Digestion related Afib

[Davidv45runner]

What are your experiences related to possible digestion episodes of Afib ?

I don’t think this is a trigger for me but this is what happens:-

My Afib always occurs at night just before / around sleep time .

Probably because I am now much more aware , it feels like Afib may be coming in when the stomach is just bubbling away or perhaps digesting ..

I’m lying down in bed very relaxed and not thinking about Afib , reading news etc on phone , then it’s like “ what was that- is it starting again ....” but it doesn’t come on and perhaps it might just be bubbling in the stomach ... Though I can feel my heart a little bit more maybe ...

So , I think it’s ( digestion ) likely not a trigger for me , but wondered if this was a trigger for others , and if they think so , what specifically / time after eating it occurs / foods etc etc....

[BobD Volunteer]

Use the search facility on Vagal AF which will show lots on this subject .

[Singwell in reply to BobD]

BobD is this in pinned posts? Please point me towards as I'm 99% sure this is my type.

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Singwell]

No use search facility in Healthunlocked.

[Singwell in reply to BobD]

Thanks.

[Hidden]

Not your digestion per se, rather food you have eaten at your evening meal, especially if you ate late - ish which is / has caused some aggravation of the vagal nerve. Take BobD's advice or Google Vagus or Vagal nerve, and also Google for a schematic diagram of where the Vagal Nerve is in the body. It may be that your diet comprises some ingredients etc. which upsets the VN.

This nerve acts like an information superhighway between brain and many organs, particularly the heart and digestive system.

John

[Singwell in reply to Hidden]

I like how you put this! Information superhighway: heart, rest and digest and also the larynx and other parts of our speaking mechanism.

[meadfoot]

I agree with Bobd and Carneuny. I have similar issues happen to me very often.

[heartmatters1]

Definitely happened to me on Sunday evening. Felt great when I went to bed (albeit a little reflux indigestion going on) then wham - lying there reading & heart started doing somersaults. Worse AF for 6 months. Took 4 hours with PIP settle it down 😖. So weird that it can happen so intermittently without doing anything differently, except like us all, feeling anxious with what’s going on! Such a rogue condition.

Best wishes for a healthy & safe Easter 🐣

Ally

[Davidv45runner in reply to heartmatters1]

Do you only use PIP ?

Just in my case I find that the randomness of the episodes are not so random ...

So at the start of the year episodes began occurring within every 7 after I think being more like 10+.... and longer gaps before that .

Episodes then started occurring approx 7,7,3,7,5,4 ,3,5,4 etc ...

So in my case and possibly others ( I understand there are many different forms of Afib ) if this is just an increasing random event ,then why has it never happened on consecutive nights ?

There appears to be a pattern which closes in over time to ( Afib begatting Afib) ...

It’s like something is building up / or reducing - then you have an episode - then it’s cleared - then it needs to build up / reduce again before the next episode takes place - hence never on consecutive nights .

I would say had I not started on Flecainide , i would have eventually reached the point where it occurred every night / or i couldn’t self revert back to sinus .... and ultimately a persistent state .

Yes best wishes to yourself also .

We all can’t do very much at the moment so I’m looking forward to a giant chocolate egg of which I will devour all at once .

( whilst telling my daughter too much sugar is bad ) ....

🐣🐣🐣🐣🐣

[heartmatters1]

Yes, I take Flecainide as PIP only, as my episodes are (at present) every few months or so. I know anxiety/stress/tiredness/diet are the main triggers for me & most of us AF’ers, but of course it can become persistent over time. When QOL becomes severely affected, then maybe that is the time to consider ablation (for me anyway).

Enjoy that giant chocolate egg! 😋

[Singwell]

Hi David, I've only had three known episodes in my life but I do think all of them are digestive related. My 2nd one for example - exactly as you describe - sitting up in bed watching a video and at 11.30 it kicks off. In my 3rd episode I felt I'll after eating in the afternoon and it kicked off in the early hours of the next morning. I think it takes about 27 hours for food to transit though from mouth to toilet so to speak! So I personally am definitely looking into food triggers. Eat early, eat light etc. Eat smaller meals and notice if your digestion is noisy and active when you go to rest and if you have any acid reflux. Read Michael Moseley's Clever Gut. It's really informative. If you don't know signs of acid reflux (it can be silent or the usual heartburn type) let me know and I'll post some useful leaflet links.

[Singwell]

I can also add that for 5 years prior to diagnosis I had intermittent 'funny turns' around food. The pattern was always - heat (ambience), rich food and alcohol. I would get hot, feel faint and nauseous and have to lie down or go outside and walk around in the cold. Then it would pass. I think those were mini episodes but I didn't know it.

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Singwell]

I had exactly that situation for nearly ten years usualy involving alcohol even in minute quanties. I had one event after one bite of aa profitter roll into which somebody had dripped brandy. My ever sympathetic doctor just commented how much money I would save not drinking!

It was a house move and change of doctor in 2004 which eventaully had my diagnosis , and only because said doctor's mother had AF and doctor understood about it. One hopse times have changed?

[CDreamer]

You may be interested in this review:- Atrial fibrillation and gastroesophageal reflux disease: the cardiogastric interaction

academic.oup.com/europace/a...

There is now a lot more interest and research into the connection between digestion and arrythmias. Even my GP asked me recently if I thought there was a connection. You don’t always know if you have GERD by the way as it doesn’t always present as acid reflux.

As I went through a period of every time I ate - I had an AF episode I absolutely know there is a connection - but I also now know that there is a lot you can do by changing your behaviours to avoid such incidents - ie: rest and digest.

Never eat on the go. Take time over meals and make them an occasion when you sit and socialise and relax. Avoid eating anything when you feel stressed or need to be doing something else - you are better not eating at those times as you won’t digest anything anyway.

The rules for good digestion are:-

Look - smell - anticipate (this gets the digestive juices going)

Chew - a LOT

Take your time and don’t rush up straight after a meal - sit at table for at least 30 mins.

Eat smaller meals and avoid any foods that you find difficult to digest - bread for me.

[Singwell in reply to CDreamer]

Thanks for this. I'm a voice researcher and believe there are important links between acid reflux, including the silent type as you say (LPR) and AF. I even found a couple of studies on it. One compounding element though is the amount of people on PPIs because of reflux. I am not and never have been but we really need to look into this. Seriously considering doing a research presentation on it for one of the bug voice conferences in 2021. Singers, voice clinicians and actors are all interested in acid reflux because it impacts negatively on the voice. I have read this one btw - thanks!

[Goldfish7]

strangely, although currently PAF free since 2nd ablation I'v e been suffering with a lot of atrial and ventricular ectopic 'runs', tachycardias, etc. and last night either due to overexerting myself lifting/holding something heavy earlier in the day or falling off the 'diet' wagon with a cream egg and too many packets of cheesy watsits (both full of additives) while watching films - I was up for most of the night with my stomach bloated and unhappy and my heart playing very boomy and ectopicy tricks. Knackered this morning. So I'm guessing the eating thing is a trigger for me. Probably Vagal

[Singwell in reply to Goldfish7]

I second looking into hiatus hernia. I'm pretty sure I have one. Check out the British Hernia Society. You'll see that a bad attack from your HH mimics many symptoms of an impending heart attack. Worth thinking about once the pandemic is over

[Limoncello in reply to Goldfish7]

Sounds like my experience with food and AFib. I had potatoes, sweet potatoes and gluten-free stuffing last night with roast guinea-fowl. Felt virtuous because I didn’t have a pud, unlike the other two in the family. Haha! Still woke gasping in the night, feel terrible this morning with two rushes to the loo and a stomach that makes me look pregnant and feels as though a battle is going on inside it. Will I never learn?

[Goldfish7 in reply to Limoncello]

I feel your pain! and your 'wind' !!! More seriously though home made sauerkraut (tastes completely different to shop bought pasteurised stuff) and Kefir (I also stick in tumeric when its brewed) seem to work well for me if used on a daily basis - took a few months to make a noticeable change but I now notice if I've slipped up and not had it for too long. Dr Michael Mosleys 'Healthy Gut Diet' (or something like that is informative, interesting and useful. Kefir - add bought grains to milk and leave 24hrs is fast and easy to produce. Saurkraut takes longer but only needs a glass container air permeable cover, cabbage and sea salt (a large sharp knife is very helpful for the shredding) - loads of stuff on YouTube re making it.

Hope your feeling better and are beginning to deflate - I think I'm half way there today and heart is less 'stroppy'!!

[Limoncello in reply to Goldfish7]

Thanks goldfish, I might give those a cautious try. Anything fermented tends to create havoc in me, so I've always held off. I do sprinkle turmeric on my food every day. I was given a diet by a nutritionist years ago that suits my guts, stuck to it for several years, was ok for several more years after being less strict, but relapsed because it is soooo boring! Now I'm paying the price for greed! You'd think developing AFib would be enough to motivate anyone but my self-discipline is not what it was - nor is anything else! I also think my stomach is more reactive since being on Bisoprolol, which I hate for various reasons. So time to find that self-discipline again!

Glad you're feeling better. Onwards and upwards!

[Goldfish7 in reply to Limoncello]

Thanks Limoncello - hope you get sorted. I do misbehave with spicy foods etc. which is why I have to do the kefir and sauerkraut thing I reckon to balance things out!! If you do try the kefir and sauerkraut - do start of slowly ie. small portions at first - my sister tried it and as it was working well for her went a bit mad and drank the sauerkraut 'juice' ending up stuck on the toilet for a couple of hours!!

[Limoncello in reply to Goldfish7]

Thanks for the tip! I know that overdoing it feeling, even of the good stuff!

[Dangerousdriver]

David, I know exactly what you mean. Often I sit there after eating or even walking and feel like my heart is jumping. Sometimes it is ectopics, SVT or even a-fib, then other times it’s my hiatus hernia which can cause that bubbling feeling.

Have you been checked for hiatus hernia?

[Davidv45runner in reply to Dangerousdriver]

No ,but thanks for your post , another thing to look into .

So many tips and helpful folks on here , not sure where to start !

I need to make a list of these tips so I can gradually research and “ digest “ the info .

Thanks all .

[Dangerousdriver in reply to Davidv45runner]

No problem, the good thing here is that we all have a common problem although it affects each of us differently. This is by far one of the best forums around in terms of the people that help to make it what it is.

I think the important thing to do is not panic with regards to reading information or speaking with others. Being blunt you are more likely to be hit by a bus than dying from a-fib or SVT.

The search function on here is pretty good and there are plenty of sticky posts that will help you.

Never feel stupid for asking questions on here.

Good luck and Happy Easter.