TLDR: Man aged 65 with unremarkable medical history and no prior history of cardiovascular risk factors waited one year to get his first Covid vaccination because he was "very hesitant". He experienced dizziness and fainted in the waiting room of the vaccination center. (The article is not clear on whether this is before or after receiving a dose of vaccine). It was found he was in atrial fibrillation and he also experienced multiple acute infarctions. It's worth noting that cardiovascular disease was found on echocardiogram after these symptoms were experienced, which indicated that he may have had AF for some time without diagnosis. There was no previous history of AF nor reported symptoms of AF. The short article briefly discusses the brain-heart connection, and the connection of stress and anxiety to arrhythmias, with various references.
My take:
This is obviously a singular person case report, however, considering what we already know well about how stress, fear, and anxiety can effect our hearts, we can be certain this is not the only instance of this, or something similar, occurring.
It is worth taking into account the effect of all of the fear surrounding Covid vaccination, when it is reported that it has caused an episode of arrhythmia. Some percentage of these is certainly caused by stress and anxiety surrounding the innoculation. For example, there likely is some people who, having received the vaccine and having had normal reactions such as we do to any vaccine (i.e. nausea or a fever, and their surrounding effects) - that this in turn may see their pre-primed anxiety triggered because of thinking that something terrible was about to happen due to the vaccine, and they then experienced an arrhythmia episode. It is also plausible that having an extended atrial fibrillation episode at some point soon after the vaccine is administered, could be facilitated by this anxiety. In example, someone experiences palpitations, or an atrial fibrillation episode beginning, and it triggers their pre-primed anxiety about the fact that a few weeks ago they had gotten a dose of the vaccine. This anxiety/fear reaction could potentially cause an episode to be more intense and/or last longer, or precipitate a more serious event from something as innocuous as palpitations.
I posit that the effects that vaccines in general have on our bodies (i.e. inflammation) can prime us for arrhythmia episodes, and in addition, considering the widespread fear surrounding the Covid vaccinations, which is unlike anything we have ever seen considering the mass spread of this information on the internet - it is likely that a significant number of these events would be caused by that fear. Furthermore, it would create a self-perpetuating "vicious" cycle, with more and more accounts shared and causing more fear, and causing more and more episodes due to that fear.
Thank you for your time, I look forward to your thoughts.
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ChasMartin
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I personally believe stress is my trigger for Afib - I can’t determine any other triggers for myself. As you say, the whole Covid vaccine situation is full of concerns, doubts, ambiguous information etc, so it is the perfect breeding ground for anxiety and consequently, for many people - Afib. It is a Vicious Circle. Afib begets Afib, so someone who might be a little nervous whilst waiting for anything medical will have their Afib already primed; then, as you say, vaccinations often leave the patient anywhere between slightly under the weather to completely wiped out for a couple of days. There is no wonder it can be a trigger for Afib. Also, add to the equation the fact that so many people are just very nervous about any needles approaching their body ! I could never understand this as most injections are about the most painless thing that can happen to a body. But it is a real fear for many people and yet another possible trigger for Afib.
I can relate to stress being a trigger, ended up having cardioversion(as many of you may remember) 4 days after moving out of my property! Thank fully moving to my new home 3 weeks ago, hasn’t caused any stress!
Many including myself have an adverse on to vaccines period. This one is over the top weird. In my research I have learned that this technology isn’t new, it has been worked on for awhile but they could never figure out how to inject it without causing inflammation. I find that interesting. Yet FEAR drove it to be fact tracked without long term trials. This newest booster they speak of hasn’t been tested on any humans.
In the past I had vasovagal responses while getting my blood taken. At one point a nurse had to wave a book in my face as I was about to faint, and then she started showing me cat pictures on her computer to snap me out of it. It worked well actually! I haven't had that problem for at least 8 years now though, wonder what changed.
Cat pictures eh ? That might make some people worse ! 😂 I was told that tall men are more likely to faint than shorter ones because the blood has further to circulate. Glad that the nurse was able to help you all those years ago !
Totally agree re anxiety and am extrapolating your comment to dentistry. I ask for non adrenaline containing local, but if you are concerned that the anaesthesia may be less effective (though I've always had top ups, no problem) or there might be more bleeding, then your body will supply additional adrenaline with ease!!!
Absolutely agree. Fear I have always maintained is the AF’er’s biggest antagonist. Who has not read a post from a newly diagnosed poster who is terrified of what that diagnosis means. That is why so many turn to forums like this as we feel that only ‘talking’ to others who have similar experiences will understand, so we listen to those who have trod the path before us.
There are several types of fear - acute - which is a response to a danger in the moment, appropriate, life saving and passes and chronic - which is often born of worry and doesn’t pass. Too many people live in chronic fear which bathes the body in a toxic chemical mix which causes inflammation, leading to disease.
The affect of fear also prohibits clear cognitive abilities meaning often we react emotionally rather than respond cognitively which is why the old adage - count to ten - before responding in anger or hurt can be a useful reminder to allow the emotion to pass, before responding. Easy to say but much harder to employ in this time of global uncertainty and in many arenas - geographical, financial, political and health field.
We all fear something but if you have AF you do seem to be predisposed to experience fears/anxiety/stress and finding a way to manage and alleviate is always top of my suggested to do list of Lifestyle Changes to help manage AF.
William Bloom wrote a book called The Endorphin Effect and what triggers the release of Endorphins which counter the toxic stress hormones which cause inappropriate inflammatory response which leads to many chronic conditions.
Unfortunately many people resist seeking medical consults because of fear of what they may hear. We were born with imagination and unfortunately, untamed, that can work against us. Knowledge and seeking support and talking about these common factors really does help. Sad that our health systems are unable or unwilling to provide that essential support.
Anything that promotes uncertainty produces feelings of insecurity. When we feel insecure we become anxious. The unpredictability of Paroxysmal AF leaves us uncertain of what we can or cannot do and feelings of insecurity stop us from continuing with day to day activities which make us feel good and promote the release of Endorphins which counter the stress hormones - hence the repeated phrase - do not allow AF to rule your life.
Some years ago I wrote a blog here about anxiety and AF and members here helped me to produce a list of what they found helps to ease anxiety. If I have time in the next day or so (got a lot on today) I’ll dig it out and repost.
If you do nothing else today - do something that pleases you and think of at least one thing you are grateful for.
You have learned to switch off I expect. But going on and on he may get a heart condition. Was he always like that!
My daughter married a very sarcastic man. I had to sit through what was my daughter giving the 3rd degree about it and him saying "yu knew that when you married me".
Oh dear. I wasn't going to get in the middle.
Seven years later she left.
Honestly what annoyed me was 'people can change. Change is they want to'. He obviously didn;t want to.
He will need lots and lots and lots of prayers.
cheri. JOY. (NZ). 73
You will need to be strong or turn the remark around which needs some sill and energy.
Thank you for this response, it is a pleasure to read. I'd love to read this blog you talk of! I have atrial fibrillation that is not seemingly caused by stress or exercise, but is vagal. After I got a watch with ECG on it (apple), and it came up with atrial fibrillation it would show in a jarring bright yellow highlighted color on the watch screen with a black background, I would feel my adrenaline rush (and likely my heart rate go up) the moment it displayed that message on the screen. I use it much less these days for that reason. Someone needs to tell them they probably shouldn't make the display so stressful.
Well said indeed. The fear we felt of catching covid itself, initially, and our relief at being given the first vaccine was enormous. Remembering back to the spring and summer of 2020 is a very unpleasant experience. We were petrified of this disease striking us and ending up in an ICU being intubated and ventilated. Those early lockdowns were terrible, too, missing our young grandchild so dearly.
Since then, so much information and even more misinformation, some utterly improper and unacceptable, has come everyone's way, and, to add to that, the vaccine is none too good at preventing transmission and stopping breakthrough infections.
The result of this is, as you rightly point out, has been greatly increased anxiety levels, unhealthily so in some, I imagine. That this affects the heart is natural, and if they trigger AF and other arrhythmias in a few, it doesn't surprise me.
Not everyone was terrified of catching covid even at the beginning despite what I consider to be the considerable efforts of governments and above all media to instill that terror. Since then psychologists who were part of a SAGE subcommitee have come out and said that what was done was unethical- there was even an article in the Guardian about this which surprised me a lot given that they were always giving voice to fear stirrers and lockdown enthusiasts even to the end of 2021. There seemed to be a determination on the part of the BBC to seek out younger age bracket people who were very ill or who had died with covid without any attempt to put into context how rare this actually was . Since then the ONS own statistics show that covid is mainly dangerous for old people ,and indeed for children is less dangerous than flu. Despite fairly early reports that surface contamination was hardly responsible for transmission there are still some poor souls who are wiping down their shopping . A report has come out recently about the terrible harm lockdowns have done particularly to the psychological health of children and young people , their education and social development . In particular instilling the notion in them that they were a danger to their grandparents and might even cause their deaths. What is ironic is that there is now evidence that the virus was in circulation in Europe before the Chinese inundated the world with their street theatre. Antibodies to the virus have been found in blood samples that were taken in early winter 2019. There is anecdotal evidence of lots of people in different countries suffering from a very severe "bug" from autumn onwards. People who reported being ill for weeks and taking a long time to recover. No doubt some unfortunates died from it This was likely covid but without that dread name life went on as normal without the panic.
I feel that there's some exaggeration and misunderstanding in your post, myself. The evidence that lockdowns caused "terrible harm" is lacking and likely a media myth, or one propagated by conspiracy believers. That isn't to say lockdowns were by any means all good or even necessary, but they were a reasoned and reasonable response to the horrific events of the time. My wife and I met a senior SAGE adviser by chance in, of all places, a bird hide one day and I was given a very different account indeed from the one you give. He, had, himself, just got over a bad dose of covid and he was neither old nor overweight.
Although the majority, it certainly was not only the elderly who filled the beds at our local hospital's ICU and the temporary overspill covid unit at a second hospital. Obesity, diabetes, hypertension and an allergic profile (eczema, asthma, auto-immunity) were all predisposing factors to severe covid. We felt fearful from being unsure whether we had one or more of those. The nurses and doctors on the covid wards lived in fear of the illness themselves and struggled as they never have before. Very many NHS staff went down with the disease and were very unwell. The whole unit at one Welsh major centre went down with it. Several nurses and doctors died.
To belittle and mock what the medical and scientific experts did during that time is to lean over to conspiracy thinking in my view.
Good reply Steve. Time has a way of erasing/modifying bad memories. I am amazed at the number of folks today say the springtime, 2020 was "no big deal", the whole thing was "hyped" by the media, lockdowns not needed, masking silly, etc., etc.
My God, we were dealing with a heretofore unknown virus, nothing known about it's transmissibility, virulence, or anything else except that thousands of people were dying every day-and nobody really knew what to do. A car ride through Manhattan was like a vision from an apocalyptic movie!
How quickly we forget, and fortunately, how far we've come!
I was fortunate in knowing several medics involved and in meeting that SAGE guy. It opened my eyes. Of course, the death rate was tiny as a percentage of cases, but dying was the least of the problems in a way - it was the average 30-day hospital stay (over double the length of stay for, say, serious influenza) that threw ICUs into utter disarray, along with the need for medical staff who caught it to stay home isolating for a fortnight, reducing staff levels everywhere.
The New York experience really was an especially bad one from what I have read and been told as so many people were dying of cardiac arrests at home, from covid. The accounts from some of the ambulance drivers and paramedics made tragic reading.
The vaccine, in preventing serious covid has been a saviour.
Indeed. Many, many people needed hospital care in ICU wards and many lives were saved. There was an imperative to prevent more people becoming infected. As I have stated before, my neighbour died in the first wave and had been admitted to ICU on the first day he felt unwell. He wasn’t old. He was a married father of four who probably contacted the virus in the course of his work. I am quite determined that his life was not in vain, and know exactly what he’d say in response to the nonsense the Covid minimisers and conspiracy theorists would say.
A much criticised paper authored by someone who is part of a libertarian think tank and exists purely for their own political agenda isn’t “science” and it certainly won’t influence my way of thinking. The world has moved on now, thanks to those who did the work of developing vaccines and treatments. We either accept these or we don’t. And that’s the end of it. It’s about time people got over themselves and get a life. Go to the library and take out a novel, or learn to play the piano, or take up macrame.
Oh so many of my own thoughts there. Social media has displaced the time once spent on more educational and entertaining hobbies and pastimes - even in preparing food from raw and unprocessed ingredients. It has become a seat of misinformation, too, of so many kinds as well as a kind of immodest ego-preening tool that not so long ago would have been unthinkable.
Definitely. You know, there are some people who don’t seem to realise that the pandemic phase has passed and they’ll go on and on and on and on about this conspiracy, that conspiracy, “the lies they told us!, “lockdowns are blah blah blah” and then there’s the frankenvirus conspiracies which is just about due for another trip round the conspiracy circuit. And I have to ask myself, why don’t they move on like the rest of the world? Why do they NEED this stuff? Why are they stuck in this endless loop of recycling the same old tropes? Would they actually have a life if they just got themselves off the internet and took up watercolour painting or learned a language? Is the thought of a life without all this conspiracy clutter some kind of existential threat? Bizarre.
For two I know - although they wouldn’t know it - it’s a form of empowerment providing them with a sense of having “knowledge” that we sheeple don’t have - a means of mocking traditional learning such as a university degree. I suspect they have carried chips on their shoulders for much of their lives and the load has finally been lightened by their allegiance to David Icke and his weird ideas.
My brother was one for conspiracy theories when he was younger. He was too lazy to study. He gained a lot of social status through his looks and his height and had this pied piper quality about him. People wanted to be around him, although I couldn’t work out why. I dare say he believes in a few Covid conspiracies himself especially all this social control nonsense, but being the person he is, he knew people who lived on some paradise island somewhere quite far off the coast of Australia and flew out there at the beginning of the pandemic to escape from it. So, as ever, always someone he can take advantage of, always getting what he wants. He might think nobody “tells him what to do” but he has no morals about using people to get what he wants. Most conspiracy theorists don’t have his “charm” but I recognise the underachieving underdog mindset because he has that too. He’s the “charismatic rebel” but it’s an easy disguise for what he lacks. It’s frightening how many people fall for these characters of little substance and no moral backbone. They can cause a lot of damage to people too.
The psychology of it fascinates me a great deal. I’d like to find a book about it as it’s changed my brother completely. He had the option of a grammar school education at 11+ as did but, unlike me, he turned it down and was forever lazy in his studies. The last time he opened a book was when a teacher forced him to, I expect.
Until FB brought him a few like minded conspiracy friends, he did rather revere others, even me, for their learning, but no longer - quite the reverse. Now he thinks he’s a fount of true knowledge and the rest of us are deluded fools in thrall to the “MSM”. It has had a truly powerful grip on his mind - cult like. He pointed at two planes high in the sky once, one emitting a vapour trail, one not. “Look, there’s your proof”, he said. “The one that has the trail is spraying poison that causes autism into the atmosphere. Why do you think there’s so much more autism about these days?” I pointed out that that was the higher plane where the atmosphere was cold enough to form the trail - but that was water off a duck’s back.
There's a book I read, it is quite focused on the US but it was really good for exploring this sort of thing. Called "The United States of Paranoia: A Conspiracy Theory".
Thanks for the recommendation, Chas. I think it is big in the US. In the UK, I recall a book called “Was God an Astronaut” by a guy called Erik von Daniken which seemed to set the whole shooting match off. Much of it was exposed as fraudulent but then an ex footballer called David Icke took up the cause and found a large following.
There’s a deep-seated need in some, I’ve come to see, to find ways to dispel the belittlement that not doing very well at school brings with it. In conspiracy beliefs , it seems fine at least of those people have found a way to remove the chip from their shoulder. I wouldn’t mind but the idea that those who don’t believe in such nonsense are seen as naive fools - and that does irk when it’s your brother lording it. 😳
Yes, I recognise similar traits in my brother. He didn’t take advantage of the opportunities that were handed to him on a plate when he was younger so has played the rebel outsider to make up for it. There’s a lot to in the saying that “in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king”.
I’ve often thought that, too. As a teacher I’ve always been acutely aware of the difficulties for students who aren’t so able (or who are lazy in their work or come from homes where learning isn’t prioritised). It’s so difficult to find ways to stop them from feeling belittled and I suspect that can become a lifelong cross to bear. The conspiracy movement and Facebook have provided a strange way out.
My brother blames his working class council estate upbringing for the reason he’s not an architect or whatever, but in reality he had that opportunity. Two of his sisters who had the same parents, grew up in the same home, went to the same school and even had a few of the same teachers could get themselves into university, and this was in the days when student grants, so I don’t think opportunities were denied to him. He was smart enough to avoid getting into gangs that broke into shops and graffitied on the walls and all of that stuff, because it did go on where we lived. He fell into all those counter culture ideas of the 70s and developed the aura of the fake intellectual drop out. Lots of political conspiracies and beliefs in astral projection and the like. It’s surprising how many people could fall for his phoney charm.
I feel that a key aspect in the growth of this irrationality has been social media, which gives a voice to the oddest of views and the semblance of a worthwhile audience for them.
The tragedy of mis/disinformation is that there have been casualties. Last week I stumbled upon a programme where a man had been admitted to ICU with Covid and later died. He hadn’t taken the vaccine and instead had been self medicating with ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine which he’d bought on the internet, and which we know neither prevents nor treats Covid. In fact hydroxychloroquine actually results in worse outcomes. The man was previously fit and healthy, no known underlying conditions so the cause of death was investigated. Who knows whether the man was a fan of the esteemed Nurse Campbell but as Campbell himself says on his videos when showing his packets of the aforementioned unproven medication whilst telling people it’s available to purchase online from a country overseas ….. not that he’s “recommending” it, he emphasises…. it’s just for “educational purposes”….etc etc. In other words, he’s saying proceed at your own risk, he’s effectively saying “nothing to do with me”. A dangerous man, caring nothing for the collateral damage that he is at least in part responsible for. But on the other hand, nobody forced that unfortunate man to make those choices and I dare say that anyone questioning his decision to refuse vaccination or take those tablets as some kind of self administered prophylactic and/or treatment would probably have been told where to go, or provided with a load of links to YouTube videos that advocated his choices. It’s a very sad outcome and perhaps a life needlessly lost.
Misinformation does have an influence, and social media is mostly how people are exposed to it. You don’t need to look very far to find people who have effectively been influenced to make decisions that are going to make them vulnerable, and like that man in the programme, they could pay the ultimate price. And where will Nurse Campbell be? Droning into his webcam or basking in his 15 seconds of fame on the antivax talk circuit. The likes of Campbell, Dr Malpractice and the mad Bird woman would disappear into obscurity if they couldn’t keep milking the pandemic to fuel their public profile which they have monetised quite effectively.
Just because someone is a member of a libertarian think tank does not make what they research in their capacity as an applied economist null and void. The other authors of the paper were also economists. I am aware that the paper has been criticised by people in the fields of public health and epidemiology. For various reasons . I cited it in response to Steve' s assertion that the notion that lockdowns caused terrible harm was a media myth or a conspiracy theory. There is a great deal of dispute as to the benefit/ harms of lockdowns and economists will probably take a different view than public health experts. But we live in a complex society and not one where health security is the be all and end all. Your phrase " and exists for their own political agenda " does not make sense. Are you suggesting a person exists for their own political agenda?
As I said, some people might be better off getting off their laptops and doom-scrolling conspiracy theories and find something better to do. It’s not good for their mental health, nor their physical health with all that sitting. It’s as if some people have locked down their brains.
Lockdowns for some people was not too bad but I can imagine that if you were in a crowded high rise with lots of children lockdowns could have been a nightmare and have had a dreadful effect on the children. It must have had completely different outcomes for children on their education depending on how able their parents were to home educate them and on the childrens’ development of social interactions and empathy. It had a disaster out effect on business - but It certainly contained the spread of infection. We personally know friends who died of it and long covid is horrible.
That is true. Personally I felt I did not suffer from lockdowns even though during the first one here I did not leave home for 9 weeks. I don't go out much anyway and could find refuge in my garden. But for those you describe it must have been a nightmare. Not only that many rules were counterproductive. Staying inside and not being exposed to sunlight and fresh air is bad for the immune system. My last remaining aunt died of covid . She was 87 and suffering from advanced Alzheimer's so she might well have died of pneumonia following flu if covid had not been around. The more sensible measures to slow transmission like stopping all flights from China or other badly affected countries were ignored early on . Also stopping mass events like Cheltenhan or international football matches. It is obviously not easy to decide measures when in the thick of it but one hopes that lessons have been learned for future pandemics which we are assured are going to arrive.
I am not in any way mocking what the doctors and nurses did . I am pointing out that psycholgists from SAGE admitted that fear was deliberately stoked and that on hindsight they recognise that it was unethical. The Swedes did not lock down . They did not consider lockdown a " reasoned and reasonable response" to the events . At the time they were much criticised but actually they have not fared any worse than several European counties that did lockdown and better than some others like here that had very strict lockdowns. There were some American states that did not lock down . I would argue that lockdowns were actually a panic response and one influenced by the Chinese assertion that theirs had worked . Before the pandemic the WHO organisation pandemic guidelines said that lockdowns should not be used and that only sick people should be isolated. This decision was presumably made on evidence they had from epidemics in the past. I think the damage done to children and young people has been underestimated. Children lost months of schooling that they will never get back. Poorer children in particular suffered who could not access on line lessons because they did not have access to the technology. Their educational chances have probably been permanently blighted. The government promise to supply tablets or laptops was not fulfilled. Students were shut up for weeks in halls of residence sometimes with little access to proper food and no proper teaching when they would have been better off at home with their families. The damage to the economy has been colossal and will have to be paid for for years to come. A lot of the money spent wasted -track and trace that hardly worked because those in public health who knew how to do this properly were bypassed in favour of call centre like outfits staffed by people who had no idea. PPE that was unfit for purpose. As for "conspiracy theories" a study titled "A Literature Review and Meta Analysis of the effect of Lockdown on Covid 19 Mortality" by researchers at Johns Hopkins University found that in Europe and North America lockdowns were ineffective. They concluded that lockdowns are "ill founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument" because " They have contributed to reducing economic activity ,raising unemployment,reducing schooling, causing political unrest, contributing to domestic violence and undermining liberal democracy" All this for a reduction in mortality of 0.2%. Now I recognise that some people will say that all this is worth it if it reduces mortality by even such a small amount. Analysing competing harms and benefits of any measure is difficult. It often comes down not to scientific judgement but to value judgements such as how to weigh costs that fall on some sections of society more than others. I do not think that such a small reduction in mortality is worth all these other harms if most of the lives "saved" ( really deaths postponed as we all die in the end) are those of people who might well have died anyway a few months later. And I say this as one of those old people who are vulnerable.
A lot of what you say I would agree with, but hindsight is not what those making the decisions had. I think we also had a truly awful government led by fools. Today I read that the appalling Matt Hancock – God help us - is now to star on "I'm a Celebrity - Get Me Out of Here".
And we also put our eggs into a particular basket in the form of Ferguson and Imperial College. It is surely so that psychology is an imprecise discipline so those from SAGE who made that claim are voicing a view rather than stating anything usefully scientific - perhaps as evidenced by one SAGE sub-committee professor, Robert West, who was deeply critical of the way Johnson lifted the various forms of “lockdown”.
The Swedes did not lock down but, in many ways, they effectively did as most Swedes were careful to use masks and to socially distance. The loss of so many elderly Swedes to severe covid is surely also a terrible stain on that country. I think lockdowns were a panic response, yes, but also a response to the awful scenes from northern Italy and Spain – what a nightmare in those overwhelmed hospitals with temporary mortuaries here there and everywhere. We thought we would need intubation and extra hospitals, but we didn’t. Only hindsight showed us that. And in the UK, clearing elderly people with covid out of NHS hospitals and back to understaffed care homes… Goodness me. They would have died soon enough anyway was an unspoken – but sometimes voiced – response from some. Shocking inhumanity.
It's true that children missed out badly although the long term consequences will likely never be known or quantifiable. But had schools not closed, what would the teachers have done? Many suffered with severe covid and more than a few died. Many taught in fear. Some doctors and nurses even put themselves up in hotels for weeks on end keeping away from their families in fear of infecting them. Isn’t the reduction in morbidity surely more important than the 0.2% figure you quote for mortality? But again – that’s not a useful figure as it is such a difficult thing to quantify meaningfully.
We could have done so many thing so much better but the evidence is accruing that we were led by an appallingly incompetent and spendthrift government in the U.K.
The Swedes did keep their schools open apart for the oldest pupils. It is true that they are more inclined to follow their government's advice but people in the uk were also starting to mask and social distance of their own accord and continued to do so when restrictions relaxed. Here people were even quicker to adopt masks. But the closing of small shops and taping off of areas in supermarkets considered to be " unessential "purchases as happened here was ridiculous. Many of these actions simply caused small businesses to go out of business and online outfits like Amazon to get richer. The lockdowns here were even more draconian than in the uk but in the end our deaths per million of population far exceed those of Sweden and our cases per million are twice theirs. Indeed we have one of the highest rates of cases in the entire world despite months long lockdowns and stupid regulations like outdoor masking . They even had a requirement in Paris for a while for motor cyclists to wear masks but not joggers!
I believe that covid affects different racial groups differently and is more worse at different times of year. various stats might therefore be dependent on the racial mix of that society and whether it is winter or summer there
I need at least 3 lockdowns a year to get all the things done in the house that need doing The worst part of lockdown - we were both shielding, was actually managing to get supermarket deliveries and then remembering to tick the no replacements box so we didn't end up with something in our order we hadn't ordered. We ordered dates and got a mango once Hated the garden centres being closed as I had lots of seeds and no compost - our earth here is not very good so wouldn't have tried growing seeds in pots of our earth from the garden - which reminds me its time to spread loam and move the last of the fruit bushes to their new bed, Plant two new roses, take cuttings and pot up as many pelargoniums as I can to save for next years repeat of the red white and blue jubilee theme for next year's coronation and we are currently looking after my cousin's little dog and its pouring with rain - see what I mean about needing a lockdown again We love our little Miss Sweep and looking after her when her Dad's away (she's a tiny black cavapoo) but trying to keep her and the floors clean in this weather is a big challenge. At least we have both had all our 5 injections now so we don't have to try and take her up to the memorial hall here and try and queue with her and take turns in the mad rush. Thankfully neither of us caught Covid but my sister's family all had it - Two were hospitalised aged 23 and 25 the 23 year old had just had her first baby - we think she likely caught it in the hospital. Luckily all well now but it was touch and go. We have friends who have caught it twice and three times so consider ourselves very lucky and happy to have both influenza and Covid injections. Only had a sore arm from any vaccinations and don't actually know of anyone who has had a severe reaction to a vaccination so happy to continue having them.
You have a wonderful writing style that is most enjoyable to read (and I teach English so that is a complement indeed!).
The myth that this illness only affects the elderly and that the death rate is tiny keep the conspiracy crowd tapping away at their keyboards. I wish a better vaccine would be discovered but until then, boosters it is.
There was talk of a vaccine to supposedly target current and future iterations of Covid, from Walter Reed here in the US. I haven't heard anything further about it in months. I do hope something comes of it.
Hi Chas - thanks for that link. It was very interesting. I had read that the nasal spray vaccine was the one to watch as in trials it was preventing transmission by priming the nasal mucosa, where the virus first enters the body. It surprised me that vaccinating the arm didn't generate antibodies in the airways, but it seems it doesn't. It will also stop the painful shoulder problem that has been a quite a long term side effect for both of us and a friend - a plumber who could hardly cope while it was on.
I have to agree with you even though some don’t. I had Covid before we knew what it was, that was early in Jan of 2020. No one would believe me. First symptom was loss of taste not only loss of taste but things tasted awful. that rapidly led to the other symptoms. The cough and the fatigue lasted a long time. it wasn’t a picnic by any means, but the FEAR that the new media fomented was ridiculous in my opinion. To censor doctors that were discovering what worked to treat this, was equally disgusting. There are no right or wrong in treating any diseases, its all an opinion and why we seek to get a second opinion. This one size fits all has to stop. End of rant. Thank you.
I am pretty sure my husband had it at Christmas 2019 . He had a terrible cough that lasted a fortnight - usually if he has a cold it doesn't go to his chest- and complained that he could not taste or smell the festive fare . I did not catch it despite 24/7 contact. But I did start taking oil of oregano capsules immediately he started with symptoms.
What strikes me is how quickly we forget the refrigerator trucks piled with bodies, and the mass graves being dug outside of NYC, which had the initial hit from the uncontained pandemic. You can search for those images if you need a reminder. The extreme early response was warranted in my eyes, while we learned more, considering the toll we witnessed, and all of the unknowns as to exactly how bad it would be and for whom . I would guess that if we had not taken those early extreme measures, before anything was known on how to best treat it, when we had not had the time to develop treatments to help lessen severity etc, that we would have seen an inordinate amount of deaths many times what we already did.
One of the hauntingly beautiful things in the early pandemic, was the Italians singing together from their windows and balconies. I will certainly never forget that either.
As for the timing to lessen restrictions, we probably waited a bit too long after we had proven treatments, and knew the risks better. That I can agree with.
Here is a start. covid19.onedaymd.com/2021/1... There were protocols to help people yet when many went to the hospital with breathing issues they were sent home and told to wait it out. My son’s MIL had that happen to her. She really had a battle because she has diabetes and high blood pressure. many people don’t realize that good nutrition and supplements and a few drugs that have been used for years would have helped them. Every disease we have been told early treatment is key. Why with this one we were told wait until you get so sick we need to put you in the hospital and on a ventilator. Makes no sense to me. We have a lot of censorship here in the US as never before.
Why with this one we were told wait until you get so sick we need to put you in the hospital and on a ventilator.
If you're speaking of during surges of infections, it was because they did not have the space and staff to treat mild cases, so they needed to prioritize those who were severe and in need of immediate care. This is just like triaging in the ED in hospitals every single day, where they prioritize those who need care faster. This is sadly what will happen in such a situation. It happened all over the world. Except for maybe communist China, where they were somehow able to build huge new temporary hospitals in an extremely short time. That's not to say, of course, that they still didn't triage.
Even not during the surges, why would you want hundreds of mild cases pouring into a hospital spreading the virus to more vulnerable people.
The link you posted is a blog. At one point in that blog it has a source link, to "America's frontline doctors" which, the link doesn't even work btw. I went to the site anyway, so much of the information on that site is not peer reviewed at all. They also take legitimate studies and try to twist them to fit their agenda, as a few close inspections showed me. They cite a legitimate peer reviewed article, and then you click on the citation and it doesn't go to the study, but rather a page filled with non-peer reviewed change of the information in the study so that it slants their conclusions. The meta study dated October 22nd on the hydroxychloroquine page is an absolute joke with how many times they do this, for example.
It wasn’t during the height of the break out You are certainly welcome to believe what you want however you asked for more info only to refute it so I won’t fall into your trap a second time Have a nice day
Many of the doctors that treated covid early on and know what to do have been censored. The doctors that never treat patients are the ones telling everyone else what to do. More and more is being revealed Look up and read some of the information on the Childrens Health Defense. If you want to know more. I have my opinions and others have theirs just like a lot of doctors. As an example everyone on this forum seems to think if one has Afib they MUST be on a blood thinner. Newest information I learned listening to a podcast between two cardiologists, is not everyone does, it depends. So just like this whole covid thing which is proving to be a huge experiment with the vaccine, it seems a lot on this forum can’t wait to get injected with it and every other medicine. Some of us want to take a wait and see stance, and we know what we know from the research we have done. So we keep that research to pull it out when someone questions what we believe? No, so I say you have to stay open minded and the answers will come.
Anxiety is my main trigger with AF, followed by stress and then dehydration, the first two I really struggle with . I experienced an anxiety episode a few weeks back when queuing for my 4th Vaccine . The previous three had been done at hospital but the last one was at a school and the people giving the vaccines didn't look like the normal nurses and that was enough to trigger something in my brain. I have a real dislike for needles! Pleased the echocardiogram has been done, so maybe a blessing in disguise!
At our vaccinations centre they were very efficient and processed a very large number of us well. They were running a bit late and we were told to wait in our cars for 20mins. It was/is an extraordinary effort by the uk government -and it is all free.
here in the UK most of us have had multiple vaccines against diseases like diphtheria, polio, scarlet fever, TB, smallpox and more the latterly the MMR vaccines. I think I saw a figure of 22 vaccines on average. Plus seasonal ones like flu and others like pneumonia and shingles. Yet only Covid seems to attract such fear. Is it because it was developed so quickly? Or does social media have a role? I tend to think that if the vaccine makes you ill the full illness would make you worse.
for the record my first ablation was 'undone" by the first Covid jab (but I was fine after the next three) but my second by flu ja. Third ablation hasn't worked but I'm very nervous about tomorrow's flu jab 🤞🤞🤞
Had my flu jab yesterday and apart from feeling more tired than usual yesterday evening and aches which I can’t work out relates to the jab or the gardening I did on Saturday, it was the easiest yet. I do think that timing is everything. I have 2 Shingles Jabs booked for the next month, two weeks apart. Hopefully then I’m done at least for the next 6 months.
My view now on future COVID jabs my current circumstances lead me to believe that the small risk of complications from a booster outweigh any advantage from serious illness from COVID, having survived one serious bout of COVID 12 months ago. To be honest I’m not nearly as afraid now of socialising and of becoming ill as I was prior to catching COVID. I take care but the harm from not socialising for me became greater than isolating, even though I was considered Extremely Vulnerable because of other conditions and I am immune suppressed.
I felt very ill for 3 weeks with AF episodes after jab 4 (Moderna), felt nothing after jab 5. I believe I was ill after jab 4 was at least in part because I’d had too many jabs, too close together on top of having COVID itself. The problem is we all react so differently and also differently at different times, it’s impossible to predict how one will respond to any vaccine at any time.
I think making these decisions can feel like being between a rock and hard place and that in itself is anxiety provoking. And what is more worrying for me is the uncertainty of what is or is not ‘true’. What saddens me most is that COVID and vaccinations have transmuted into Political rhetoric and such general anger, abuse, threats and violence, real and online, directed toward medics and scientists who have become the scape goats to be sacrificed for some.
That is why I think it SO important we ALL think positive thoughts and give thanks for what we have.
Just to let you know, I had the shingles jab a couple of weeks ago and it is the only one that completely knocked me out. I didn't feel ill, just exhausted and spent most of the day in bed. However, that was the live vaccine, I am presuming you are having the other, perhaps the fatigue won't be so pronounced or you may not get it at all. Certainly didn't make me change my mind about having some protection against shingles.
I had the second shingles shot some time ago. The nurse warned me that the arm would be quite sore. BOY, WAS SHE RIGHT! Other than that, so other issues.
So balanced as always CDreamer! My own AF kicked off close to the pandemic and the anxiety I experienced was truly awful. Many symptoms I thought were AF related weren't- except of course they were via the anxiety. Changing the brain's habit of anxiety takes practice and self acceptance. And I'm now off to purchase The Endorphin Effect. Have you come across the work of Dr Caroline Leaf? Inspirational work on neuroplascticity re mental health challenges abd even brain damage. Thank you for your positive influence in this group.
Understandable, I think the fear of both Covid or the vaccinations can be allayed once we experience them and things turn out ok. I have not had Covid as of yet, and I find it quite scary. I do not know how my body will react, and knowing studies have found atrial fibrillation to be an aggravating factor in some more severe cases, I am cautious. I also fear long Covid, as I am already plagued with paroxysmal AF that looms over me all the time. I really don't want another thing I may have to deal with for months or years on end. I am vaccinated, and my fears of catching Covid have not subsided. It isn't clear whether being vaccinated has any effect on the development of long Covid. Then there is the worrying studies of cognitive deficits created from Covid infection. So many unknowns.
It is such a pity that there is so much misinformation out there on multiple subjects.I cannot understand people who are deliberately putting things out there on multiple subjects that they know are not true and make it very plausible so that others believe them. Nowadays how does one sift fact from fiction ? That is a whole new can of worms.
It being developed so quickly would likely cause some skepticism, for certain. I would say though, social media plays a large part in just how intense the fear has become. Particularly the algorithms present on social media. In example, Facebook, once you have searched for something (i.e. covid vaccine bad reaction), you might join some groups related, you might follow some independent news outlets, and you start to get fed sponsored posts, and it will highlight posts from people and pages you follow related to bad reactions to Covid vaccines, and you end up surrounded by that information each time you open your newsfeed. You can easily end up in a place where you don't see contradicting positive information at all, only negative information. Add in that many people don't read things past the headline or a few sentences. This can definitely create an inability to have a balanced thought process, as you will not even see all of the information, but rather only what is very skewed to the negative.
Good luck with your flu jab! I still need to get mine this year.
How has your flue jab been? I was not too bad with mine. I deliberately left about a month between the flue and my 5th covid vaccine. Just after my 5th covid (just over 2 weeks ago) I developed two cysts. One on my leg the other under the lower eyelid. Not nice. I suspect it was because my body was under stress cos of the jab. Arm still aches a bit. Even so probably miles better than having covid. Some people hardly know they have covid and some have no reactions to jabs. As CDreamer says we are all different.
Well done you. Have been rained off my golf in a buggy today but don’t know about you we have been threatened with a hosepipe ban until next year at least. When it rains here now it seems to come down in buckets. Whatever happened to our good old English drizzle?
So the Covid jab effectively saved this person's life! If he hadn't got in such a state in a medical centre, his CV disease and AF would not have been found and the next thing would have been a heart attack or stroke!
Thank you for your post. I have not had any vaccines for 10 years. This is due to being severely allergic to Propolene Glycol (found in vaccines). Feeling perfectly alright I suddenly hit the floor unconcious. I was told a nurse quickly dialled 999 and I spent a day and night in hospital. I have been told to check every prescription and not to have any more vacinations.
I remained in rapid, persistent AF in all 3 of my first 3 COVID jabs.
It was not until 4th jab that I was CONTROLLED.
Anyway I dont worry or have anxiety over any of these jabs. Its not a
bit of the virus,
The teams were making the vaccine for the Sars virus apparently and it
could be fast tracked because of this.
As a general nurse student we obediently lined up for our many jabs
including Smallpox so I have immunity to the Monkey Pox it seems. Good.
We need trust.
By the way I don't have flu injections. They are hit and miss anyway.
Mum used to get a ferocious cold after.
A young guy here didnt want his COVID jab but later he did have his. He had
inflammation around the heart and passed this world. Now his family are
suing the pharmacy who did not tell him the risks.
Circulating I thought that they were all out there. The hospital who know my history text me.
6 months from last makes it early January 2023.
I might get a level of immunity for a cost. I'm still got immunity to measles which illness I have had at a young age.
Shingles I wil say No to.
This COVID is a world wide phenonomon. I can't help feeling a responsibility in
this 'herd immunity'. Don't you.
I go to the centre armed with banana and water and light biscuits.
I habve a piece of banana and have some water. I have the jab on outer side of arm and sit down for the 15-20 min wait having a drink and finishing my banana and a biscuit or two... kikened it to a PICNIC! Done.
Good to know that the smallpox jab gives one a certain immunity to monkey pox. I wonder if having had chickenpox very badly as an adult also gives one a bit of immunity?
Having had chickenpox means that you have it in your body but not in an active form but when under stress you can get shingles - which can be nasty if not caught in the first couple of days. I think a shingles jab is well worth it
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The worst part of lockdown - we were both shielding, was actually managing to get supermarket deliveries and then remembering to tick the no replacements box so we didn't end up with something in our order we hadn't ordered. We ordered dates and got a mango once 
Hated the garden centres being closed as I had lots of seeds and no compost - our earth here is not very good so wouldn't have tried growing seeds in pots of our earth from the garden - which reminds me its time to spread loam and move the last of the fruit bushes to their new bed, Plant two new roses, take cuttings and pot up as many pelargoniums as I can to save for next years repeat of the red white and blue jubilee theme for next year's coronation and we are currently looking after my cousin's little dog and its pouring with rain - see what I mean about needing a lockdown again 
Is Atrial Fibrillation hereditary? 💚
Atrial fibrillation and GORD - link? Just like having a heart attack?
Preparing for an Ablation for Atrial Fibrillation
Alcohol Abstinence in Drinkers with Atrial Fibrillation
