AF Association

Afib no cure?

Hi

I have just been for a check up to see my EP and get results of echo cardiogram and 24 hour heart monitor as well as discuss my worry about the failed cryoablation last year which resulted in a blue light ambulance to St Thomas hospital after a pseudo aneurysm. The attacks I get now are not as severe as they used to be and revert with PIP in 2 hours.

He was very reassuring re my episodes of AF that I use PIP for and said that he felt continuing with PIP was best and that ablations are not a cure as successful ones will revert eventually even if it takes several years!! He would only recommend a further ablation if my episodes got worse or occurred more frequently. He has also suggested I stop rivaroxaban as weighing up the odds and my age and previous subarachnoid haemorrhage there was little benefit at the moment as the risks of a bleed balance out the risk of a stroke!! I just wonder what other people are advised????

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I was told by my GP (last Thursday) who incidentally is not a cardiologist - that I will have Afib for life. It would seem that they are trying in general ie Ablation/Cryoblation etc......but not there yet. I guess that the best we can expect is some sort of relief. Ironically I am waiting for a 24hr heart monitor! Well, that is if and when the practise nurse gets back to me to arrange an appointment. They think that she is back in next Thursday, and then it depends on whether the machine has been booked out. In the meantime my doctor is not in, as he does not work on Monday. Some say that we should be grateful for our NHS. ........I'm trying to be!

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I had heart monitor for a day from cardiologist but had to wait 3 months to see him and get results!!!

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It is fact that any and all treatment for AF is only ever about improving quality of life and that includes ablation. My third has lasted ten years if I get to June but whilst I do not get AF I do get some other arrhythmias from time to time so " CURE" is not a word I would use.

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You have done well to go that long! I have had PAF for 14 years but it only got really unpleasant and affecting my quality of life last year. I had the cryoablation from Prof Schilling but it only lasted 3 months however the attacks are short now and no longer as painful. Just not sure I want another ablation yet particularly as it is not a full blown cure.

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I think kjjan, that is the unfortunate reality, but there are good indications that ablation treatment can delay significantly, the onset of AF for many. This is one of the reasons we try so hard to encourage everyone to do everything possible to help the recovery process in order that they get maximum benefit from the procedure for as long as possible. Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons, there are those who come up with every reason possible as to why they can and should ignore that advice, but that is clearly up to them.

We need to look at the alternatives. Whilst there are risks in having an ablation, they are generally small and should something go wrong, the medics are normally able to control the problem and although recovery maybe delayed, it normally does not impact on the final result, but there will always be exceptions. The alternative is to take fairly potent medication for life which often an produce side effects and they can become less effective over time. Those who are fortunate to be assymptomatic often decide to take that route which is totally understandable because all treatment should be directed at improving the quality of life.

Ultimately, it is all down to personal choice based on as much useful information as possible gleaned from the experiences and knowledge of others who know more about this stuff than certainly I ever will.......good luck

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What always amazes me is the lack of knowledge that some doctors have when you really research what they are recommending. Something like stomach acid seems to be treated incorrectly because drug companies provide the incorrect solution, perhaps because profit is their goal. One time I never bothered with health issues because I did not need to do so. I thought! I always trusted my doctor's advice. I have now learned this was not the appropriate approach. Health care practitioners must know a lot about many things. In fact, many know a little about a few things. At least this is what my family doctor told me recently. Just think about what some people on this forum have come to learn about one health issue, AF, and the time and self-experience it took to do this. Can we really expect a family doctor, or maybe even a specialist on a fairly broad range of topics, to be an expert about each and every person they treat? DNA research has proven this to be a daunting task. Even DNA data will not always give a correct diagnosis. Studies have shown that a person's DNA is continually changing and what DNA indicates is dangerous for one person is fine for another. To me, it seems the best approach is to listen to your doctor, do your own research, don't take everything as gospel, and pay attention to your own body and what it is telling you, because each body has a different message to give. Then choose what you think is best for you. At least, then what happens is your decision and not someone else's who really hasn't the same vested interest.

There is likely a cure for heart arrhythmias but no one is researching it. First of all, AF is now a multi-billion dollar business worldwide. There is not a great incentive to change this. The cure will generate business for chiropractors; but at present, at least in Canada, they are not allowed to say they can help; and most do not even know that they can help. They are not taught in university that they can help. Many of us supplement learning about AF from our personal experience. I am likely one of the very few people on this site who has explored extensive chiropractic treatment from a chiropractor willing to listen and willing to help, even though his medical license could be in jeopardy. I now know for certain that what Dr. John Bergmand states in his video Heart Arrhythmias - the Missed Cause has merit. The website is:

Unfortunately, there is not a cookie cutter solution for each person because each person't spine is different and each chiropractor has a different skill set. Many of the symptoms that people think are food related or the impact of the valsalva maneuver that affect the heart could be nerve issues in the spine.

One way to find out if spine nerve issues could be something that impact you is to pay attention to your physical position and to try manipulating your neck or back when you are having ectopics and you may find you can influence them. Try standing against a wall with your head, your shoulders and you bum touching and monitor your pulse. You may find your pulse rate changes and even becomes more regular. Other manipulations might produce different results. You may notice a difference when you are standing versus when you are laying down or sitting in certain chairs. If any of this happens, you should visit a chiropractor, but not just any chiropractor. You need to find one who treats whole spine health, who is trained to treat cervical vertebrae C1, and who is willing to listen to you when you give feedback on the results of any adjustments made. Just visiting one of these chiropractors will tell you if you have spine issues. Spine issues impact much more than just your heart so you may get other benefits from chiropractic care. For the heart, C1, C2 T1, T2 and T5 are the main vertebrae that affect the nerves that affect it. All the vertebrae in between could as well. I also think the kidney's are affected by vertebrae near T5 and this is why you pee a lot when we have AF.

For me, when a chiropractor in Florida said he could fix AF, I decided a non-surgery and non-drug possibility was worth exploring even though heart doctors, my family doctor, and Google searches did not indicate that a positive result could be possible. Three chiropractors later, and a stubborn continuance of treatment even when my wife has often wavered in her support, I think the results I have attained have helped; so even though AF has not been cured, it sure has been corralled quite a bit. That satisfies me and encourages me to continue this approach. It can take a year to heal a nerve, if it is not continually subjected to aggravation, so getting results may not be a cakewalk; but what you don't know, if you don't try, is it actually could be for you, especially for younger people who have not abused their spine for years.

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Wow thank you for the information I have always thought my AF was vagal but I will do more research and watch the video!!

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Many thanks for all that you have written. It gives me food for thought, in addition to my already mentioned " who has thought that posture causes Afib episodes"? However, I never brought my occasional (back problems) into the equation.

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Tnx for video!!! 1 month before my first AF I had a visit at neurogist due some strange headaches. All test were fine. She wrote " my trapesious are very tense" and I should start PT asap, masagges and take some Valium before sleep. Wow!!! Normally I took this advice not so serious. I am now convinced I failed to prevent my vagal PAF.

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I suggest that you watch the video more than one time. When we experience something new that we like or don't like, and that is maybe different from what we now know, our feelings kick in; and when we experience it at least once more, we have more chance of our thoughts kicking in, especially if there is a time lapse in between. I learned this from a marriage counsellor. So I suggest that when you watch or read something, do it once for feeling and then once for thought. I have watched the video several times on different days; and each time, after my brain has worked on the information, I realize something more.

The feeling response will note some references are old but the thought response will research and confirm that they are still representative of current information. The presenter is trying to get the viewer, some knowledgeable and some not, to realize that the current approaches recommended by "knowledgeable doctors" have significant issues.

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Thanks will do.

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If you really want to challenge your thinking, take a look at drjohnbergman.com and search "heart attack" or go to this site.

And then watch his next video on strokes.

What this doctor says makes sense. Most people will be challenged to take his advice. It is really difficult to go against the common norm.

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Might make some sense, but it's his American evangelist waffle that challenges me.

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Love him ... 💕... l intend to try to arrange an appointment. Everything he says makes total sense to me!

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I tried to find the evangelical part and did not have success. His website does not mention that he is involved. Also the number of times he swears in his presentations would indicate he is not that religious. Please show me the substantiation for your point of view. It interests me as well.

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