AF and covid 19

[aardy]

AF and covid 19. Is AF considered an underlying health issue that puts you in the high risk bracket for covid 19?

[Hidden]

Just scroll down the previous posts aardy, there is so much information and I don’t want to add to all the hype by repeating what has already been said many times......

[CDreamer]

The AA put out an email to all members:-

Coronavirus News

We have consulted with our Medical Advisory Team and we are aware that people with AF and other arrhythmias are understandably concerned about Coronavirus (COVID 19).

Having AF or any arrhythmia does not put you at an increased risk of contracting Coronavirus. However, if you do contract the disease and have cardiovascular issues or other chronic health issues like diabetes or a lung condition, the symptoms may affect you more and may be more dangerous.

[Dodie117 in reply to CDreamer]

Doesn’t really answer the question - does AF by itself place us in the vulnerable category.

I think most of us know it does not increase our chances of getting it but if we do get it and have no other underlying issues are we still in the “vulnerable “ category.

[Peterng in reply to Dodie117]

Simple answer basically is NO...

This is a Respiratory Virus...and not Cardiovascular...

[CDreamer in reply to Dodie117]

I think it is really clear. AF is not a CV issue and the current thinking by the medical committee is that Lone AF does not put you in the vulnerable category but any co-morbidity or age will.

If you join the AA you can sign up for the emails - new one today - and be kept informed.

[Dodie117 in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you

[Lilypocket in reply to CDreamer]

That makes sense. I believe we are not at higher risk but perhaps our medication could make things worse i.e. Beta blockers . This drug is not to be taken by people with asthma etc. If an Afibber catches this ( for the most part mild) disease and it affects the lungs obviously beta blockers will have to be stopped which could pose problems for those that need them. So there could an indirect risk perhaps?

[Auriculaire in reply to Lilypocket]

Often the ACE inhibitors are used if people just cannot tolerate beta blockers but these have definitely been warned against by scientists as exacerbating covid 19. Coming off beta blockers suddenly can be dangerous.

[tunybgur in reply to Auriculaire]

I have written to several of my cardio health experts about the ACE inhibitor issue and have not received one reply yet!

Tried to contact my GP about changing my prescription (currently on 7.5mg Ramipril) but can't get past the reception police!

[Shcldavies in reply to CDreamer]

I think most understand that AF is not a CV disease and that AF is a CV condition. Now how do we take a CV issue? I would interpret an issue as anything including disease and condition, in fact any CV problem. However I would like to believe that you are right.

My understanding is that a respiratory issues can make the heart work harder to maintain oxygenated blood, if the heart does not get sufficient oxygenated blood it tries to work harder still. This extra strain on the heart can trigger AF (or any arrhythmia), further limiting the hearts ability, potentially degenerating out of control.

Now a little knowledge can be a bad thing, hopefully my little knowledge has lead me down the wrong thought process and I would appreciate if you could explain your clarity of thought on this issue, especially as all your posts on this site are so informed and rational.

[CDreamer in reply to Shcldavies]

I am going by what the Arrythmia Alliance medical committee advised - as per their email the content of which I posted a few days ago.

AF is an electrical dysfunction of the heart - sometimes caused by CV disease. Of course no one can be certain how we will be affected & everyone will respond differently anyway.

No certainties with anything.

[Shcldavies in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you, I totally agree there are no certainties and the medical profession are trying their best to understand the full implications of coronavirus.

I believe the advise on this site can and is being misinterpreted as it talks about CV issues (not CV disease or CV conditions). Some like yourself believe CV issues do not include AF, others like myself are unsure and believe they do include AF. This unclarity should be easily resolved by the authors confirming one way or the other. Unfortunately the authors comment was that the words used were taken from another source, consequently I am still not sure a definitive answer to the basic question has been provided. Perhaps no one knows?

To be on the safe side I will err on the side of caution and believe that AF or any arrhythmia sufferers may be included in the vulnerable group. Best to be pleasantly surprised (if I am wrong) than finding out too late (if I am right).

[CDreamer in reply to Shcldavies]

My experience is that AF can make you feel very vulnerable, even if AF doesn’t fit into the category of medically defined ‘vulnerable’ group.

Some time ago (about 7 years) we had a debate on the definition of disease and condition - the Wikipedia definition:-

A disease is a particular abnormal condition that negatively affects the structure or function of all or part of an organism,

My definition is from the literal root of the word dis (opposite of absence of) ease (the state of being comfortable).

Condition - a state of being or a defective state of health

I would therefore use disease and condition interchangeably. I cannot find any medical definition of either word although some people do seem to define between the two.

CV = cardiovascular dysfunction - a dysfunction of the vessels of the cardio system

Arrythmia or dysrythmia = An arrhythmia is a problem with the rate or rhythm of the heartbeat.

These are not matters of belief- although some arrythmias seem to be caused by cardiovascular disease - but of a consensus of agreed definitions.

Sorry if I being pedantic but I do think it matters that we use words accurately to improve communications and avoid misinterpretation.

The source was the AA = Arrythmia Alliance Medical Committee - it’s on their website and I receive their emails.

I think this virus has had the affect of greatly unnerving people and I would never criticise anyone for being precautionary. Not enough is known about the affects, both short term and longer term this virus will have but it is here and we will need to cope with it.

I am told by my microbiologist stepson that vaccines are already being trialled in US & Europe and I gleaned from the PM Daily news bulletin yesterday that some people may already have immunity as researchers think they may have identified some antibodies which destroy the virus so hope on the horizon. Just not sure how far away it is.

Hope you stay well.

[Shcldavies in reply to CDreamer]

Encouraging news fingers crossed. Thank you for the definition of the words we use and how these words get understood in our heads, and I can understand why people use words interchangeably which may confuse others (politicians are very good at it).

My understanding is that C-19 can affect the sympathetic nervous system, which can initiate palpitations (even in those than have never experienced them before) which can set off AF (note the many "can's", no certainties). What is unclear is when your lungs are not working as effectively as they should to oxygenate your blood, then you have AF when your heart does not work as effectively pumping the blood, I think the conditions are right for this to cause a more serious condition - but I don't know.

[CDreamer in reply to Shcldavies]

Any infection can, and certainly in my case does, set off arrythmias if you already have them and I can quite see they may induce them.

I also have other conditions including an autoimmune condition which can compromise my breathing for which I take immune suppressants and have had dysautomia. From all of the reading and research I have done, none of these conditions put me into the ‘Highly Vulnerable’ but do put me at ‘higher risk’ - but I’m there anyway as any virus has the same affect so maybe I have just got blasé?

In the past - I’ve had 2 bad bouts of pneumonia - whenever I start to struggle to breath I have been told to go straight to my CPAP and I have to say it has always worked and often then stops the arrythmias. I’m currently trying to find out if this would be advisable with this virus but I don’t thing anyone really knows.

If you want to strengthen your autonomic system and your immune system there are several things I do which really help:-

Daily Breathing Exercising to ensure you breath deep into your lungs and exercise your intercostal muscles I was advised to use a power breather - bit like pulling weights for you lungs - by physiotherapist.

Bathe in cool/cold water - I stand under shower and switch from warm to cool - 10 seconds of warm - 20 seconds of cool/cold. Chilling is thought to be an excellent way of strengthening the vagal response but also of improving your immune response - limited studies do seem to indicate this does help however you do need to have sustained exposure over time - ie do it daily. Cold water immersion also helps mood, improves circulation, is much better than hot water for your hair and skin and has been shown to help you lose weight. If that’s a step too far for you then just immerse your hand/arm to the elbow.

One of the reasons elite athletes dive into an ice bath after exercising hard is to keep the oxygen in the muscles which helps reduce the amount of lactic acid building. Keeping our oxygen levels up is really important for our whole body but especially our heart muscle and regular daily exercising will help strengthen that muscle - even 30 seconds walking on the spot will raise your HR, in a controlled way of course, do for at least a few minutes everyday to improve body oxygenation. I am exercise intolerant - my muscles stop working very quickly so I do 30 secs exercise, rest for 90 seconds, repeat 5 times. Do that 2 or 3 times a day when I am unable to go our for a brisk walk.

I’ve been at this a long time now and learned a little about what does and doesn’t help and those 3 things - how you breath, cold water and exercise are the things that I believe have helped keep me safe and out of hospital and improved my wellbeing generally.

Hope some of that helps. These are worrying times for us all and we must help and support each other and avoid anxiety so I would add that planning for the day and ending the day with some sense of achievement is an excellent strategy. Today I plan to make the baby quilt for the 1st Greatgrandchild - due any time so I need to get on and finish it!.

[Shcldavies in reply to CDreamer]

Thats really interesting, I did not know these things improved your immune response. I was aware of the breathing and it has helped me too (the 8-4-7 technique worked well for me - thankfully not needed to try it since the ablation a year ago), though it seldom worked when I had Aflutter. I always thought oxygen had something to do with it but could not understand what, perhaps its the lactic acid?

When I first had SVT 24 years ago it was more prevalent following a period of inactivity, then 6 years ago (when it occasionally started to morph into Aflutter) it became more prevalent after high activity - not worked this out yet but from what you said it has given me some leads to explore.

Think I will give the cold water treatment a miss for a while and try it in the summer months.

I cannot explain why but your absolutely right regarding daily activity, I retired 4 years ago as my condition was affecting my work. Following a long recovery from my ablation in Feb 19 I started work again (this time Pt Time) in November and after the first week or so getting used to the routine I started to feel much better than I had done for 20 years, so far so good.

Happy quilting, after a long wait I now have 4 grandchildren who are growing up far too quickly and they really do keep you fit (and skint) as your about to find out!

[Dodie117]

Thank you. HappyJo. That was also my thinking but I wasn’t sure.

[Dodie117]

Yes, I’d seen this -just wasn’t sure if AF was considered a cardiovascular disease.

[MartinoH]

I’ve checked with my consultant at Papworth Heart and Lung Hospital. Lone AF is not considered a risk.

[Hidden in reply to MartinoH]

I have just been sent a list of those at risk by my daughter. Top of the list those on “blood thinners”.

[aardy in reply to Hidden]

Rubbish taking blood thinners alone do not make you at high risk

[checkmypulse]

After my 1st ablation a 'virus' started off AF again. For a year or so afterwards I was troubled by occasional 'runs' of ectopics which could last 2 or 3 days with symptoms similar to AF although milder. EP would always ask or suggest if I had had a virus at the time. Although it's possible I would have needed a 'top up' ablation anyway, as we are advised that sometimes this is required, as a result I am always conscious and concerned about flu like symptoms.