Bisoprolol beats me at last

Just done the road trip to Surrey to see family and the Big B has messed me over. Felt very tired on Sunday leaving home. HR slopped around all over the place bottoming out at 41 bpm. Been sleeping for England while away rang for a GP appointment on my return home -no luck! ( big surprise there). Was offered a pharmacy phone consultation which I accepted but nothing yet!( Another surprise).

No doubt its Bisoprolol after 10 years at 5mgs and & 2and half years at 7.5mgs its having its wicked way. HR been quite erratic around 44 to 60 and up as high as 119.

Gonna start weaning myself off it to get down to 5 mgs.

I have never felt so spaced out, brain fog, lethargic ....whatever.

Anyone weaned who might have advice please.

John

[Buffafly]

I’m your age and my heart is the same - not down to 44 because I’m on a low dose of diltiazem but 50 to 115. Nobody qualified to comment has suggested Sick Sinus Syndrome but I’m assuming that’s the problem. I’ll be interested to know what happens when you lower the bisoprolol dose.

[Gowers in reply to Buffafly]

I'm also on Diltiazam 300mg xl slow release capsule. Put on it as it's a rhythem drug & helped when I was in af flutter. But cardioligist looking to review it as after my 4th ablation 3 months ago as I' m now in NSR. Think it's trying to calm the heart but the heart is protesting & saying I don't need you! will be interesting to see what he suggests

[Hidden in reply to Buffafly]

Hiya Buff ..... many thanks. Yes I'll certainly let you know what happens when I perform the 'weaning' process. I am gonna do it over several weeks, do it very slowly as has been suggested by many who replied to my post.

John

[Singwell]

Sounds miserable. Sorry to hear it! I came off Bisoprolol cold turkey but only 2.5mg and tbh had no idea what I was doing. Just swopped to Flecainide during height of pandemic first wave. Felt nauseous and weird, like someone messing with my brain. I'm not really informed about these things but...might it be time to consider a pacemaker?

[Hidden in reply to Singwell]

Hiya Singwell,

Many thanks for that ...... yeah - certainly messed my brain up ! What really destroys me is the coldness, I get so cold ( as you'd expect when heart rate drops to low to mid 40's ) and just wanna sleep for England. Pacemaker ....... hmmmmm ! dunno, weighing up whether to pay private and get a Consultant review of the state of my heart with the view to sorting out a way forward.

John

[Auriculaire]

Do it slowly! Also consider the amount of Paracetamol you are taking for your shoulder. I ploughed through the long Francesoir article again on Paracetamol. Mostly it was about how it's recommendation for alleviating covid symptoms was thoroughly misguided but the main problem in this regard would apply generally. It messes about with the body's production of glutathione which is an essential antioxydant and important to mitochodrial function. Poor mito function - no energy. NAC - N acetyl cysteine - is a precursor to glutathione and incidentally is given intravenously in cases of Paracetamol overdose. I have taken this since March 2016 when our pharmacy recommended it for a bad cough following a respiratory infection. I looked it up and found out about it's other properties. I haven't had any respirarory infection since then .

[Ppiman]

Is paying for a cardiologist appointment not an option? That with a cardiac scan would be around £600 (echo) to £1000 (MRI), I am guessing.

Take care reducing a beta blocker as the heart does, I've read, become accustomed to them. I expect you know all this, though.

Steve

[tabletphobic]

Maybe I'm not exactly the same but I was rapidly bumped up to 10 mg and was increasingly feeling very unwell. I told my GP I wanted to reduce them and he was ok with that but I basically reduced myself going on how I felt. The less I took the better I felt

[wilsond]

I have been on various doses,not higher than 5 my. When irs been changed I was told to take usual dose one day,then suggested dose next day etc for a week. Might be worth asking a medic ( presuming you can get hold of one! Wonder if a Vet would do lol!)Hope you feel better soon x

[Hidden in reply to wilsond]

Many thanks wilsond,

I am starting the weaning tonight, dropping my dose by 1.25mg per night for a week, Then another 1.25mg the week after. See where I go to

😱😱

John

[wilsond in reply to Hidden]

Keep us updated and behave yourself! Take care mate

[Hidden in reply to wilsond]

OMG! Misbehave ..............

😂😂😇

Wots that ?????

Yeah, sure I'll let you know how things go ...... including any dogfights with my surgery !! So far they are 1 day late in getting back to me.

Thanks.

John

😱😱

[Teresa156]

I would echo what others have said and definitely reduce very slowly. I attempted to come off 2.5 mg bisop last year after only being on it for 8 weeks and halved it for one week and then half for every other day and then stopped, on instruction from cardiologist and it was far too quick. I literally went straight into Afib the day it completely left my system. Without boring you too much, the adrenaline took over at each reduction and heart rate elevated very quickly. Since then, I’ve reduced from 2.5 to 1.25, very, very slowly and my heart hasn’t even really realised, ( the odd mild acceleration, but very short lived) but it’s taken about 4 months.😳 I would also suggest getting some jewellery scales and a pill cutter ( fairly cheaply both from Amazon) rather than cutting pills by eye. It sounds over the top and very tedious, I know (believe me, it can be). I have become a bit of a weaning bore & geek, but I didn’t want to go through what I did before!

If you want to reduce to 5mg, I would suggest asking your GP for some 1.25mg as you reduce. It will make it easier with your exact reductions, rather than cutting up 2.5 mg pills as they will not always be equally cut, even with the best pill cutter in the world. If you buy jewellery scales you’ll also notice they don’t all weigh the same either which adds to the fun. You could initially take a 5 mg, a 1.25 mg and 3/4 of an additional 1.25mg. ( so about 7.2 mg, just over 7 mg daily) for a few days, then see how you go and then reduce another quarter of a 1.25 for a few days, until your heart adjusts and then another quarter. If your heart notices your reductions, weigh more and reduce by .10mg or lower at a time. I weighed and cut a few at a time and kept them in a pill box, to save the hassle of doing it every day.

Cardiologists and GPs think it can be done quicker, but in my experience, it can’t, but of course we are all different - good luck, whatever you do.

[PleasantPink]

I weaned off Bisoprolol 2.5 mg after taking it daily approx 4 months for control of PVC's. With the direction of my EP Cardiologists I was allowed to wean off because I could not tolerate exactly what you describe the brain fog, the fatigue and HR in the 60's I just could not tolerate and work. That said, even under his instructions the weaning was way too fast and I ended up with a rebound hypertension & very high anxiety, it was awful. And trying to get them to believe the withdrawl was causing this was another challenge. Anyway, I strongly suggest you do it all under the guidance of your doctor and watch your BP & HR while doing it so you can allow your body to adjust. BTW it took me months to then treat the hypertension with Lisinopril as a rescue med and now I am finally off that because my BP was going to low. Sometimes I think these doctors think the side effects are not as troublesome & worth the benefits, but they need to listen to the patient when the side effects are such a burden you cannot function. Good Luck !

[AussieHeart in reply to PleasantPink]

Well said!!

[pd63]

Not an expert but sounds odd that bisoprolol would cause issues after such a long time, how did you react when starting on it?

[Hidden in reply to pd63]

Hiya pd63,

I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF in Jan 2010 at which time my Cardio Consultant put me on Warfarin and Bisoprolol. ( these were in addition to other meds in my party bag). The Bisoprolol dose was 5mg and prescribed to be taken in the morning to bring about some control over my HR, which it has done. Some months after starting it I developed random, full flow nose bleeds. Everyone thought it was a bi product of Warfarin. However, I argued violently with my GP at the time it was nothing to do with Warfarin. It was all about Bisoprolol. She looked up in her book and told me to take it at night. No nose bleeds now for over 11 years. Apart from that - no other side effects.

In September 2020 (my current GP) increased my dose of Bisoprolol to 7.5 mg as an attempt to calm my blood pressure. Its had no bearing on my blood pressure at all .... bear in mind I have always had more specific BP meds (Ramipril and Felodopine), so this was more junk for the junk heap. There were no side effects until earlier this year when I became more lethargic .............. now in recent weeks I have joined the "Zombies of the living dead".

My plan is to reduce my Bisoprolol back to 5mg. I have given up trying to have any intelligent meeting/discussion with my GP and am going it alone. My plan was (and still is - having spent some time on research) to reduce my dose by 1.25mg per day for two weeks, then a further 1.25mg per day for a further two weeks which will then get me back to 5mg.

That said, I posted on here my specific post/question because having been on this forum for 12 years ( including the former and now defunct Yahoo hosted forum ) I have always found there is something to learn from the experiences of others ..... and so I am very very grateful for the recent input of everyone. Sorry I'm slow in acknowledging this but have been up in Surrey visiting my sister and brother in law ( poor sod has vascular dementia).

John