting concrete edging stones. They were 50 cm long and quite heavy for me and I couldn't get them quite right so had to dig them up and try again several times before I was satisfied. The annual wisteria prune is coming up soon - lots of stretching perched on a ladder. But it is beautiful in flower.
Hunger can bring mine on. It's quite weird. Another thing I've noticed over the three years or so that I've had this is that even a personal confrontation can do it. I don't mean by that anything serious - just, I don't know, becoming frustrated or angry with a person or whatever, maybe in a shop or whatever. It's all so strange.
I found this on VN the other day, interesting for sure, after the opening comments there is a ‘read more’ link to open the whole article, I note the writer is not medically trained though she quotes several studies
Thanks James. There's obviously a lot more research required in the area of vagus nerve. Meanwhile I found this analysis which I think is quite balanced. Although generally sceptical of unresearched claims, the author interestingly points to a doctor treating Afib with a vagus nerve massage! I'm keeping an open mind.
Thank you! Finding this post was great. I've been dealing with Afib & heart arrythmia issues for the last 2+ years. My heart muscle has been diagnosed as healthy. Had an ablation last summer b/c Afib (1 hr) episodes were increasing and I was panicking. So far (9mos) I have no recurring afib - but the pvc arrythmia continued - constantly, sometimes 20 a minute. Daily, frustrating, depressing, traumatizing. Official diagnosis at this point is *Benign Arrythmia*. Cardiologist had no answers, suggestions - apart from "relax", or we can experiment with big pharma or more ablation (targeting pvcs). I developed Tinnitus in my right ear 20 years ago. I have raging buzzing 24/7. Saw ENT back then and bottom-line was ear damage, no cure, and then accepting that I would never hear silence again - unless a miracle cure was found/revealed. After 20 years I don't focus on it often - but does make me weary at times b/c it's always there.
I have not trusted doctors for many years for many reasons. I can be ocd about digging for research and info & tend to be prepared with questions that are usually ignored or brushed off during my office visits. I read about the VN and how it's connected to body functions, including heart rate. Also learning SOUND/NOISE and sound therapy can affect the VN - which can affect heart rate. Fascinating, Caused me to wonder IF there was a possible connection to my brain hearing a buzzing sound for 20 years could affect my vagal nerve function - causing my electrical heart issues... I dug for articles to find anything on a possible connection. I found maybe 2 vague comments in articles at the time. I mentioned this to 2 of my cardiologist & my GP - who (i'm sure all thought I was crazy, as usual) - response was basically - "haven't seen any research on that" and/or "maybe see a neurologist?"...
Just makes logical sense to me there is a connection.
I haven't read the articles posted in the thread but will do asap! Thanks for asking the question and comments and I will be following closely.
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