Are there any anti inflammatory drugs we Affibers can take?
My knees are killing me!!!
Sue
Anti inflammatory drugs: Are there any... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Anti inflammatory drugs
Written by
Morzine
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68 Replies
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I was told not to take any of them but that I could use topical gel occasionally and sparingly. Not much use for persistent knee pain though. One poster here - jedimasterlincoln I think - did write about this topic some time back.
It might be best to ask your GP or cardiologist about taking something short term. I hope you can get relief - knee pain is damnable.
I did write a long post on this and I've struggled to find it, it may have been in reply to another post which I've not been able to find.
I've had osteoarthrtiis of the right knee since 28 after a cricket injury and bone removal at 17.
Pretty much long term use of ibuprofen to get me through work and life at various times and diagnosed with AF at 31.
Are they related? EP doesn't seem to think so. I've always mentioned NSAIDs (ibuprofen/naproxen/diclofenac) to my EP and cardiologists and its never been an issue or been identified as a problem or cause for me.
I've maintained a dose of Naproxen for a few years when not on anticoagulants - and always took a covering tablet to treat the acid production like Omeprazole.
Although in the last month I've knocked them off altogether and am trying to live without them apart from the odd dose.
When I was on antocoagulants, they were off the table (aside from the odd random and infrequent dose) and I was on codiene 30-60mg which was enough to take the edge off and function, but came with bedfellows like constipation and dizzyness. The inflammed knee was always there though as they do nothing to reduce the inflammation.
There has been a Danish study to suggest they cause AF, and a more recent one giving cause for otpimism. However at the moment having searched here I'm not in a positon to find it.
Basically - in the study I read and quoted more recently:
They studied people who had AF and were on various NSAIDs (anti inflammatories) and how often they had AF episodes. IT was something like 1000 people.
Ibuprofen caused something like 260 episodes in the time measured.
Dicofenac was better, but not by much and was almost around the 200 mark too.
Naproxen was drastically lower, something like 12 or 21 so I read.
In the case of naproxen (one I remember cos I was on it) the chances of AF episodes were high within the first 6-12 weeks of taking it but then drastically reduced further from the cases identified when on it for more than a few months, ie long term.
I have also taken tramadol when its been really bad (I ruptured ligaments as well as having the exiisting problem) and that was only short term.
Thank you jedi - it was a reply in someone else’s post but I couldn’t find it for Sue either.
Ah I was looking fir your old post before I posted mine,thanks for replying....I think I will go get co codamol from doc....but as you say it doesn’t stopthe inflamation......I’m so tempted to take the diflonec but don’t want to upsetthe afib AppleCart.....
You'd be better off getting codiene as a standalone drug, and taking it between regular doses of paracetamol or together if the pain is really bad. Start at 15mg and tirate up to max dosage if needed but see what the GP says
Can you tell me why codiene as a stand-alone drug please
Generally you can take a higher (or lower) level of dose between 15 and 60mg and when it isn't combined with paracetamol it makes it easier to stagger the dosage times and have a more effective background level of pain relief rather than taking it "all in one go"
My cardiologist says no. If Im absolutely desperate, I can take naproxen twice weekly. I guess they all have the potential to stir up heart issues. Sometimes it’s a matter of what is the lesser of two evils. Ive got bone on bone in my knees but not mentally up for knee replacements yet. One thing that helped me alot is riding my exercise bike 30 min daily. At first( a yr ago) I couldnt even make one full rotation. Now I can easily ride it and my pain is about half what it was.
Buffafly• in reply to
Thanks for that information! I am in severe pain with all the joints on my right side from hip down but I was a bit nervous about using my exercise bike again, gave up last year because of heart problems, my physiotherapist told me to start with one minute cycling and work up a minute a day and if I missed a session start again - being ultra cautious!
• in reply toBuffafly
My bike is a recumbent one, giant seat and legs are forward, no arm action. It’s alot more comfortable and easier on the heart I think.
• in reply to
Hi Hoski, am I correct in thinking you are a nurse? Me too & we can be guilty of over thinking regarding surgery & outcomes! Bone on bone is excruciating & delay causes more damage & can make surgery & recovery more difficult, my surgeon told me.
I had my right knee replaced in2016 age 62 & the left last year at 64 & it has transformed my life - I say go for it if you can muster the courage - you won’t regret it & wonder why you delayed! The latest implants should last for 20 years+ ( hoping they will see me out🤣)
Take care
Pat x
• in reply to
Yes I am a retired nurse and a big chicken, lol. I am planning on doing it in the fall. Right now I have a 4 mo old german shepherd puppy that in 3-4 mo will b less likely to trip me up, lol.
• in reply to
Perfect timing - you can teach the puppy to fetch things for you!🐕
Pat x
• in reply to
👍🏻😉
Morzine• in reply to
Yes my cardio said no to brufen and diflonec, but I wondered if there were others.....naproxensoynds the lesser of the e ils but I’m too scared to risk afib......
My chum over here in France is now six months after her knee replace, I’ve seen her in such agony afterthe op....I’m not exactly wantungthat route......
Sue
• in reply toMorzine
Hi Sue, please see my replies to Hoski above. As long as you work in partnership with the surgeon, knee replacement surgery is brilliant & life changing. My surgeon told me ‘I can give you the new knee but it’s up to you to make it work’ by which he meant strict adherence to pre & post op exercises & working through the pain. He also told me I would hate him and wish I’d never had it done in the immediate few days post op & he was right, I believe I uttered expletives I didn’t know I knew.
As long as you’re lucky enough not to get an infection ( choose your hospital carefully) take painkillers 20 mins before each exercise session & remember ice packs are your best friend, knee replacement surgery is such a positive life changer. Don’t put it off if you need it.
Pat x
Morzine• in reply to
Thanks for that pat, I am pleased to hear that.....think over here we get sent convalescing for four weeks ......I will have to have them done, just putting it off got a trip to Australia in September I’ve planned and planned for hoping to be afib free...now these darn knees are getting sooooo painful.....think getting fitter befire must be the key to easing this thru too.....im in the mountains the hills are hard on the knees
Sue
If its any comfort I did a wonderful five week trip to aus early this year. I have very stubborn af ( 3 ablations, 2nd pacemaker) no problems. No worse than usual. Flight ok.
Took my rivaroxaban and wore flight pop socks. I also have the 'dreadful Arthur'. So took co codamol, co drydamol at night and the odd ibuprofen. But it was a wonderful bucketlist holiday.
We drove from family in Adelaide along the great ocean road to Melbourne. Staying at various places. 2 weeks family in Melbourne. The drove along the coast for 5 days to Sydney. Most beautiful beaches. 5 days in Sydney with quite a lot of (slow) walking. Plenty of rests to take in the vibe. Where are you going in Aus. Hope you get 'fixed up' by then.
I’ve been! We went in September and got back mid November....two months....cape Tribulation in north down to Sydney a road trip.think we covered 4000 miles zigg zagging inland and coast......yes wonderful beaches, rainforest.
My flights were ok but tiring. Knees seemed fine but I felt very puffed in the up north heat.....I found the airports tiring.........got caught up in bush fires a few times, not nice to wake up eating smoke.......but it’s great after all we’ve been thru with afib that life does go on and it’s important to tell folk......I was boosted early in by others that did long hauls.....especially when u first get diagnosed you think your life has ended as you knew it.
Sue
I was told =- depends if you are on Warfarin ! If you are then no anti-inflammatory drugs or gels.
The only thing ( because I am on Warfarin for life) I was told I could take for pain relief with my OA of the knee ( before I had a knee replacement) and my current OA in the right shoulder is Co-Codomol 30/500. Its only available on prescription here in Britain.
John
Morzine• in reply to
Yes same here in France only on prescription.....I may go see doc.....I know it works as it workedon my shoulder but it does make you sleepy doesn’t it......
jedimasterlincoln• in reply to
Gels are a slightly different entity as far as anticoagulants go as they are (in very small quantities compared to oral) bypassing the stomach and there is no risk of a GI bleed.
They do however still have some impact on AF though not sure how much.
Yes I wondered as my husband knee is faviursble in those gels.....I’m just so darn scared to upset the applecart.....this afib even when it’s not around still plays around with us doesn’t it as we don’t want to upset it........
Hi Sue, I take Tumeric daily and that seems to be helping my dodgy knees. I’ve had operations on both of them in the past and may one day need replacements (too much netball, ice skating and dancing in my youth plus a skiing accident 10 years ago). Some days I take paracetamol as well. Those mountains must be tough on your knees.
Hi Katz can you taking an anticoagulant I’m on apixaban and I’m going to start taking it in the powder form as you know how much your taking I’ve warmed some milk added the turmeric powder and black pepper as that’s supposed to help you absorb it more, so I would be interested in how long you have been taking it and if you are as I said on an anticoagulant
Yea I am on an anticoagulant- Rivaroxiban. I’ve probably been on the Tumeric for about a year. We have a radio and TV show here in Australia called “House of Wellness” which has a very experienced pharmacist & master herbalist who answers listeners/viewers questions and makes recommendations. I have emailed him quite a few times over the last couple of years and asked about supplements and interactions with my medications and he has always been super helpful. He has recommended most of the supplements I’m now on and advised in which brands and doses are best for me. I also have a very good relationship with my own pharmacist so I double check with him too.
Thanks for your reply I’m in England and all they seem to say at the anticoagulant clinic is no to everything but paracetamol do you take the capsules as I’d like to use them if I’m away from home as it’s easier also how much do you take
I take Nageze Osteo Plus which is a capsule. I’m not sure if that brand is available in the UK but here’s a link that shows what ingredients are in it.
chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy...
Thanks we don’t have that one here so I’ll carry on with the turmeric powder
I got a programme of exercise from physio. It takes about half an hour every day and really does seem to help both mobility and pain
Think that’s a good answer....I am better moving than sitting, and steps I look like I’m ninety......nothing wrong with being ninety eh....great to get that far.!!...but I’d rather not be soooooooocreaky.......
Hi, i had the same questions about apixaban when first diagnosed with AFIB but assured by my doctors that Tumeric is fin because it works in a different way to Warfarin.
How long have you been taking turmeric please
About 3 years. I take Tumeric with peperine.
For joints, better than fish oil.
Yes I was goung to ask about cod liver oil......but if it’s better......
Problem with cod liver oil is because of the omega 3 in it, other fates can neutralized the effect.
I am so confused. I read that turmeric cannot be taken with any anti-coagulant as it magnifies the effect.
Clyde12• in reply to
I was told not to take turmeric and warfarin.
grambo62• in reply to
Hi, it relates to Warfarin not apixaban.
warfarin works different to apixaban.
Also Tumeric can also thin the blood, but again not in the way warfarin does.
Because of what I'd heard about Tumeric, i asked my doctor and at my blood thinner click. Both said it was ok.
Infact i have little or no restrictions.
Hi, I have widespread OA and it really drags me down. My Consultant told me that I could, very occasionally, take Naproxen. So, I try to be good but when the pain gets unbearable then I take a Naproxen and the relief is amazing. Contrary to what I understood - that NSAIDs risk triggering AF, I have more recently been told that its the risk of internal bleeding that is in fact the concern. It really does seem such bad luck to have OA and AF. Unfortunately none of the natural remedies seem to have the slightest benefit for me.
I was interested in what Carneuny was told about being on Warfarin and wonder if the same is true for Apixaban, which is what I am on.
I have had one full knee replacement, 10 years ago, and it was like a new lease of life, so I would say to Hoski ‘go for it’. I found the recovery quite quick and easy, as long as you do the physio.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2...
NSAIDS can also increase the risk of gastric bleeding which is obviously not good if you are on anticoagulants
David
Ah yes good point there
I get an injection from the surgery and this works well.
Hi
I was using Diclofenac for years to (brilliantly) control control inflammatory joint and muscle pain but then following a small TIA my anti-coagluant was changed and I suffered with weeks of pain while we tried all the other NSAIDS. Everyone cited the danish study in which it appeared that high dose (150mg or more) Diclofenac was shown to increase the risk of MACE (Major Adverse Cardiovascular Event) more than other NSAIDS - BUT as most people only had ONE prescription and the analysis involveded primarily short term studies the incidence of events was consequently small.
Three doctors all agreed that I should revert to Diclofenac and I am once again pain-free. Whether Diclofenac initiated AF or not is a moot but irrelevant point - the point is that I have persistent AF and am pain-free but the cchange from Aspirin to Apixaban is supposed to reduce my chance of another TIA by around 60% so I shall keep taking the tablets.....
Of course we are all waiting for someone to explain the cause of our inflammatory pain and its relationship to AF but I suspect we will all be waiting a while for that.....
Yes it’s a tricky dilemma is t it,.l...
Hi Morzine have had both knees replaced take tumeric to help with inflammation but it must contain black pepper or my Dr said it will not have the same effect on pain or inflammation, think about doing replacement surgery not bad it’s actually the physical therapy that has caused me the most pain. Here in the US they don’t give opioids for pain anymore only tramadol, but in the long run your knees will work so much better and pain will subside within a few months. Good Luck 🍀
I feel your pain been there another remedy I used before surgery was EMU cream and now in the US a huge thing people are using for relief is CBD cream. Hope you find something that works until your trip is over. Enjoy 😊
Good day Morzine.
My wife and I take turmeric capsules that I now make myself. They contain about 650-750mg of turmeric depending on how much I tamp down the capsules with the tamper device. I use the turmeric as part of my blood thinning regimen as it does add thinning to one's blood. I take 2 per day as well as vitamin "E", coq10 and "A" all of which are thinners. I also take nattokinase as my primary thinner and clot dissolver (nih.gov proven!). So I have not taken any prescribed thinners since early 2015. My wife has no heart issues but does have very bad arthritis and inflammation. She takes 4 capules a day and they make a tremendous difference. The purchased turmeric capsules are $$$ so I learned to make the mixture of turmeric and black pepper myseldf and invested in a capules maker. Makes it really affordable. amazon.com/Capsule-Machine-...
I think from e erything everyone’s sajd turmeric is worth it’s weight in gold.....interesting you make your own that’s amazing......
I estimate that a $38 bottle of turneric costs me less than $10.
CBD oil
Amazing stuff
Just got to get the strong stuff without the THC and with a carrier added
I was taking turmeric, but I realized I was bruising more often, so I stopped taking it.
My sympathies! It really is not a good idea to take inflammatories as they are known to trigger AF, particularly Naproxen.
It's trial and error with other painkillers. I had a very bad time last year with knee pain and found Dihydrocodeine the best. Tramadol and Amitryptiline were useless for me.
Good luck !
J
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