CONSIDERING getting off BISOPROLOL and going with METOPROLOL, as I'm sure the dreaded Biso is causing my total lack of energy. Am I right?

Would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this drug change over.

Have you had the experience?

Thank you in advance for your kind input.

[belindalore]

I took metoprolol and had horrible side effects. I think if you are a person like me who is sensitive to prescription meds as I am all you can do is try something else. Lots of people on here can't tolerate these meds and try alternative treatments. I do continue my anticoagulant even though I have side effects on it. It's hard. Hopefully you have a good Dr. Makes it harder if you don't. There's also a good website drugs.com that lists all the side effects and interactions between drugs. It lists all the side effects we don't get from Drs or pharmacies or whatever. You can read about metoprolol and what you're on now.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to belindalore]

I get on fine with Metoprolol. As with all beta blockers you have to make sure that they don't take your blood pressure down too low.

Jean

[Hidden in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Thank you Jean. Have you been on Bisoprolol at any time?

I also take a blood pressure medication called Telmisartan.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Hidden]

I took it very briefly in hospital, but it didn't do much for my AF.

[Hidden in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Thank you Jean.

[sleeksheep in reply to Hidden]

I have never been on Bisoprolol only Sotalol ( horrible) and now I only take Diltiazem.

I do take 80mg of Telmisartan but found unless I took the brand Teltartan other brands made me feel quite nauseous and feeling very flat.

Mizart was one I regarded as the worst and they even advertise new formulation on the box.

This is probably just relevant to me but I wouldnt discount Telmisartan as part of the problematic side effects .

[Hidden in reply to sleeksheep]

I never considered Telmisartan as I have been taking it for some time pre the AFIB.

Thank you for the input.

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

Thank you. Yes I am aware, however hearing it from fellow AFIB members goes a long way. My doctor is not very easy for discussions . Doctors push what they like best and what the sales rep has pushed. I know I used to sell pharmaceuticals.

[Bawdy in reply to belindalore]

I've given up my heart medications, now only doing anticoagulant, not ready to go off it as yet. Quality of life for me on the drugs wasn't good. Haven't seen the cardiologist as yet, but my decision.

[belindalore in reply to Bawdy]

I know how you feel. Drs don't listen anymore. Most just treat the symptoms not the whole person. There's so much more to consider. Are we lacking in any nutrients-vitamins, minerals, amino acids. Are our electrolytes in balance. Drs don't even give those any consideration. Things we learned in science or biology class in grade school and high school. I am still waiting for lab results from my primary to have all my nutrients tested after I had to beg. Probably didn't get the right tests. I'll have to wait and see as we had a tornado go through the area where my Drs office is located and they had damage and had to close for a few days so I got put to the bottom of the list for my results. And my cardio wasn't interested in doing any labs for nutrients. He just wants to do an ablation on me. Nope. I'm so skinny from losing more weight on the metoprolol I'd never survive any surgery. I was thin before I started the metoprolol and among all the side effects I suffered one was it makes you lose weight. We need cardio Drs who treat the whole person but they are few. My insurance doesn't allow me to shop for Drs so I'm limited to the ones in my plan. They are all crappy. And I don't have deep pockets to afford to Dr hop........ So frustrating. All about money not the patient!!!! Good luck to you.

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

You hit it on the head. I've been waiting almost a months for lab and Holter results.

There is no need for this . It drives up the anxiety and you have no idea if you should be on a treatment based on the results. But, no. Not to mention the caveman manners of many doctors.

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

So true. I am 68yrs old and I can remember when Drs actually cared. Looked at you not their computers. I'm so sick of it all I could scream. Well I actually did the other day in the shower when I was alone. Hang in there. This forum does help. We can at least vent.

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

You are so right.

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

Still on the Eliquis and for me side effects as bad as the metoprolol. Can't win. I'm just super sensitive to meds. Once again Drs don't care.

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

Me too, on Eliquis.

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

Any side effects?

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

Hard to tell, which drug is doing what. I take both at the same time and I started at the same time.

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

I started mine at the same time too. I looked up drug side effects on drugs.com and these two have a lot of the same side effects. 😠 You can also read what other people say about these drugs and most aren't too happy with this stuff either.

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

The thing that is tempting is some on Biso claim that Metoprolol was a miracle change for them. Meanwhile others say Meto has caused lots of issues similar to Biso. So take your pick !!!

Have a great day.

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

It's all in your ability to metabolize these meds. It's strange cause they are all basically the same medicine. I'm still on the Eliquis and it's killing me. I don't see cardio til this next Monday and honestly don't know if I'll make it. I've never felt so horrible in my life. I googled other anticoagulants on drugs.com and they are basically all the same as far as side effects. Some are even worse. And I don't think the Drs either know or don't bother to tell us cause they don't really care anymore. They know there will be a lot more people to mess up. I've just never been able to take prescription meds. A struggle to even finish a two week course of antibiotics. I feel I'm not going to make it. I also worry about the mitral valve regurgitation the damn cardio Dr didn't bother to tell me about..........

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

Sorry to hear you are feeling awful . I'm the same. I have a phone appointment with my cardio next Monday, and I'm glad I don't have to go there and I can't do it either.

Let's hope and pray we feel better than this !!

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

I pray every day and every day I feel worse. I have no faith I will get any help from the cardio Dr. He'll just say you have to stay on it or let's try another one or let's throw some more meds down your throat. I looked up Sayaysa on drugs.com and it only had two reviews. Both people had serious bleeding issues and one had to be flown to a special hospital and stay there for 8 days. Brain bleeds. She was okay I guess since it was found right away. But she was one of the lucky ones. I really want to try alternative treatments. Which I know my cardio isn't into. What the heck are people supposed to do who can't tolerate these meds? Just die I guess.

I live with my ex. I don't have much income. He has been good enough to to put a roof over my head. We still don't always get along. He has been taking same meds as me through the Veteran's clinic he goes to. Now that I'm in the same boat we get along a little better. He's 80 but before he was on these meds, eliquis and metoprolol, he was pretty active. Now he can't sleep at night. Sleeps a lot during the day. Gained weight which I'm sure is a lot of water. His lower legs edema. He says he feels like crap every day. He's not taken his medicine consistently because it makes him feel so bad. He cancelled his appt with the VA for a check up. I think he feels like he'll just live some quality of life for as long as he can. He goes to the river to fish almost every morning. Cuts the grass but has to rest a lot. Does what he wants just has to rest more. But his diet is horrible. He is one who is going to do whatever he wants. And his Drs say the same thing. You have to take it. We don't have anything else....

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

I have nothing more to say. Feeling like this is terrible !

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

Yes. It is.

[Hidden in reply to Bawdy]

With this Covid, one can't even see the doctors. My phone appointment never happened. They now tell me it actually is the 31 of August not the 24th like they had told me.

[Padayn01]

I was on Biso for 6 months and had horrible side effects, than went onto Metrprole which is much better for me

[Hidden in reply to Padayn01]

Thank you that is what I want to hear as I've been on it and it totally drains me of energy.

To be honest I really can't tell if it is the problem as I take other new meds.

[Hidden in reply to Padayn01]

If I may ask, how did it improve for you? The tired out feeling? The cement legs?

[Padayn01 in reply to Hidden]

It was just the side effects were a lot ok in metraprole actually I didn’t feel any side effects really no tiredness or anything but I eat propeley so not sure if that had helped

[Padayn01 in reply to Hidden]

Only downside to metraprole it don’t last 24 hrs unless you take it a couple times a day

[Hidden in reply to Padayn01]

Thank you. That is a good point.

[Johnnycyborg]

I’ve been on Bisoprolol amongst the cocktail for heart failure for 19 years and it’s done a great job for me, I guess it’s all down to suitability for the individual

[Hidden in reply to Johnnycyborg]

These drugs work differently for everyone. Thank you for your kind input.

[PlanetaryKim]

On each of my brief excursions with metoprolol, it has left me quite fatigued, short of breath, and psychologically depressed (due to its dopamine suppression). Yet some people use it long-term and do not seem to have these problems. Good luck to you!

[Hidden in reply to PlanetaryKim]

Thank you for your kind input. These drugs work differently for everyone. It is hard to switch back and forth if the doctors doesn't agree with you.

[PlanetaryKim in reply to Hidden]

That is very true. Doctor needs to be on board with the plan. I hope you are able to give metoprolol at try and that it improves things for you.

[Hidden in reply to PlanetaryKim]

They all seem to have side effects. Yet some claim that the change over was worth it.

I hope my "deaf" to requests cardiologist will hear me and back me up.

Sad one has to say that as most of these doctors are poor listeners even when one is requesting the change after due diligence . Many doctors takes requests or demand as a challenge to their profession instead of working with the patient. My doctor is one of these.

[PlanetaryKim in reply to Hidden]

That does make it all the harder, when they don't listen and then respond to a patient suggestion as a challenge to their competence. How insecure some of them are. . I have not found a satisfactory cardiologist. I have tried 2.

[Hidden in reply to PlanetaryKim]

In the Greater Toronto area it seems we have numerous specialists from a a certain part of the world where they don't really accept you questioning their ideas.

[PlanetaryKim in reply to Hidden]

I honestly think this might be a feature of all cardiologists where afib is concerned. The prevailing attitude just seems to be: "Take your pills and go away. AF, is a nuisance but not life-threatening..."

I have never had a harder time communicating with a doctor than with the 2 cardiologists I have now tried here in BC. They are really unwilling to discuss anything. So I am giving up on that route and am now self-treating to best of my ability. And that is honestly going pretty well for me. But everyone is different. Not advising others to do what I am doing (although many are also self-treating with diet, lifestyle changes, supplements, etc.).

[Hidden in reply to PlanetaryKim]

Three times here I wrote to you a multi paragraph response telling you that I studied nutrition, anatomy, vitamin therapy and I have a degree in herbal medicine. I also pointed out that I worked for a pharmaceutical corp before the natural healing studies. I feel like tossing the blood thinner and other drugs that my doc. insist upon and going natural. But then you lose their hospital connections to things like CT scans etc.

I'm stopping here as I suspect I may be triggering something that wipes my messages to you to blanks. Conspiracy ? I don't know but how do you explain 3 messages

wiped clean at about the same point !!!

[PlanetaryKim in reply to Hidden]

That is very strange that your previous message disappeared - 3x! I don't understand these things.

[Hidden in reply to PlanetaryKim]

These forums are scanned by doctors and pharmaceutical companies along with the people running them. Many forums get lots of secret funding from the Pharma companies so nothing surprises me.

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

I would think that if Drs really cared and are reading these posts, they would be ashamed at what they are doing to their patients. But guess not. I often wonder if they would put their own mothers, fathers, children or whatever loved one they have, on these meds knowing how sick they make us. I bet some of them would look for some alternative for their loved ones.

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

They really don't care much. We are just numbers. If they got really involved they would see only 6 patients a day instead of the 30-50 they see.

You can bet many of them are on Hydroxychloroquine for Covid.

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

You betcha! Kinda like the politicians. They're going to save themselves first if something a nuke comes our way. They have underground bunkers big enough for them and their families. I was amazed they actually showed that on TV a few years ago.

[belindalore in reply to PlanetaryKim]

Are you concerned about needing medical help at any point? I know a couple people have posted on here what supplements they use. One said they'd been doing supplements for the last 3 yrs and doing fine but don't know if it was backed by a Dr or not. I keep thinking about the joke you sent me. What's the difference between a Dr and God. God never said he's a Dr. Problem is it starts at the Dr to the insurance companies to big pharmas and last all the big corporations who run everything. What they call Wall Street here in the USA. All those big companies want to see big profits. All at the expense of the patients.....

[PlanetaryKim in reply to belindalore]

My feeling is that if at some point in future I need medical help with this (Afib), I will get it at that time. I have seen 2 cardiologists at this point and come to the conclusion that the cardiologist I am looking for does not exist. Since I am not interested in taking their drugs or getting an ablation at this time, and since that is absolutely all any of them will offer, I don't see any way a cardiologist helps me at this point.

I have so far this month converted myself three times with my "rescue" cocktail of: low-sodium V8 + 400 mg magnesium + 2 cups of water. (On one of these conversions I also added Vitamin C and antihistamine, which I believe are useful for halting arrhythmia.)

I am of the belief that, with time, I will be able to reduce the frequency of episodes and eventually eliminate them altogether. We shall see!

[belindalore in reply to PlanetaryKim]

I hope you can accomplish getting rid of Afib. Do you not use anything for a blood thinner? Some use Vitamin E that has 4 tocopherols and 4 of some other toco. One guy on here uses nattokinase, tumeric and vitamin E. For rhythm I've seen some taking magnesium. Different forms. Glycinate, taurate, citrate or malate. Seems the glycinate is the one used most. Dr Wolfson has one with 5 different ones in it. Oxide seems to be the worst as it doesn't absorb well. Seen some people using taurine and l-arginine for rhythm and palpitations. Dr Wolfson has a product called Flow that is nattokinase for an anticoagulant. If I don't get anywhere with any other cardio drs I may try his products. I figure either their meds are going to get me or the covid is. 😛

Stay safe up there. The USA is either burning up or flooding or now the hurricanes are coming. I hate for it to happen to others but hope they leave Florida alone. Really bad in Louisiana. Feel so bad for those who lost everything especially with this evil virus. Makes one wonder if we are coming to the end.

[PlanetaryKim in reply to belindalore]

I actually am not using anything at the moment as a natural blood-thinner/anti-coagulant. Although there are many options for that - natto, nattokinase, vitamin e, fish oil, curcumin, even golden paste made from turmeric will have that affect. Many other possibility too for anti-coagulation.

However, anti-coagulation is a double-edged sword. There is a school of thought, and some literature/studies to support it, that suggest that an otherwise healthy person with afib but NO cardiovascular comorbidities (in other words "lone" atrial fibrillation) has no more stroke risk than average member of population who does not have AF or CV cormorbidities.

Also, I score 2 on CHA₂DS₂-VASc. In US, that means (for women) that anti-coagulant is recommended. But in Europe, it is only to be "considered" at that point. It isn't recommended until women score 3. So even the world's leading cardiologists don't agree.

And of course, the risk with taking an anti-coagulant (whether pharmaceutical or natural) is brain bleed. A major brain bleed (hemorrhagic stroke), may be very unlikely (although would be devastating if not fatal if it happens). However the bigger problem is that daily use of anti-coagulants, over time, results in countless little micro-bleeds in brain, visible on MRI. These are of no interest to the medical establishment because they aren't fatal. But the effect over time on the patient could be reduced cognitive capacity, memory problems, ability to drive - all the things attributed to "old age", when really, unnecessary self-inflicted micro-bleeds in brain could be the cause of it.

I am not saying anyone should stop their anti-coagulant - whether pharmaceutical or natural anti-coagulant. I am just saying there are risks either way. And doctors do not utter a word about the risk of micro-bleeds in brain from long term use of anti-coagulants (with any cough, sneeze, nose blow). So we need to each become our own experts and weigh these risks ourselves, and decide whether we in fact even need anti-coagulant. I think it is quite possible that some affibers scoring very low on CHA₂DS₂-VASc, and with no CV comorbities, do not actually need OAC. My 2 cents. But do your own research - always.

[Hidden in reply to PlanetaryKim]

Yes I know. I was always on 400-800 Vitamin E, Fish Oil, Turmeric, Garlic, Ginger in the past. But no longer. We take our chances any which way we go. Our lives are in God's hands.

[PlanetaryKim in reply to Hidden]

For sure. I was replying to Belindadore, btw. She asked if I was taking blood thinner. So my answer was to her. But of course anyone can read it.

[belindalore in reply to PlanetaryKim]

Amazing how different counties view the same thing. I worry all the time about a brain bleed. I don't know if natural supplements are any better in that regard. If I didn't have the mitral valve regurgitation I would probably drop the Eliquis. I'm a Chad 2 so here in the USA it's anticoagulant automatically. And as we know Drs don't tell us everything. You might do just as well to keep treating yourself. Take care.

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

We take our chances with anything we do.

[belindalore in reply to Hidden]

Yes so true. But Drs are doing the same thing with us. We are a game of chance to them. They leave us to worry while they go home and think about the next round of golf......

You take care of yourself. May God watch over all of u

[Hidden in reply to belindalore]

We are in God's hands.

[Hidden in reply to PlanetaryKim]

I stopped the low sodium V8 as my potassium is usually high.

One month, I still don't have my blood work results and holter monitor.

I wonder if this is how they do it in Pakistan where he comes from.

[PlanetaryKim in reply to Hidden]

That does seem like a very long time to wait for blood work results.

[Hidden in reply to PlanetaryKim]

Like you said, these doctors leave much to be desired. If you or I go through this nonsense with these "gods" imagine what the average Joe that has language problems goes through. I've called on them when in pharmaceutical sales and in sales management positions rewarding them with gifts worth $1,000's . Yet they wouldn't give me the time unless I handed over my health card to bill the province.

[Waverly1]

My husband takes 25 mg a day of metoprolol. 75 mg kinda wiped him out when he tried that once. He takes Metoprolol Succinate ER, which is extended release, so it can be taken once a day. The dosage can make the difference.

[Geonome]

I tried Metoprolol, couldn't tolerate the 25 mg twice daily dose. Low pulse, low blood pressure, exhaustion, short of breath, etc. Gradually went down to 6 mg twice/day. Heart rate still in the 50's. So changed to calcium channel blockers - tried Verapamil, then Diltiazem, too many side effects. Now on 0.0625 mg digoxin, which I can tolerate just barely. I would discontinue these types of drugs, but need one to go with the daily Flecainide.

[Hidden in reply to Geonome]

I guess no easy answers. Thanks.

[Sfhmgusa]

I have just recently migrated from bisoprolol to a slow release calcium channel blocker Diltiazem ( to go with the 50mg flecainide I take twice a day.

I don’t want to be too optimistic for you but I feel renewed having stopped the biso

The reason I knew things were not right is I had a cardioinversion and for a week it worked so had nsr 60 bpm, BP of120/80 and blood oxygen of 98% ie no heart Problems but I felt utterly drained of energy and had a constant bloated low grade stomach ache and felt a “ black dog” depression. My cardio ( and this site) indicated that bisoprolol might be the cause so over 3 days I titration off taking it

During and after stopping was a week of really horrible withdrawal symptoms including real shortness of breath and Awful sleep but now I have energy to walk miles, I shed nearly 8 lbs in 7 days as I de bloated and mentally I have had a new lease of optimism.

It must be remembered that bisoprolol is popular because for most people it works really well with few/ no side effects but for me, stopping it was/ is a blessing

Steve

[Hidden in reply to Sfhmgusa]

Thank you Steve. Good information.

[Staffsgirl]

Was on Bisoprolol for around 18 months. Had never liked taking it, and my GP first agreed to halving the dose. Once I came off it (all in one go, on GP advice) I realised what it had been doing to me.

I was a new woman. I’d had fatigue and breathlessness, but far, far worse, the most excruciating limb pains imaginable. They stopped when I came off the drug. Doctor was happy for me not to substitute it with another...had monitored by BP before and after coming off.

It was an immense relief.

[Hidden in reply to Staffsgirl]

But what happens when they tell you , you must be on it for your own good ?

The others like Metopropolol are not much better or are they.

[Geonome in reply to Hidden]

There are a lot of other choices to replace Bisoprolol. Medication for AF is about quality of life, not a cure. So if a medication makes you feel sick, how can that be "for your own good"?

[Hidden in reply to Geonome]

You are so right. Both of my cardiologists take it as an offense if you reject their choices. This Covid has really affected things as it's hard getting appointments with your regular doctor never mind finding a new one.

[Geonome in reply to Hidden]

Don't give up. I took me at least a year to find something that works for me.

[Hidden in reply to Geonome]

So, may I ask what worked and what didn't work? Thanks

[Geonome in reply to Hidden]

Started with metoprolol 25 mg for rate control; down to 12.5 mg, down to 6 mg, gave up on it as was still having too many side effects; -low BP, low heart rate, exhaustion, etc., then switched to calcium channel blockers - verapamil 40 mg-horrible headaches, then diltiazem 120 mg daily, decreased to 60 mg daily, made me lose my hair, plus headaches. Switched to digoxin, 0.125 mg daily, more headaches, decreased to 0.0625 daily. Tolerable. I need this type of drug for my ventricular functioning (as I understand it), because I like to take flecainide, which prevents AF. I have reduced the flecainide to 25 mg twice/day. This combination seems to work. I have lots of energy, and can even sleep on my left side for short periods. (flecainide 25 mg twice/day, and digoxin 0.0625 mg daily). And no AF for 4 months now. Yay!!

[Hidden in reply to Geonome]

Happy for you. Thanks for sharing.

[Staffsgirl]

Well my GP was happy for me to stop it, given that my BP remained stable. I also take an anticoagulant for AF. I have now been off Biso for around 9months. If the GP advised that I still needed a beta blocker, I would follow the advice and perhaps try another. I’ve been fortunate. I wish you good luck.

[Hidden in reply to Staffsgirl]

Thank you and I wish you well.

[WhitstableWanderer]

I am weaning myself off a daily 10mg dose of Bisoprolol, having come to the conclusion that it was making me tired, gave me muscle pains, was affecting my memory etc after three years continuous use. Went immediately to 5mg a few months ago, now halving the pills to 2.5 each day. I will be off completely next month. Apart from two nights of disturbed sleep, I haven't suffered any withdrawal effects so far. But, and crucially, my blood pressure and heart rate have not increased in any significant way. I am now able to walk for longer and feel stronger.

Obviously, we are all different and anyone considering doing this should ask their doctor. I've no experience of Metropol.

[Hidden in reply to WhitstableWanderer]

Thank you. The funny thing is these doctors hardly mention anything about these side effects. You are left on your own to find out.

Today I can hardly do anything i'm so exhausted.

[ebancroft2]

Bisoprolol gave me such bad side effects. I was lethargic all the time, and it gave me bad depressive episodes. I would avoid it if that’s possible.

[Hidden in reply to ebancroft2]

Did you go on something else? Thanks

[Anxiousarabella]

I was on Metoprolol for 5 years. It left me with no energy and feeling tired all the time. In the end my heart rate would go down to 39 and I would get chest pain so I weaned myself off them as when I saw dr - he recommended larger dose and I just though no way.

[Hidden in reply to Anxiousarabella]

Sounds like all these beta blockers cause problems. One wonder if changing is even worth the effort.

Thanks

[KMRobbo]

Yes quite possibly. I could not tolerate even 1.25Mg