Hi all
So I have AF and a Flutter .
a) do both always trigger together , so does the flutter only happen when my AF starts .
B) what are likely symptoms of just the flutter happening on its own
C) is there a way of knowing from my symptoms if it’s my AF or my flutter ?
Just curious on the above as my most common symptom is lightheadiness and I was just wondering if that’s always me in AF or just the Flutter etc
Hey I have a both issue AF and Aflutter been battling both for 6 months my first question is do you have a heart condition?
Apparently when I asked my EP he said it’s very hard to tell when your in Afib or a flutter because the symptoms are very similar but you can call me crazy or not lol I feel like when I’m in flutter the heart is less skippy and more rapid almost like a tachycardia and when I’m in Afib I have more erratic heart rate jumping from really low to really high which in my opinion is the worst feeling. That pretty much the only difference I find between them. Now in terms of triggers honestly for me initially it was a lot coffee and stress but since I’m in permanent flutter I don’t even know what triggers it I hope that helps answer your question
You are right. Afib is irregular A flutter is regular, when you check your pulse.
No my heart is otherwise 110% healthy
Reason I asked because I have a congenital heart condition HOCM so that’s the main reason when I’m in permanent flutter
I have no idea if I’m in flutter or AF unless I use iPhone watch .
I’m scheduled to have cryoblation for my AF and an Ablation for my flutter very soon .
Interesting so you run an ecg on your Apple Watch and it tells you if your in flutter or Afib?
iWatch algorithm will only diagnose AF. Kardia will diagnose a lot more and picks up Flutter.
I thought so what is Kardia
It’s a mobile ECG recorder - not a wearable as iWatch is. Many of us on this site have them and find them very useful for diagnosis. Recommended by the AFA and my EP helped test them.
Are they going to do them at the same time
What is cyroblation?
a) do both always trigger together , so does the flutter only happen when my AF starts .
No, both AF and Flutter can start individually.
B) what are likely symptoms of just the flutter happening on its own
Much as AF - but everyone is very individual - usually I knew because of HR as Flutter transmits atria - ventricles 3:1 but again - very individual. AFl is a regular, irregularity ie: you can see AFl on it’s own because the rhythm will be regular - looks like the teeth on a saw and is called saw tooth pattern. AF pattern on ECG is much more chaotic and very irregular. If you can feel your palpitations then beating out rhythm on a hard surface can useful way of distinguishing AF from AFl but not from Tachycardia and AFl.
C) is there a way of knowing from my symptoms if it’s my AF or my flutter ?
Only from looking ECG and when you have both together that’s also really difficult.
Kardia can sometimes pick up both together but not the iWatch. I have both.
HI CDreamer, I have Apple watch and have considered getting Kardia. Do you use both to interpret/identify rhythms? Does having both give you more info? I have stopped taking flecainide, without any issues and am in the process of slowly reducing Verapamil (so far so good). Monitor with Apple Watch many times everyday. So far no Afib detected by Watch and no high heart rates. Months ago watch sent me notification of Afib episode, but another time it failed to notify me (maybe because I had taken a 'reading' and watch did not see the point in telling me?). I really want to know more about the rhythms, so that I can take pill in pocket if needed and also for next visit to cardio. Think I have not had flutter since starting program to reduce/stop the 2 meds. I am learning how to 'analyse' the ECGs generated by my Apple Watch (only wish Apple would have a tutorial showing how watch displays perfect sinus rhythm and how to interpret one's rhythm. Cheers
The iWatch is useful as it is a wearable and I find the constant monitoring of value. The Kardia gives a lot more information, the algorithms able to be more precise, you can send away for analysis - for a cost of £5. You can store other information and make notes such as symptoms, you can generate a date range report which my EP & GP finds of interest and was particularly useful when I had COVID as it highlights all unusual activity and selects sample ECG’s. Eg: I know in a 7 day period I had 13 episodes of AF and 2 episodes of Tachycardia. Graph shows the highest and lowest HR recorded and if there are any anomalies it also gave analysis of the typical QRS with all the numbers. You can record weight, BP, some comparable machines will record through BT to the iPhone.
I have had the Kardia since 2013 when it was being trialled and my EP was part of the team assessing it so I am far more used to it than the iWatch. I just think they are useful for different things and the Kardia more accurate but it is a lot more sensitive to even the slightest movement and electrical interference so needs to be used with care.
I have both. I can tell the difference as flutter for me feels like a fast whirring feeling and I go lightheaded.AFib is like a frog leaping in my chest .
But seems we are all different!
Thinking back to 2018 when my arrhythmia first started paroximally, I remember that my heart rate used to double exactly and not vary, (70 up to 140) The events became more frequent and by the time it became persistent constantly, 6 months later and I finally went to the GP, my pulse was fast and irregular (90-130) So with hindsight it seems I started with flutter and ended up with constant AF. I never mentioned the early 'doubling' phase when I was diagnosed with constant AF, I should have done !
Curiously my AF ablation, September 2020, only held me in NSR for a week......then the 'doubling' started again constantly until 4 months later a flutter ablation sorted that.
That was 10 months ago. Holding NSR well now.
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just for info if anyone is interested, I was on bisoprolol to help keep my rate around 90-ish, for 15 months. Then after an aborted AF cryoablation, (aborted as I went into asystole twice, on a sedated procedure) I was then changed to sotalol for 6 months. I had another ablation, RF this time under full GA, then when the flutter reappeared I was put on amiodarone, instead of sotalol, for 3 months, before my flutter ablation.
Now no meds, other than the routine NOAC anticoag, just due my age, (69)
I was ablated for flutter 6 months ago and seems the ablation was successful. Although during my ablation they discovered I have afib as well. Currently on flecainide and that seems to have settled the afib for now. They think I might have asymptomatic afib waiting for the holt monitor readings. They tell me afib is easier to control. Not sure if I want another ablation.All the best.
I have both of them diagnosed. My experience is as follows:
Flutter is something that is much easier to handle. It feels like elevated heartrythm, its stable. For me usually between 110-140 bpm. I can walk I can talk, but feel bad because heart feels like racing. My flutter is diagnosed as 2:1 type, which means every time ventriculars contract, my atrias have contracted twice. My flutter may come if I take antiarrythmic drug during AFIB episode, then it may sometimes turn into flutter after which it doesnt go away unless I go to ER and get electrical cardioversion. So yes, for me flutter is always triggered by AFIB.
Fibrillation for me is like hell on earth. No normal rythm, uneven pauses, some beats are strong, some weaker, feels like you have a fish in your chest trying to force its way out. I usually feel lots of anxiety, bordering panic attack. Fear of death. Antiarrythmic drugs usually end an episode. For me AFIB is triggered by ectopic beats which may turn into full arrythmia episode.
Does Anyone here have AF & Atrial flutter ? 
AF or flutter? Stress test and more.
What is a AF flutter
Atrial Flutter
Two weeks post flutter ablation
