Internal Tremors

[ChanceyBoy]

Anyone with paroxysmal AF diagnosis have internal tremors starting in stomach, travelling up to chest area, with normal heavy palpitations but without abnormal rhythm or fast heartbeat?

[BobD Volunteer]

Thought that was pretty standard actually.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to BobD]

Hi Bob, you reckon the tremors are AF? Not showing up on multiple hospital ECGs!!

[BobD Volunteer in reply to ChanceyBoy]

No it is your aorta touching your other bit inside and making you aware of your heart I have always suspected. It is a common complaint often as a precursor to AF. Purely opinion of course but as I say a common comment here.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to BobD]

Thanks Bob. Getting these tremors on a daily basis now, resembles AF, similar symptoms, but never leads to full AF. GP had the Beta Blocker, Nebivilol upped to 2.5 to counteract tremors, but little impact so far.

[researchx in reply to ChanceyBoy]

keep us posted and let us know if any improvement on your meds

[researchx in reply to BobD]

Please explain your aorta theory. I have major issues in my jugular notch with electrical pulses. before every major arrhythmia I get (pulse 220bpm) ,the area above aorta spasms

[BobD Volunteer in reply to researchx]

No theory, just what I think. No science at all.

[researchx in reply to BobD]

That's all good-I think the electrical circuits may be going crazy--and when you said Aorta--my ears lit up...what does that feel like to you in that area...I thought I was the only one. I get a squeezing feeling sometimes. it could be my small hiatal hernia and esophagus or a combo of things

[BobD Volunteer in reply to researchx]

Long time ago now but from memory i was just a fluttering vibration in my solar plexus.

[researchz in reply to BobD]

I think I get it there too. Ive had it in my legs too .How distressful, all this malfunctioning. It feels like an earthquake is wanting to happen...I've been pushing out my solar plexus lately to keep my neck area from contracting. It is much like the abdominal vagal maneuver

[Singwell]

I get that with palpitations. BPM usually around 90s when it happens. I'm 9 weeks post ablation so I just sit down for a bit and breathe slowly. But prior to ablation these sensations definitely a precursor to AF.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to Singwell]

Singwell, similar with me BP goes from 60s to 80s, would love to know what the actual triggers are, vagus nerve or food!!

[BernardS]

I have symptom less permanent A/F and over year ago I developed a bubbling sensation at the pelvis area of my stomach as though the contents were 'fermenting' together with the feeling that I need to go to the toilet. (not the solution). I have never associated this with AF and don't think it is but you never know. Some six months ago managed an appointment at the doctors only for a nurse to have a listen with a stethoscope and ask if I was eating yeast - to which I said no. Then nothing until I asked if anything was happening last week which has resulted in my being asked for a sample. My advice is keep following up regularly any concerns you have.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to BernardS]

Thanks BernardS, yes the tremors do go that far down, only with me the pressing issue is the need to continually pass water, until the symptoms subside, even though I drink little fluid at this time.

[BobD Volunteer]

Just going back thirty years or so I used to complain to my GP about a bubbling sensation in my abdomen. He did various tests, decided I needed a gastroscopy (not fun) diagnosed stomach problems. Ten years later a house move and new GP saw me diagnosed with AF. Her mother had it so she understood what was what.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to BobD]

I've had 4 endoscopic investigation in last 5 yes, mild inflammation in stomach / duodenum + 20mm hiatal hernia, which complicates things cos you never know whether to symptoms at triggered by indigestion, heart or artery issues, or nerve / electrical issues.

[RAS54]

Had symptoms you describe two years before PAF was diagnosed. At time of symptoms I had a 24hour ECG that found no AF. Two years later I had a six day ECG. Found a run of 5minutes of AF. Now on Flecainide 50mg twice daily and apixaban 5mg.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to RAS54]

I've had 24 HR monitor on me 2 months ago - showed no AF, was a good day - only actually had 2 recorded AF episodes in 4 years, but because of previous heart attack and loads of stents cardio immediately started me on Apixiban to reduce stroke risk. Obviously I'm not bad enough for Flecainide - never been offered.

[BobD Volunteer]

All your other organs

[Mounder]

I've had episodes like that, starting at least 5 years before Afib diagnosis. Woke me up at night thinking I was having a heart attack. I still get them, but mostly when I've eaten too much or if I've put too many blankets on.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to Mounder]

Hi Mounder, yip, I very rarely have a full night sleep now, usually wake with palpitations or have had a PVC which shudders the chest, starts the SOB, and raises the heart rate. Food also plays a part, but you gotta eat something, sometime!!

[Bluseman]

Hello ChanceyBoy, yes I occasionally get this, and I am convinced that my AF is triggered by something in the stomach area, been to a Gastroenterologist but never really resolved anything significant, I get quite a bit of Nausea as well, especially about 30 mins after eating, but not always.John

[ChanceyBoy in reply to Bluseman]

Yes John, I am the same, Gastro consultants prescribed Nordtryptyline and Omeprazole in large dosage. Got to the stage I can eat very little without triggering the tremors. Certainly no chocolate, gravy, spicy food, fruit, crisps - diet is rice Krispies and semiskimmed milk, lol

[UK_5010 in reply to Bluseman]

Hi John. I was convinced my PAF was caused by stomach issues. For years I was generally ok with Ranitidine and low dose Bisoprolol but with Ranitidine being taken off the market nothing has come close. A private visit to a gastroenterologist resulted in an endoscopy and an all clear plus suggestion that gastric problems causing AF were rare. Referred back to a cardiologist and AF just getting worse. He did suggest a noctal antiemetic (excuse me?) may be worth considering but it's never been taken up. Have an ablation tomorrow at Stoke and just praying that will help. Hope you find you cause and can remedy it in some way!

[Bluseman in reply to UK_5010]

Hello UK_5010.Thanks for your response, similar to you really, private Gastroenterologist, endoscopy all good thank goodness, and an MRI to check Pancreas and other upper organs which was also thankfully ok, doctors don’t seem that interested in anyone with this sort of complaint, well their is no continuity with the NHS anymore, but that’s a bigger problem than we can solve, anyway I do hope your procedure is successful for you and the best of luck to you. John

[UK_5010 in reply to Bluseman]

Thanks John. I guess consultants are all specialists in their own pigeon holes and not many think more holistically. We have a similar problem at work where departments work independently of each other and don't always consider the ramifications in other areas of their actions. I guess we should be grateful for checks which show all clear on some things but it would be nice to get to the bottom of the problem and have a plan of action to implement!? Bill

[researchx in reply to UK_5010]

maybe it's not rare-sounds like they just don't know what to make of it. They call my 2 syncope episodes vasaovagal syncope and they both started in belly. It felt a lot more dangerous than they say.I also get that tremor feeling quite a lot.in fact I have it right now.it feels like something gets tangled up or pinched to cause the electrical tremor issue

[ChanceyBoy in reply to researchx]

Yes, that is exactly what the stomach tremors feel like, almost as if there is not enough room for some organs to function and are pinching nerves forming electrical misfires. Mind you, more nerves in stomach than in brain, gastro consultants tell me.

[UK_5010 in reply to ChanceyBoy]

Dr Sanjay Gupta talks about Roemheld syndrome possibly causing all sorts of problems stemming from stomach issues but mentioning it to doctors/consultants always brings on a blank look and usually some advice of not using Dr Google. One GP told me to stop monitoring my heart rate or, at least, stop looking at the data and another GP supported him.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to UK_5010]

Yip, a cardiologist suggested I just ignore the prominent thumping heart beat and occasional PVCs!! Yeah right, pretend they are not happening 🤣

[researchx in reply to ChanceyBoy]

Have you ever tried a benzo like Ativan or valium for this? I know it helps me and wish I could get it for daily use. I also have anxiety/stress issues daily ,I only use these for emergency and consider myself lucky to have them as they are frowned upon. They were not prescribed for my heart ,this time ,but have been in the past. I have read an article from a cardiologist who believes they are a good med for heart patients with electrical issues.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to researchx]

No, I have been trying to sort this without trying new meds, did suggest to GP to give me some epilepsy meds, but he needs dx from neurologist! I am suffering from anxiety which is not helping, but on so many heart and stomach meds I would just like to stop the lot. Suggested that to GP and he reckoned with the underlying conditions it was not a good idea! Did try diltiazem, couldn't handle it, have Lyrica in case pain gets severe. I'll ask the wife about these ones you suggest, she's a nurse, see what her reaction is.

[researchx in reply to ChanceyBoy]

let me know what she says...I feel that 1 medication would take the place of many--it feels like such a little miracle drug. But its a controlled substance these days. Ativan(lorazapam) just makes me feel what I think a normal person should feel like. very relaxed. other than that ,if you cant get it ,baclofen helps a bit with spasms and is pretty mild feeling.it is not your average muscle relaxer that makes you feel zonked, altho it can help you sleep. off label use for anxiety because it is Gaba agonist

[researchx]

I have svt and runs of afib , and have had these tremors for yrs even before dx of arrhythmias. getting more frequent now.it just feels like my whole electrical system is strained and vagus nerve is not right. My pulse is often normal with the tremors(feels like small earthquake shaking inside that moves to different areas of body)

[ChanceyBoy in reply to researchx]

Yes, that's it. I reckon vagal activity too, mostly right sided, neck to torso vibrations, dreadfully sore back and right side of chest. So glad I raised this post, thought it was just me, never for minute thought this was precursor for Afib, now I'm convinced.

[GM1987]

Hi, chanceyaboy I’m glad I come across this post,

I constantly get these stomach tremors at night when I lie back, it’s like my stomach is having spasms, they seemed to subside after months on ramipril & bisoprolol, however I underwent an ablation In February to get rid of the paroxysmal af, I was recently taken off bisoprolol after my heart showed improvement on a echocardiogram, I stopped the bisoprolol for 3 days before all the previous symptoms stated again, I finally got to speak to my cardiologist which was 10 days after & he started me back on them again to avoid going back into AF, I’m only currently 3 months into the recovery of that cardio ablation for my paroxysmal AF, is the stomach thing normal??? I’m sick of telling my GP about it, I believed that I have some sort of stomach problem but a endoscopy proved me wrong as it was all good. I’ve been worrying it’s something in the stomach causing this problem to my heart, It’s a frustrating problem but I’m relieved it is a bit more common with AF.

[ChanceyBoy in reply to GM1987]

Hi, it is amazing how many have linked the tremors to potential AF. I describe the tremors as mild electrocution, starts just below ribcage RHS, travels to centre of stomach above naval, stays there and gets more prominent then moves up into chest and esophagus. Then palpitations start. Can last for hours, been bad for days now. But no AF on cardio monitor, normal sinus rythym 60-80 bpm. I was on 10mg Ramipril & up to 5mg bisoprolol for two years until last July; showed my cardiologist an article indicating bisoprolol was no use for vagal AF and he changed me to 2.5mg Nebivilol. Also on Felodipine, calcium channel blocker, plus good friend Apixiban. All the meds fuel the acid reflux problems.Problem is gastro consultants don’t speak to cardio consultants and GPs are generalist, tinkering with dosages. Tell you what, anxiety and stress a lot to do with this. How I survived the heart attack I’ll never know, never been the same since, but glad to be here to see my grandchildren born. Keep the chin up.

[researchx in reply to ChanceyBoy]

A heart attack? oh no! how long ago? blockages or no? any procedure done? thanks for info on AF types-I see one can have both types. stress comes from the adrenergic activity- which would be that form of AF and the vagal form from the abdomen. beta blockers helps stops the stress/anxiety. If you can't get the lorazapam, another med to take usually before bed is remeron. It helps block cortisol, adrenalin. I take 15 mg before bed with 10 mg ambien(another controlled substance). Also Caffeine can be very harmful with these things going on.

[UK_5010 in reply to GM1987]

Hi GM1987. You are not alone! I was quite well controlled with PAF on Ranitidine and low dose Bisoprolol and then they decided to discontinue the Ranitidine. Nothing has come close to replacing it - Cimetidine, Nizatidine, Famotidine or Pantoprazole. Then again, it has got worse since a Covid episode in November 2020. I have an ablation later to-day so hope that helps. Good luck with trying to change Bisoprolol - increased dosage is all I get and it sends me into Bradycardia at 35 bpm especially at night followed by AF as the heart seems to try and compensate. I'm afraid doctors only seem to hear what they want to hear unless you can find one that has suffered AF themselves.