This trial indicates that there is a link between high Omega 3 levels and AF: "Dose-Related AF Risk With Omega-3 Fatty Acids?" medscape.com/viewarticle/94...
1.8gm of Omega 3 fatty acids a day appeared to increase AF risk by 84%. 840mg a day did not increase risk. Other high dose trials also showed an increase in AF. A serving of salmon or mackerel contains around 4 gm of Omega 3's, so it might be wise to restrict those to a couple of times a week
Very good to know thanks Mark. I have taken a capsule everyday for decades. Just looked at the container and is only 250mg. I do eat fish several times a week . The maddening thing is today’s superfood is so often re classified as bad for you a mile down the road
I’d have to agree with you there peony. Only I would add that today’s ideals in general will be laughed at by future generations. Humans in general are completely reactive. Very rare that we preempt anything. We always seem to be reacting to mistakes previously made and future generations look back and say “what a bunch of idiots”. Cigarettes and asbestos being 2 things that spring to mind. Probably add alcohol and sugar to that as well. In 100 years I think people will look back and say how stupid were they? They knew what sugar and alcohol was doing to them yet they continued 🤣 don’t get me wrong a good drink is rather enjoyable 🤣 and anyone who wants to spend their life doing these things is well within their rights too, it’s your life to live at the end of the day.
I think artificial intelligence is about to lift the lid on everything and show us just how stupid we are over the next 50 years and who knows what happens after that 🤔🤣 strap in, enjoy the ride and wish your kids good luck while you go for the long hibernation. 💀 ☠️
In terms of food, I think in general if you keep it too natural whole food you can’t really go wrong. As long as you massively vary it and dont just eat lamb chops and potatoes everyday 🤣 avoid man made rubbish and junk food and in general stick to if it grows or breathes then eat it. That’s my motto anyway. Just my opinion and no doubt plenty of you will think I’m talking 💩. But it’s my opinion none the less 👍
I agree with you . Look at the new camera they are trialing for investigating the gut . People will be bemused to think a doctor used to shove a “ hosepipe”into your er alimentary canal . Ditto with ablation and many surgeries . Agree even more about food . I grow some veg and the difference in taste is unbelievable . No chemicals . And the veg is turgid with moisture not wilted . A few footsteps and minutes from plot to plate . Much of the food we buy is anything but fresh and nutritionally depleted as a result even when we do our best and cook from scratch
Tech is flying along now peony and once AI becomes general there will be no stopping it. Beyond human comprehension, literally. A subject I enjoy listening too along with anything scientific to be fair. Lex fridman has a brilliant podcast full of it if you ever wanted a break from your library 🤣 and if your a geek like me 🤔😉 which I doubt you are 🤣
Sounds like you’ve got the food sorted. We have a small veg patch, a couple of trugs and various planters placed around the garden but not enough to sustain us all year round unfortunately. Would love an allotment. Not for me but the mrs is a dab hand in the garden 🤣 ive tried to get her to sell up and move to Cornwall on various occasions but she’s having none of it. Spotted a lovely ex farmhouse conversion with a ridiculously large amount of land with it. Enough for a huge allotment, cattle 🐄 chickens etc. Would have been totally self sustainable almost and cost less than our place 😩😩 can’t get her too take the plunge while her mothers still around. Might have too do something about that 🤔🤔 🤣🤣
Naughty you leave your mother in law alone ! I ve downloaded Lex Friedman’s podcast summaries I will try those first his main podcast is very well subscribed . I listen to a lot of podcasts , mainly politics and gardening , tech will be a change will let you know
Yeah he’s got a much bigger following since he went on joe rogan! Very interesting topics on there. Some of them can be a bit mind bending if your not used to that sort of discussion 🤣 has some legit geniuses on there though. I love it! 👍 enjoy!
Joscha Bach is a cracker! Absolute and total geek through and through but I find his take on reality is unreal!
It depends that area that the swallowed camera will scan. For example, you can have a virtual colonoscopy (my nurse practitioner hadn't heard of it) where the bowel and colon are inflated with carbon dioxide whilst you are in a CT scanner (really easy procedure). If a polyp is there, it will still need a conventional colonoscopy with the "garden hose" to remove it. It's not a problem provided that the canula delivering fentanyl and sedative stays in your arm. On one occasion it fell out and I bit the end off the gas and air mouthpiece from the discomfort. On the last one they doubled the medication and I may have dropped off to sleep at one point. I'm due for another adventure with the "garden hose" next Wednesday, and I've asked if I can have the same amount of medication 
Am sorry but you did make me laugh and I know it’s not funny . It’s where you bit the end off the gas and air nozzle . I hope your teeth survived . I have had one adventure with the garden hose myself and I look forward to the day when someone devises a medical procedure where I don’t have to be present 😬. If that’s not possible then drugs seem like a good way to go . Hope all goes well for you on Wednesday
Thanks. The time when I bit off the mouthpiece was puntuated every couple of minutes by me shouting "Christ!". Then I would grab the gas and air mouthpiece and suck like a drowning man until I nearly passed out. That went on until I bit the end off the mouthpiece - at that point the consultant decide to "pull stumps" so to speak"! On the next one she found a 20mm flat polyp where the colon joins the stomach. That had to be broken up in place; I was probably snoring at that point. Full marks to the consultant for having me back. This Wednesdays bit of fun is to check if it's regrown. Coupled with "what can we do with the prostate this time?" my body doesn't know whether it's Thursday or half-past two!
It sounds like an episode of childbirth ! Poor you ! Black humour is the only thing that gets you through those situations . Am sure your consultant looks forward to having you for the entertainment value if nothing else ! A 20mm is quite a big chap so definitely better out than in . You definitely need drugs ! More effect than appealing to a deity ! Update required please . They have probably insured their equipment against vandalism following your visit !
I bet the nurses and consultant surgeon thought "wuss, try childbirth". Back in the day I had peritonitis that was diagnosed as gastric flu (!), so it was some time before I was admitted for surgery that was thought to be appendicitis. A friend who had experienced childbirth and peritonitis, said that peritonitis was more painful.
Over the years I've been grateful for the care that I've had and still get from the NHS even during lock down and being clinically extremely vulnerable. There have been some slip-ups but they have been few. I recall last year being admitted to A&E. The nurse looking after me turned up with a comfortable bed (A&E beds are not comfortable) at 1:30 am saying "look what I've found", and pushed me off to a single room. Another nurse made a bed out of chairs for my wife and brought both food for both of us. Even care in a very good private hospital hasn't been that good.
I have no qualms about Wedneday, especially if the pre-ordered dose of fentanyl and sedative end up in my arm
When I had my encounter with the garden hose I chose not to have sedation . I just never do well on drugs. I didn’t experience anything other than mild discomfort ( though it’s not what I would choose as a day out !) but the surgeon did tell me he wanted me to chug on the gas and air when he was going round a corner which I duly did, felt no pain but suddenly became very chatty and my legs started going wobbly ( too much chugging the surgeon informed me. No pleasing some people). I think we all have different innards some with more kinks and strictures or inflammation making the whole thing painful ). I was there under false pretences , blood detected at routine screening due to same painkiller that caused the AF. Had all healed . The surgeon did tell me it was a difficult colonoscopy but he was probably talking about me ! I had the Prof and I suspect the skill of the surgeon has a lot to do with the experience too . Can’t agree with you more about the kindness and care of the NHS. Everyone was so lovely to me and when I had my AF episode. We are so lucky in this country . As regards childbirth didn’t feel a thing. Epidurals both times so no bravery awards for me . I hope your drugs are served up as requested and they find a reinforced gas and air nozzle especially for you . I think you are really brave and I do love a bit of black humour . You take care on Wednesday and please let us know how you get on ❤️
I've had three flexible sigmoidoscopies - two without pain killer - where the garden hose gets to travel around the lower bowel (no problem). Without pain killer, you can drive afterwards and have a cup of tea and a biscuit. Later, when it came to a colonoscopy I thought it was the same as a sigmoidoscopy, and I was going to decline the pain killer and sedative (silly me). I didn't realise that the garden hose was going to travel the full length up to where it joins the stomach. As I've mentioned, the canula fell out so I didn't have any pain killer and sedative anyway. The next time I asked the nurse to use plenty of tape to keep it in place.
Thanks to everyone for their good wishes.
I hope things went well for you today 🙂
No gas and air mouthpieces were harmed during this production!
Thank you for your good wishes. All went well, with no re-growth of the polyps and, I'm cleared for a year. The consultant and I chatted about medical students not recognising homonymous hemianopia (as you do). It's great to be eating food again, although my body is like a cat - that's not about being lithe and supple - it's not liking change. First it's no food and loads of weird fluid, then poking the innards with a length of hose, followed by food again.
So glad it all went well and a respite from investigations . When you said your body was like a cat I was worried you were coughing up fur balls for a minute ! Don’t think most bodies like that much change . You are not alone ! Enjoy your year away from the garden hose !
I’ve had a few turns with the hosepipe too! Hope all goes well for you on Wednesday.
Ah the joys of a colonoscopy!! Can’t wait for my next one, NOT.
I had that recently after having a nightmare colonoscopy (the consultant later said I could easily have had more sedative). I wonder too if the person doing my colonoscopy started before the drugs took effect. The CT scan was ok apart from lying on my stomach with my arms above my head. I have never in my life slept on my stomach and never even sunbathed on my stomach back in the day and I was groaning. But it was over quite quickly. Good luck on Wednesday, and insist on the extra medication!
Good luck next wed I found the clearing out of the bowel beforehand somewhat unpleasant. Don’t forget to repopulate your microbiome with good bacteria etc afterwards
Yuk that stuff they give you tastes foul. And so much of it, about 4litres.
Sure does
Hey E...Spotted your name there and nearly did a Dione Warwick 🎵Scroll on By🎵but I spotted your reference to ‘asbestos’, which I used to consume a lot of but it played havoc with my teeth. Didn’t have AF in those days, so wouldn’t like to comment on the affect it could have had on that‼️ 😱
🤣🤣 maybe dipping it in your daily brew or using as a sandwich filling wasn’t a great idea then stew 🤔
Well SPROG...I know you’re the scientific type and a good percentage of what you say is correct but to use it as a sandwich filler is down right dangerous. ENOUGH OF THIS SILLINESS ... I’ll be getting barred. 🤡
Dangerous but tasty 😛
E...that sounds similar to the cream cake advertisement. ‘NAUGHTY BUT NICE’
We’d have made a good standup duo, without doubt. 🍰
“More doctors smoke camels” 🐪 is my personal favourite!
If we’re going for comedy duos it’s got to be hale and pace for me! 🤣
E...Thought you were supposed to ridem not smokem. Egypt, renowned for running out of baccy. What about ‘Hale & Pacemaker’
You have the last go SPROG and that’s it. I’ll do a thumbs up and we’re done.
Hi there. Asbestos is breathed into the lungs through working with asbestos material, how can you possibly eat or chew it?
Well shipyard...it may be better for you to consult my dietary adviser(Elli86). He’s an absolute connoisseur when it comes to eating habits and most other things. Tell him that I referred you and I’m sure he will guide you through. 👍
Thanks, tickerprobs for the quick reply,would you be so kind as to reply with some of the food containing asbestos,
really appreciate your response
That would mean sharing all my secrets steptoe. I can maybe post some of my cookbooks but I can’t give away my age old secrets. They’ve been passed down from my great great granpappy. He used to make asbestos Helmets in ww2 and then he got into baking.
Yes E...I recall reading up on those times. It seems that a lot of the lads succumbed to trench anus or asbestosis of the head and not necessarily the bullet.
I wonder if your great great grandpappy ever bumped into my great great grandpappy and if they got on as famously as we get on❓
Roger that ST! Without doubt they would have crossed helmets at some point
I do recall trench Anus being a massive problem in both world wars. I think the truth about hitler being force fed an asbestos sandwich 🥪 will come out eventually as well!
What is bad today is good in ten years and vice versa. Remember Woody Allen's Sleeper?
The line I remember most from Sleeper is when he wakes up in future , sees the new sex pod and says ‘I haven’t had sex in 200 years, 204 if you include my marriage’.
😂...
I note from the study; "Results showed that over a median 5.3 years of treatment and follow-up, the primary endpoint of incident AF occurred in 3.6% of the study population. For the omega-3 part of the trial, incident AF events occurred in 3.7% of patients taking EPA/DHA vs 3.4% of the placebo group, giving a hazard ratio of 1.09, which was not significant (P = .19)."
The sample size was good, but you would need details of their mobidities. There was a study on vitamin C a few years ago that warned supplements could cause cancer, but most of the patients were already in the risk group.
One always has to be careful with stats For some things number needed to treat can be a good one
This was a fun discussion as well as interesting. I too have a tale john-boy-92 of a gastric investigation in the early 1970s. I had a stomach perforation as it turned out. Duty Dr was a bit patronising and asked if "I'd like a cheese sandwich" and promptly stuck a massive scope into the back of my mouth. No warning or anything. He was rewarded with projectile vomit! The end result of that caper was that at 19 years old the tied my vagus nerve - just in case. I didn't have an ulcer, just a hole. Am convinced that long term this has led me to where I am. Re the OP - thanks for the heads-up on Omega 3 and benchmark of two oily fishes being maybe too much. I'm a follower of Dr Tim Spector - he of the Diet Myth book and si called poo project. Recommend checking him out on YouTube. He suggests eating 50 different plant types a week if possible. This includes nuts, fruits, grains legumes etc as well as the obvious veggies. Not easy I can tell you - I've managed 40. But it's an interesting suggestion that can make us more 'gut healthy'.
That is very interesting Mark. I take a daily dose of 600mg combined EPA and DHA in capsule form and have been trying to get to the bottom of an ectopic heart beat/AF. Not saying it is definitely the omega three but I might see what happens if I stop the supplements for a few days.
Hi changeling please update on how you get on
Tomred, update just posted, very interesting results!!
How interesting ! Thank you Mark.We regularly eat sardines, herrings, salmon and other fatty fish.
It is worth noting eskimos with a high fish consumption had the lowest incidence of heart disease until they introduced sugar into their diet. Another triumph for western “ civilisation”
Not quite:
"Most studies found that the Greenland Eskimos and the Canadian and Alaskan Inuit have CAD [Coronary Artery Disease] as often as the non-Eskimo populations. Notably, Bang and Dyerberg's studies from the 1970s did not investigate the prevalence of CAD in this population; however, their reports are still routinely cited as evidence for the cardioprotective effect of the "Eskimo diet." We discuss the possible motives leading to the misinterpretation of these seminal studies."
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/250...
...and this:
"The Secret To The Inuit High-Fat Diet May Be Good Genes"
npr.org/sections/thesalt/20...
I have only had a quick look, due to fact I am supposed to be mowing the lawn . Those studies seem to be from the 1970s. The carbohydrate content of the Eskimo diet increased from 2-8% in the 1940s , to 40% in the 1970s. Am happy to be corrected as you have clearly looked into it more deeply than I have
Peony4575. The "myth" originated in the 1970's, but this is a study from 2014. The average life expectancy of the Inuit population in 1990 was 68 years, whereas Canadians overall lived to 78. From 1991 to 2001 Canadians added 2 years to their life expectancy, whereas it stayed the same for the Inuit population.
huffpost.com/entry/eskimo-m....
What about the populations in Greenland and Finland ? Due to the increase in carbs/sugar they have seen a steep increase in the incidence of diabetes . Don’t CVD and diabetes tend to go hand in hand?
This article explains:
"Inuit might consume more carbohydrates than most nutritionists have assumed.[16] Because some of the meat the Inuit eat is raw and fresh, or freshly frozen, they can obtain more carbohydrates from their meat, as dietary glycogen, than Westerners can.[16][17] The Inuit practice of preserving a whole seal or bird carcass under an intact whole skin with a thick layer of blubber also permits some proteins to ferment into carbohydrates.[16] Furthermore, the blubber, organs, muscle and skin of the marine mammals that Inuit eat have significant glycogen stores, which assist those animals when oxygen is depleted on prolonged dives.[18][19][20] For instance, when blubber is analyzed by direct carbohydrate measurements, it has been shown to contain as much as 8—30% carbohydrates.[19] "
and concludes:
"Traditional Inuit diets derive approximately 50% of their calories from fat, 30–35% from protein and 15–20% of their calories from carbohydrates, largely in the form of glycogen from the raw meat they consumed.[24][25] This high fat content provides valuable energy and prevents protein poisoning, which historically was sometimes a problem in late winter when game animals grew lean through winter starvation. It has been suggested that because the fats of the Inuit's wild-caught game are largely monounsaturated and rich in omega-3 fatty acids, the diet does not pose the same health risks as a typical Western high-fat diet.[26] However, actual evidence has shown that Inuit have a similar prevalence of coronary artery disease as non-Inuit populations and they have excessive mortality due to cerebrovascular strokes, with twice the risk to that of the North American population.[27][28] Indeed, the cardiovascular risk of this diet is so severe that the addition of a more standard American diet has reduced the incidence of mortality in the Inuit population.[29] Furthermore, fish oil supplement studies have failed to support claims of preventing heart attacks or strokes.[30][31][32]"
I am comparing the modern Eskimo , referred to in your very recent studies, with the traditional eskimos cut off from access to modern food and transport . They have acquired our diseases along with our diet and a more sedentary lifestyle
Please find a research paper - before the now discredited 1970's study that was based on incorrect data (as per the 2014 article that I posted) - showing that a diet based on fish fat and blubber is good for the heart !
The research states that Eskimos suffer more strokes than the general Canadian population and live 12 year less.
openheart.bmj.com/content/3...
Would you mind if we left the debate there as it’s not a subject so dear to my heart that I want to devote time to researching it . You won’t convince me by modern studies that cannot exclude confounding factors and clearly I won’t convince you . Go well
So, you make an incorrect pronouncement and you want to have the last word, without refuting a single one of the many scientific studies that I sent you. I understand. OK.
No. Not interested in having the last word. Be my guest. Last word away. I didn’t see it as a competition or an argument. I have refuted the studies you produced because they all compared modern not historical populations . Please do have as many last words as makes you happy
I am both disgraced and appalled at your shockingly poor Eskimo knowledge p. I had quite a bit of respect for you but you now have some ground to make up! Tut tut! 😉
I know . Class dunce . What can I say !
All that time you spent in Greenland building igloos and skinning seals and you brought no knowledge of note back with you? 🙄🙄 just can’t help some people!
Lol it’s true . All I had to show for the experience was chilblains and a pet walrus 😯
🤣🤣🤣 well that’s not too bad then is it? Quite impressed actually. What did you name him and more importantly where does he sleep? You didn’t kick the mr out of bed did you?
Walter and he sleeps in the bath . The walrus that is 😆
And I love my salmon ...Thanks Mark , something else I enjoy that I must avoid now ...
I just won’t eat anything now .😂
Interesting research - thanks for the article.
I wouldn't stop the fish, may be moderate the amount you eat. I think a couple of servings a week of oily fish is fine. Fish also provides lots of other nutrients which you don't get with pure fish oil.
That is somewhat extreme but they do say the odd bit of fasting is good. Don’t do it myself though
When reading about this research, I suggest you also read the comments from a number of doctors questioning the validity of this research. Like everything these days, it seems, it is hard to know where the truth lies.
Thanks Mark for posting. I am going to cut down on wild salmon as it has been a regular but have felt a bit odd and last night after a portion peed a lot in the right; the latter may be a coincidence as sometimes this occurs but need to follow more closely food during the day and the subsequent 24 hrs.
Oh thanks I just bought a bottle of high omega three oil and I did take a big old shot glass full of it that day ...it coincided with me letting myself get dedhyrdated which didn't help and then that night had a Chinese so basically did everything wrong that day and unsurprisingly had a few flobbles and flibbles from the heart complaining about its dreadful owner. I will go sparingly with it. I bloody love fish but hardly ever get it anyway so as long as I don't overdo it its good.
Hey Gonna...As my old great great grand pappy used to say, when he took off his helmet and stuck his head above the parapet...”BRING IT ON”. He never did return home‼️‼️. I never realised there were soooo many anoraks and scientists on this forum but they mean well. 😇
Haha yes you noticed my scientific term of flibbles and flobbles there I hope! Lol!
Well Gonna...you’ve obviously got a PhD in human behaviour and terminology. Don’t know if it will do you much good mind‼️‼️
I really don't cos I have no idea what your comments are getting at to be honest. Sorry I can be a bit aspy ...I must be missing something. Not sure what you're talking about anoraks and scientists or about your grandpa getting killed in the war or about a PhD in human behaviour. really I haven't a clue what this has to do with omegas.
In all honesty Gonna...neither have I. Just pointing out the nit pickers (bless their hearts) saying you can’t have this and you can’t have that. I’m careful what I do and don’t do but life is for living, as my great grand pappy used to say, before he was shot to pieces, so to speak.
Ah I see. sorry I thought maybe you were having a go at me lol!! Yeah there's only so much you can do. I was sure I'd read omegas were Great for the heart health. I remember one week seeing the daily mail said " brocolli cures cancer" and the next it said "brocolli causes cancer" I feel like the little things don't matter as much as enjoying life. The heart wants to be happy and love life. And not be worried. So although I wouldn't quite takes my helmet off during a war I certainly wouldn't sit in the trenches refusing to eat because of trace amounts of carcinogens lol! Thanks for explaining 🤪
You also don’t want to be sitting in damp trenches. Trench foot is one thing but trench anus is quite another matter😂
I reckon your old gran pappy might have been on the Eskimo diet mate! Sent him round the bend 🤪
Hey SPROG...ya can’t say ‘Eskimo’ these days. Inuit is the term. You’re starting to tread on thin ice.
Of course steptoe 🙄 how could I be so cruel? My mistake mate I wholeheartedly apologise to any eski.... Inuits I’ve offended
I would like to point out that no Inuits were harmed In the making of that sentence
E....you would make a good politician, that’s if you’re not already one. Do you know what they call a POSH Inuit’s house...
A supergloo ‼️‼️
Apologies for that ‘joke’ ‼️‼️
Which joke was that mate I must have missed it 🤣🤣
I left school with terrible grades and spent most of that time bunking off, I have the intellect of a camel 🐪, my vocabulary is on par with a 15 yr olds and I have absolutely zero knowledge about politics........ your right you know I’d make a brilliant politician
With you using the term ‘flobbles and flibbles’ I just thought that qualified you for a PhD 😂
I suggest you eat your fish and switch from Omega 3's to Magnesium and CoQ10. It worked for me...Gladstone001
Thank you for mentioning the CoQ10 enzyme. Must try.
Conclusions of a study: "CoenzymeQ10 as adjuvant treatment in patients with HF may attenuate the incidence of AF. The mechanisms of the effect perhaps have relation with the reduced levels of malondialdehyde."
!!UPDATE!! I came off my omega 3 supplements (600mg combined daily) after reading this article. It has been 5 days since I took any and in the last 5 days I have counted 2 very minor blips with my ectopic heart beats. Before I stopped taking them it would have been upwards of ten a day. Not saying it’s definitely the omega three but looking at the results..........
I find this to be true. If i take 640 mg of Omega 3's in pill form I have heart issues. I understand that the fish oil collects in the atrium which can set off Afib.
Surgery and AF
AF and covid 19
AF & Exercise - a new study Physical Activity and Atrial Fibrillation Risk: It's Complicated; and Sex Is Critical
Meta-analysis Identifies Supplements That Benefit Cardiovascular Health
AF and exercise really getting me down
