Hi, I have been suffering from gerd since the late 90s and it has only been recently that I have discovered there could be a connection between gerd and Afib. Apparently the oaesphagus is very close to the left atrium and can irritate it when inflamed. Dr Sanjay the York cardiologist is happy to say there is a link but according to some doctors there isn’t. I have lone Afib and I feel if I can get my acid reflux under control I may have less Afib episodes. Is there anyone that has actually succeeded in doing that and how did you get it under control? Many thanks !
Acid reflux link: Hi, I have been... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Acid reflux link
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stoneyrosed
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BobDVolunteer
The vagus nerve which links brain and other major organs such as heart and stomach is the key here. Most up to date doctors agree that the vagus nerve is important and can affect both so yes of course is the answer. You need to investigate ways to calm the vagus nerve . Sadly the first reaction of most doctors is to put patents on PPIs but I think most people now agree that these are a really bad idea long term as they actually exacerbate the problem by ensuring the food is held in the stomach for longer and therefor more likely to reflux. Vicious circle I'm afraid and I don't have answers as I went cold turkey on PPIs about 20 years ago and refuse to take them ever since.
Take a look at this website:
prohealth.com/library/dr-my...
Also Google Dr. Sarah Myhill and GERD or GORD.
Thanks will study that when I finish work later today. Thank you 👍
I learned more from Dr Myhill about what happens with GERD and how to avoid it than any other source.
A tip I learned from a work colleague many years ago, sip hot water if you have symptoms, preferably with a slice of lemon in. May take a few cups but it will lessen the symptoms 9/10 times.
Hi Stoneyrosed
My EP when I last saw him said if I could sort out gastric problems- which included acid reflux at the time - then I would be well on the way with reducing AF episodes. Not cured of course but whenever I do get a (rare) episode it is usually accompanied by the reflux and gastric grumbling.
There is definitely a link! And I agree with Bob about keeping off the PPI’s if you can reduce the reflux through diet and nutritional means. Small meals, never eat late at night etc.
Liz
Yes, I got my GERD under control - stopped taking all ant-acids, changed my eating plan, drank more water, added in fermented foods every day, reduced by carb intake, eat smaller meals with more protein and fats (healthy ones such as avocado, nuts, seeds, coconut oil, butter etc). Took a few months but I very rarely suffer these days whereas I was always taking ant-acids. I take a med that is known to cause GERD so was offered PPI as a matter of course but have always refused and thankfully my protocol seems to have worked for me.
I have had GERD for years and never could get it under control. This is my personal experience however. I now take two to three teaspoons of apple cider vinegar before eating or drinking anything in the morning and hey presto no acid reflux. However if I feel any symptoms in the early evening after dinner I take one Zantac and so far it’s worked a treat. Oh and in my opinion there is a clear and definite link between GERD and afib
My nutritionist suggested that - it’s to increase the acidity of the stomach which sounds paradoxical but acid reflux is often caused by the stomach juices not being acid enough. Taking kefir has the same affect.
I have read too that acid reflux is due to having too little stomach acid. If this is the case then it is another example of the medical profession getting causation completely wrong and actually worsening disease by their so called remedies. And causing further problems to other body systems. Of course there will be no dropping of these false theories as long as Pharma can make dosh out of their useless "remedies".
Exactly- however - it is slightly more complex than just the Ph of stomach juices & there are perfectly valid reasons for taking PPI’s & antacids - short term as a prophylactic against damage to the lining of the stomach from other drugs. Trouble is PPI’s we’re never intended for long term chronic conditions but as many expect to just pop a pill to ease discomfort - the situation propagates.
Yes, I agree with the connection. I had acid reflux before I was aware of any AF. Read up lots about digestion & also the connection of stress. Tip: I now have just a swig of Fevertree Bitters Tonic 15 mins before lunch & supper and it seems to stimulate my digestive juices.
I've read of the connection and have often wondered about it. It seems from what I've read that there might be a link but I'm not sure it's anything that we have control over. I did get a great deal of stomach and oesophagus related feelings when I had my atrial flutter and fibrillation (in fact, my GP initially, wrongly, put my flutter symptoms down to my hiatus hernia). I'm now post ablation and – fingers crossed – arrhythmia free.
As Bob says, the vagal nerve might well be the link as it enervates the digestive system and passes through the nearby hiatus in the diaphragm along with various other bits of anatomy. I wonder how stomach acid itself can affect the external surface of the oesophagus, however – which is what might be in contact with the atrium? It is a strong muscular tube, after all. I wonder whether some kind of spasm of the oesophagus might not physically push it against the heart? Another thing that has been observed to happen is for the stomach to push up against the diaphragm, and to cause that to press against the bottom of the heart – this happens when gas distends the stomach and with certain postures.
With persistent acid reflux, which I have along with a hiatus hernia, my own GP insists strongly that controlling the acid is more important to future health than the possible side effects of PPI drugs. His view is that the potential for the refluxing acid to lead to Barrett's oesophagus and worse is too important to ignore. An older friend has this condition and his brother lost his life to it. I did try a couple of years ago to stop my PPIs, but I eventually gave up trying as nothing else would control the acid.
Steve
You want to control the acid reflux into the esophagus- rather than control the Ph of the stomach as you aren’t able to digest & absorb proteins without an acid stomach. Important clarification.
Hiatus hernia for many, not all, can be reversed by changing eating habits. Surgically in extreme cases.
About 30 plus yrs ago, I had a chronic acid reflux issue and heard on the Jimmy Young radio 2 show back then, by the regular doctor on the prog, talking about this problem and he said eat the inside of the skin from a Green Banana. I did exactly that for a few times and to this day, I have never had that problem; and I had it very bad.
How much of the skin do i need to eat?
I remember eating a couple and that was it and I suffered really bad with it 30 odd years ago, when medicines weren't as advanced as they are today.
But remember they ate the African Green Bananas rather than unripe ones you get in the Supermarket. Usually get green bananas from the Asian shops market stalls etc... London obviously has these in abundance... good luck
And that skin has stayed glued to the top of your stomach all this time. Wow! 😉
Thanks for the idea, though. I’d read it somewhere before - it sounds fascinating.
I've been taking PPI's for over 20 years now, and each time I stop them, my horrible reflux returns. I have fairly good habits, and my cardiologists have never suggested a link between GERD and AFib. I am interested to learn more, and hope you get relief.
I think that a healthy digestive system is paramount with the link between Afib had the stomach via the vagus nerve, I have found that taking pro biotics helps a lot.
In my opinion oh yes, there is a definite connection. For weeks before my first afib attack I was wakening up during the night with acid reflux and the first definitive afib episode that had me in A and E was after enjoying a curry at 9pm. However, with the exception of one EP I saw who was open to the possibility of a connection with the vagus nerve issue, not one other medical person has agreed. So, as others on here have done, I watch what I eat, have cut out caffeine and gluten, my last meal of the day is around 1700/1800, after then I don't eat at all, no fun at a party or with friends who dine at 2000...but hey-ho my health comes first!
There's one other problem I have which could be a contributory factor, after a colonoscopy a few years back I was informed that my bowel was longer than the M25....and then some! It took two bags of whatever they use to check it, which might also explain why when my appendix was being taken out many years ago they couldn't find it! So I'm wondering if all that bowel might be pushing up against the vagus nerve looking for somewhere to go? Anybody else out who is similarly affected? Ever onwards....😊
I have had GERD for many years tried many times to stop ppi but after literally drinking Gaviiscon always ended back on Pantaprazole. I have Proximal AF and never had a problem with ppi being a problem. Maybe i am one of the lucky ones but i can ashore you after many endoscopy tests without Ppi i probably would have had serious consequences.
I struggled with acid reflux it was happening a lot and then got diagnosed with A f Since I had Abilation its all gone feeling so much better can enjoy my food better and life is good
I did the trail of the PPIs going from Zantac up the ladder all the way through to Pariet double dose, put me into agony totally wrecked my digestive system. I got off them with a herbalist but unfortunately when I developed the AFib the reflux came back and nothing is helping but I refuse to go back on the PPIs
I am reading this thread with interest. I started with P-AF over two years ago now, and in the past two months have started getting really bad reflux. The reflux occurs mainly when I'm hungry, due to a meal being overdue, rather than after eating anything. What really alarms me though, is that the reflux seems to be triggering far more frequent AF attacks than I have ever had previously. My AF tended to be at long intervals, eight months on one occasion, now it's almost weekly. The EP has listed me for further investigation by his favourite gastroenterologist, as well as a further echocardiogram and a bump up the waiting list for ablation. Meanwhile, my GP put me on Lansoprazole, but this after three or four weeks gave me really bad diarrhoea. I'm now taking Ranitidine instead, which she tells me works in a different way. It seems to be working so far - one week in.
Research York Cardiology - Dr Gupta has done a lot of work alongside a gastroenterologist with this subject. They jointly set up a private practice to treat people with this issue.
I found my GERD went away by stop taking sweeteners of any kind .
Science says that a tablespoon of honey mixed with a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar is a natural antacid. I tried it. It works. Cliff in Australia.
I had really bad reflux for years. It was embarrassing as the noise in my oesophagus was so loud everyone around could hear it! And considering I do public speaking, it was life inhibiting. Microphones were the enemy. I went to a gastroenterologist and had a ‘toupet’ wrap ( some are called Nissan) It involved wrapping a part of my stomach around my oesophagus. Great. It worked. But, because the oesophagus is close to the vagus nerve, as BobD said, it didn’t mean the end of my problems. 4 months later I went into AF. My cardiologist says that there is a link but not enough research has been done on it. I am convinced the two are connected. I am now 15 months post wrap and reflux free and 11 months post ablation and ( touch wood ) AF free ( for now). I’m not recommending the wrap as an answer to the reflux, but for me it worked on the GERD yet gave me other problems. Whether the AF would’ve happened if I hadn’t had the op, I can’t say. Or whether controlling the GERD earlier may have prevented the AF I can’t say either. No answer I know, sorry! But it’s an interesting scenario.
The interesting thing is when you have an ablation they freeze the parts of the heart that are inflamed, and that doesn’t sound like any kind of a link to acid reflux, there could be a separate issue been that the oesphagus is close to the left atrium and can disturb the workings of the heart? I’m not sure, you would have thought it would have been researched. It would be good to hear from a cardiologist on this forum.
I took PPIs for about twenty years because the acid was eating away at my vocal chords and causing a croaky voice.
A couple of years ago I had a blue light trip to hospital because my prostate had enlarged and completely blocked my plumbing and this had caused sepsis.
I was put on antibiotics that precluded the use of Omeprazole so I had to do without for the next few months while my prostate problem was sorted.
I started taking Chlorella instead and have continued to do so with only a few occasions where I needed to use Gaviscon after late-night eating caused reflux when I went to bed.
If you decide to try this please be sure that you use the purest Chlorella.
I buy mine from Bulk Powders and take three each morning and night.
bulkpowders.co.uk/search/go...
George
There IS a link, and Cdreamer stated it - "REDUCE YOUR CARBS" -- stated another way - reduce ALL your sugars, including what is in fruits, etc. There is a good book about this - "Life Without Bread" by Christian Allan and Wolfgang Lutz - give it a try - it has everything you are asking about.
There is absolutely a connection. Try over the counter Prilosec for GERD treatment. Also research Valsalva maneuver for AF relief.
R.N.
I believe that there is a link, and I think that my afib is related to esophagus issues.
However, I also believe that it is different for different for different people. My impression is that afib can have different causes, some related to heart, some more related to vagus nerve, some more related to esophagus/pulmonary vein proximity.
One study suggested that the insulation between the pulmonary vein and the esophagus becomes compromised, leading to possible interaction between the two. In this study they found that somewhere around 20% of the people with afib were able to quit their use of anti arrhythmic drugs after starting PPI’S.
My first afib episode came after a birthday party that featured beef stew, cake, ice cream, and wine.
I quickly found that Prilosec would generally stop my afib episodes.
Here is a link:
academic.oup.com/europace/a...
I’m not a big fan of PPI’s, but I do take them very occasionally if I feel it might help.
I am disappointed that most doctors don’t seem interested in anything other than what they already know.
I think that the afib community seems to be ahead of the curve.
I want to add that I had a sensation of a swollen esophagus for a couple of years before my first afib episode.
I have started eating smaller meals and cut out alcohol.
I don’t eat much in the evening.
All of this has reduced my episodes, and I am going on 6 months without an episode.
I still have the sensation of a swollen esophagus after a big at times. I recently learned of a procedure called transnasal esophagoscopy (TNE) than is minimally invasive where they can check out the health of the esophagus. I’m thinking that it might be worth doing.
No, I don’t think so but aspirating regurgitated food is really serious which needs attending to. Do you eat large meals in the evening? Do you drink a lot of beer? You shouldn’t have food or alcoholic beverages for at least 3 hours before going to bed as lying prone soon after a large meal may cause that.
I have to be very careful about aspirating food & drink as my bulbar muscles can just stop working without warning but I don’t know it - so instead of swallowing I aspirate - but that’s sitting at table. In a restaurant drinking water & have it come back down your nose is not pleasant.
You should mention your symptoms to your doctor if it isn’t caused by large meals & beer in the evening. It’s the yeast in the beer that does it.
You would know if you have GERD - intense burning sensation in your esophagus- which is the stomach acid burning your esophagus - stomach feeling like it is so full, even when you haven’t eaten much, that when you swallow it sticks in your gullet & feels like a big solid lump is just lodged there, bloating & general stomach discomfort whilst or shortly after eating or swallowing.
Can you please advise whether AF caused by the problems discussed above is "vagal AF"? Thank you.
Really not that simple. As far as I can understand & I’m no expert, It’s not caused by the symptoms described above but it is often associated.
You can have vagal AF without GERD and GERD without AF but both can be triggered by vagus nerve, which is part of the autonomic nervous system - freeze or flight response. Vagal AF is often triggered by posture ie lying down or lying on one side or another or exercise or eating certain foods such as caffeine, alcohol, sugar, gluten, fizzy drinks etc etc.
The body has multiple, complex, interconnected systems so when one bit goes wrong it can cause a chain reaction.
Did I read the report correctly when it states that ppi can lessen the af episodes in gerd? I have a feeling it was the ppis what brought about the af episodes. All very complicated and seems to be a little contradictory. I think more study into the link between gerd and af is a must if we ever to find some kind of cure. (Stop spraying the crops would be a start).
I dont have acid reflux but my afib episodes always start with stimulation of vagal nerve, ie bending head down towards chest or turning head plus bending down. Sometimes i can stop them by holding breath while deep in throat which puts pressure on same area. This sometimes works but if not they can last a couple of hours. Recently i have discovered that taking a magnesium tablet usually puts them away within 20 minutes
I was on proton pump inhibitors for 7 months when I had my first A-fib episode and diagnosis. I had heard of the link of acid reflux and a-fib, but my reflex was under control because of the meds. Then I heard about the risk of long term PPI use and A-fib (PPI reducing magnesium levels in the body and disturbing the heart rhythm). Now I think that the acid reflux meds may have caused my a-fib (I did not have any of the other risk factors diabetes, thyroid, etc.) but my doctor said he didn't think so. I was off all meds and not having any reflux when I had my second A-fib episode 10 months later. So now I don't know what to think about that. I will say that there is a vagus nerve connection for me. I get ectopics when I consumed hot or cold food or beverages and when I have a big meal.
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