CPAP & AF

[CDreamer]

Now this is odd one I know as I hit upon this quite accidentally.

9.30am the old thumps and bumps started and sure enough I was in AF - HR 100-130 ish, I can usually function until it goes over 150+ so I carried on. About 90 mins later it obviously wasn’t going away and I was getting breathless so I put on my CPAP machine (I have another condition which affects my breathing which AF can often trigger and which is far scarier than AF).

I now do this every time my breathing becomes difficult to avoid a crisis & A&E, whether or not in AF.

Anyway what I have noticed is that within 15-20 mins the AF episode ceases, NSR returns and HR returns to near normal - well less than 90.

I don’t know if anyone with CPAP for sleep apnea has ever had similar experience - or does this just confirm that I really am a contrarian and 1 in a million.

I know many of you think I am slightly nuts - but that’s OK.

[jedimasterlincoln]

Yes we do, but that was before your most recent post

If you've found something that works for you then brilliant! CPAP works by opening up the airways doesn't it, and regulating breathing? Maybe this is what a lot of us need to do when an episode hits but its hard when you're unwell.

[CDreamer in reply to jedimasterlincoln]

LOL. I’m an individualist.

I guess that’s the effect. I will continue and mention it to my doctor.

Hope you are doing OK.

[JaneFinn]

Wow that's interesting! I use a CPAP machine for OSD ... but I've never used it during an AF episode. I'll surely try next time!!

(Btw, do you ever sleep though an episode if the irregularity lets you? So far I've been too nervous to risk it, though I don't know if that's silly. My AF pulse has been recorded at an average of 180.)

[CDreamer in reply to JaneFinn]

Night episodes do wake me up but I then do go back to sleep.

I just thought that it was worth asking if anyone else had found this helped stop an episode.

[momist in reply to JaneFinn]

I have not been diagnosed with Sleep Apnea, and have no knowledge of a CPAP. However, as regards sleeping through AF, I have (so far) had only two attacks of AF and I deliberately fell asleep during the second one after taking a series of Kardia traces. I awoke suddenly about three hours later to discover I had returned to NSR. My intention had been to see what was happening in the morning and decide then whether I needed an ambulance to the unknown A&E (I was away from home at the time).

I'm continuing to learn so much from this forum - I'll go now and see what a CPAP is!

[JaneFinn in reply to momist]

Oh that's really reassuring to hear, thank you, Momist! I must try it if there's a next AF time (we always hope there won't be, eh?!)

A CPAP is a machine that you wear over your nose (and sometimes mouth) to sleep in, if you have sleep apnoea. It blows a continuous pressure of air in, to keep your airways open. (But you've probably found that out by now!)

[dedeottie in reply to JaneFinn]

Yes . I dont know why but Although I am very symptomatic I have always been able to sleep with it as long as it is during my normal sleeping hours. I usually wake up feeling slightly better and sometimes back in NSR.

At first I was scared I wouldnt wake up ever again but after a few times of all being ok I stopped worrying. X

[JaneFinn in reply to dedeottie]

Oh yes, Dedeottie, that's exactly why I haven't risked sleeping during an AF event so far! It's great to hear you've been fine- Thank you for your reassurance x

[Polski in reply to JaneFinn]

The nervousness will be making everything worse. The best thing possible is to 'relax' (!) and go to sleep. Then your whole body relaxes and the high rate is likely to come down and there is some chance that it may stop altogether. Remember - AF isn't going to kill you! But the adrenaline which runs when you are anxious sets it all off - and keeps it going. So sleep if you can . . . and it just may go away.

[JaneFinn in reply to Polski]

Oh thank you Polski - that makes perfect sense. I was thinking about the instructions to 'go to a&e if your heart rate is too high/ you faint/ breathless/ pain' etc - so I thought maybe I was safr staying awake to check, rather than missing it being a dangerous level!

But the way you've put it is very reassuring ... thank you!

[jeanjeannie50]

Wow CD, how great it would be if you've stumbled on a way for us all to stop AF in it's tracks.

Jean

[CDreamer in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Not sure about that Jean, just seems to work for me.

[secondtry]

Hi, I am with you on improving breathing at night to control AF. I have Lone vagally mediated PAF, so no other issues to consider. A major factor causing me to be pushed over the edge into AF in the night was, I am pretty sure, my breathing.

I had symptoms of sleep apnea and was tested with a machine overnight but came out negative. I used to wake up in the morning with a thick head, oxygen starved and just wanted to stick my head out of the window. Many broken nights. In my case and from the reading I have done this is down to jaw and nasal shape, causing regular stuffy nose without a cold.

The solution was Nasal strips at night, there are a number on the market I chose BreatheRight. I would recommend anybody to try this. In my view its a major tool in the box to keep AF at bay.

[CDreamer in reply to secondtry]

Good breathing and sleep seem to be major factors in keeping AF at bay. Thanks.

[Polski]

I believe there is a connection - it's - magnesium!!!! I may have got the precise details wrong, so if anyone wants to research this on the internet and then correct the details that is fine, but many years ago when my husband had ME (CFS) I discovered that not only was anyone with ME likely to be very low on magnesium, but also a possible reason why.

Apparently they often breathed too shallowly, so the carbon dioxide built up in the blood stream, making it too acid. The body always wants to maintain a particular level of acidity, so takes immediate action to balance this off, and one essential substance in the process is - you've guessed it - magnesium, and it is then lost as we breathe out. So the blood becomes short on magnesium as it takes a while to take it out of storage (assuming there is enough there) and get it into the blood stream to keep the amounts available in the blood stream even. Whilst this is happening our personal weakest spot which is magnesium dependent, may well stop working properly so - AF, or ectopics or . . . (over 300 processes in the body require magnesium, including the digestive system)

This may be one reason why Bob's breathing exercise for ectopics works - it helps to get rid of the excess carbon dioxide so the body can go back to normal. Others have mentioned recently that taking magnesium seemed to stop their ectopics - It is increasing the amount in store. It also may explain why the best way to stop a panic attack seems to be to control one's breathing - because again that puts the oxygen/carbon dioxide balance right. It sounds like your CPAP machine is doing the same thing - evidently very effectively!

All this also explains one reason why magnesium is so important; not just the amount in the blood stream but the amount stored away ready to be called on when needed. (1% in the blood, 99% in storage I have read). So if a blood test shows magnesium is short - then we really are short of it!

Hope this makes sense! And - CDreamer - Your posts are always so valuable - You're definitely not 'nutty'! Thank you for all your helpful contributions!

[CDreamer in reply to Polski]

That’s very interesting, thank you so much. That makes perfect sense. I have Mg - which affects my breathing - & probably ME as well. Unfortunately I can’t take magnesium supplements but try to keep my breathing slow but CO2 build up is a danger when my diaphragm is weak.

Had 6 hours in & out of AF yesterday, very weak today & AF started at 4.30 with HE 180-190, now about 140-150. CPAP has reduced HR & breathing better but no affect today.

Life is complicated with more than one condition.

[JaneFinn in reply to Polski]

That's REALLY interesting- thanks!

[JaneFinn in reply to JaneFinn]

Ha in my haste to reply I replied to Polski in the wrong box! Sorry, CDreamer!

To you I meant to say that I'm so sorry all you have to struggle with - and that you're feeling so rubbish ATM. Sending love and hugs and hoping you feel better really soon x

[JaneFinn in reply to Polski]

That's REALLY interesting- thanks! x