Signs before AF episode?

[joebob]

I'm just curious if anyone gets any tell tale signs or symptoms before going into AF?

I'm not in AF now, but have been feeling agitated all evening and I've been getting a fluttering feeling in my chest!

Hopefully it's just anxiety.

[denny-62]

I usually feel unwell before an attack, just not right.

[Japaholic]

I can certainly feel it coming, I know when I am going to have an episode but my doc refuses to give me any more drugs, I only have drugs to take AFTER its started.

I went to be last night at 9.30pm - I said to my wife "I'll have AF tonight" and sure enough at 1.30am I went into AF which lasted until 7am - 1 hour after I took my morning medication.

[AnticoagulateNow]

My AF episodes were always preceded by a 'windy' feeling in the upper gut. I always knew when it was imminent - within a few minutes.

Post ablation now....what's AF?

[Jay10]

I usually feel very tired and out of sorts, just not right. However once it happens and I take my meds I usually settle within an hour or so.

[jossikins]

I really believe that anxiety, itself, can trigger an episode. Bit of a vicious circle. As Claire Weeks said in her self-help Bible for the nerves: "The only fear we have to fear is fear itself!" I am not at all surprised that so many people end up in A&E with a suspected heart attack only to be told that it was actually a panic attack, nothing wrong with the heart itself. Very hard to tell the difference though, whether it is the egg or the chicken that comes first! That doesn't really address your question though - merely an observation. I now have a Pacemaker so, whatever happens to my heart when I am tight and edgy is hidden from me. Thank goodness!

[nigelfarruca in reply to jossikins]

Very well put, l could not add to your comments, except to say, of course, the egg was first.

[realtking9 in reply to nigelfarruca]

Sorry to tell you that the chicken was created first as what creature would have cared for the baby chicken in the egg as other predators would have cracked the shell and had their own breakfast.

[nigelfarruca in reply to realtking9]

Dinosaurs laid eggs before chickens were even on the planet.

[realtking9 in reply to nigelfarruca]

Dinosaurs were created before the egg by your own admission.

[jossikins in reply to nigelfarruca]

I like realtking9's response - I could add to that by saying, quite simply, if the egg came first, what laid it (no risque answers allowed!)?

[joebob in reply to nigelfarruca]

A very, very close approximation of a chicken laid an egg which was slightly mutated and hey presto, along came a chicken.

[byoungccs in reply to jossikins]

I wonder if AF is a result of a lifetime of anxiety and in many people anxiety triggers an acute episode Irrespective, the condition and anxiety around this can be helped by anxiety management. Mindfulness practices can be of value to all of us.

[CDreamer]

Yes, I used to get what I can only call an adrenaline rush, felt like anxiety but I wasn't stressed nor in a threatening situation. It was a very physical sense, strong chemical/nerve sense, fluttering, blood rushing from the organs to the muscles etc etc.

[feejbee in reply to CDreamer]

Like CDreamer describes, an adrenaline rush .If it could be described as a picture it's like one of those cartoon pics of a cat with all their hair standing up on end.

Fi

[Hidden]

Sometimes my heart will be doing tricks in the hours running up to an attack - other times it comes out of the blue, but in that instance usually after I've worn myself out doing something...

Lis

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Hidden]

I'm exactly the same as Lis. Had a lovely day with lots of energy yesterday, but awoke at 4am this morning to find my heart racing away. Mind you I was having a horrible dream and had just got to a really stressful point in it.

Jean

[jennydog]

MICTURITION - the production of unaccountably huge amounts of urine. Also mild breathlessness.

[kernow43]

Hi there,

That just about describes my feelings before I have an "episode", like a feeling of dread.

Thought it was only me, tried to describe it to my doctor once but I could see from the look on his face he thought I had lost the plot, so until now I've kept quiet.

[Bagrat]

It may be useful to jot down when you have these flutters and DON'T go into AF. I have evenings when I feel my heart and pee more than usual but nothing happens and it's very reassuring to know it doesn't always herald an issue!!

[Jason1971]

I'm with CDreamer regarding some kind of rush prior to an episode. The only difference for me is not being anxious, but feeling great. Strange, but since the turn of the year prior to an episode, I tend to be feeling really good and then bang, I'm in AF. It can be very frustrating.

[CDreamer in reply to Jason1971]

Excitement and anxiety are polarities of the same adrenaline continuum.

[Hidden]

I am in AF permantly, do you mean like palpatations?

[joebob in reply to Hidden]

The question was aimed more at people with paroxysmal atrial fibrillation

[Hidden]

I am waiting for my next cardioversion, first one last 10days. but the drugs the doctor prescribed last time I saw him, have lowered my BP dramatically. thankfully. How come you dont have anything else done, is that normal going in and out of AF??

[joebob in reply to Hidden]

Paroxysmal Atrial Fibrillation is when you have AF episodes which can last from hours to days but then dissapear again on their own. I was in Persistent AF until I was succesfully chemically cardioverted. Since switching meds though I have had one proper bout of Paroxysmal AF which lasted about 8 hours - I do recall feeling not right for a few days prior though, almost like I felt a bit fragile and didn't want to over excert myself.

[heartmatters1 in reply to joebob]

Often wondered if sometimes being under the weather or virus could trigger it off, as you say you recall not feeling right for a few days before. My one & only big episode (touch wood) was after feeling not very well for a few days & a headache on the day it happened. The body is a very complicated thing - releasing all sorts of chemicals!

[RichMert]

I would say that getting up to go to bed then getting AF seconds after you lay down was the most predictable. The sudden movement and blood pressure change is all it takes. Standing up then sitting down is also a trigger. Warning was always a matter of seconds before.

[Francis43]

I have not contributed before but have been reading and getting reassurance from the stories of others with AF. I will try to keep this short(ish). My condition is PAF (hopefully!). I first had an episode two years ago, a week or so after an angiogram (relevant?) - I was not aware of what it was until going to my GP after a few days, she said "has anyone ever told you that you have AF". The only symptom I had was that I felt dizzy when getting up out of a chair. I never had a fast heart rate, just a very uneven beat. My cardiologist quickly had me seen by a consultant haematologist at the local hospital who gave me heparin to self inject every day for 10 days and put me on warfarin which I remain on. I had a minor heart attack in 1997 and have four stents in my arteries inserted over the years. I have CHD which does not help as the various pills combine to make me feel less well than I would like (at 72). Anyway, to get to the point, I am very familiar with the feeling of not all being well in my chest and an adrenaline rushes. My second PAF episode was in March this year (went on for 12 days) but prior to that I had had numerous sudden sensations of not feeling good. I have also experienced the feeling of impending death which I have been told by a distinguished cardiologist (former President of the British Cardiac Society) is called "angor animi". It is not accompanied by pain but is just a very frightening feeling. It was first identified in the 18th century by a physician called Heberden but even today my cardiologist, a long standing consultant, was not aware of it. He looked uncomprehending when I have tried to describe, over the years, the feeling in the chest as if one had just had a terrible fright.

Not sure if any of this will be of interest but I thought that at long last I should put finger to keyboard. Thanks.

[joebob in reply to Francis43]

I'm glad you finally put fingers to keyboard. That information about "angor animi" is very interesting.

I have suffered with anxiety for about 12 years and I know the feeling quite well, although now that I have a heart condition it seems so much more real.

I can often find myself thinking things such as "Well that's it then, I guess I'm not going to see out the day" or I get a feeling that my heart is just going to explode - I know these are ridiculous thoughts and I really don't dwell on them, but they pop into my head non the less!

I also find myself thinking about my own mortality a little too often and listening to a Stephen King audiobook on the train really isn't helping, but I'm near the end now and it's a good book!

[jossikins in reply to joebob]

You are a page out of my own book, Joebob! This most recent panic attack occurred when I had one eye on the Scrabble board and the other on a very graphic "24 hours in A&E" French-style. That definitely did nothing to ease my sense of foreboding, so I switched channels to something more frivolous. I used to be a Stephen King and James Herbert devotee but also found that they were not the best diversion from ones own inner demons. Happy-clappy stories would probably have been more appropriate,

[jossikins in reply to Francis43]

Hi, Francis and welcome!

For one who has never contributed to the forum, you have been depriving the rest of us!

I am also in my 70s, and was diagnosed with AF about 8 years ago following a bout of pneumonia. I was told it often happens in pneumonia and would sort itself out as I recovered. It never did. I have been through most of the recognised medications and cardioversions and, finally, in October of last year, and preceded by the implanting of a pacemaker, I had an AV Node ablation, which means I am now pacemaker dependent. My heart rate never alters from a steady pacemaker controlled beat now, so I have no real perception of what might actually be going on under cover. I am told I will always have AF, I just won't notice it and I won't be troubled with some of the physical symptoms of untreated AF - undue fatigue, breathlessness, FEAR!! etc. I occasionally have tiny episodes of what I can only think is anxiety, and just the other night in the middle of a completely non-confrontational game of Scrabble, had one of the worst panic attacks I have had in some years. At first, it frightened me, naturally. Then I tried to reason with myself that this was stress, nothing more, my heart wasn't even racing. It passed but it was a real adrenalin rush because it left me with shaking hands for a bit. It hasn't happened again, which is a relief, because I am writing this from a tiny village in central France, miles from any medical help, to say nothing of the familiarity of my Canterbury home. What I wanted to query, really, is thie term"angor animi". I didn't "perceive" that I was dying when I had that recent attack but only because I have been through it all before when I really did think I was having a heart attack. I had several severe panic attacks over one weekend about 35 years ago. It was terrifying! It went undiagnosed as such by the doctor who made a home visit and, as a result, I developed agoraphobia that lasted for some years - in retrospect, needlessly, because, if had I been told I was having a panic attack, I would have known what was happening to me and I wouldn't have been so frightened of it happening again, a fear that perpetuated and worsened the symptoms for a long time. But there was nothing wrong with my heart, as I thought, not then. So, my question is can "angor animi" be felt in, or applied to, such conditions that are not really heart-related?

It is interesting and frustrating how difficult it is to describe to someone else the feeling one has inside of oneself. I consider myself to be more than averagely articulate (writing is part of what I am) but there are so many times when I get a very benign reaction to my attempts at trying to describe what kind of pain I have had or sensation I have felt!! I think most of us could do with a distinguished cardiologist in our midst!

Best wishes.

Jos.

[CDreamer in reply to jossikins]

You make some very interesting and important points. I think there is a difference between a panic attack which is related to either a past trauma such as in post traumatic stress or accumulated stress and what happens as a precursor to an AF episode. I have suffered both and the difference were:-

Panic attack started with hyperventilating which progressed into palpitations and a feeling of things speeding up and being out of my control. This feeling normally responds to the old breathing into a brown paper (never plastic please!) bag. What this does is restore the blood gas levels as when you hyperventilate your body receives too much oxygen which provides a biological feedback loop which prepares your body for fight or flight. I felt very panicky and cognitive functioning was impaired,

Precursor to AF felt different - no hyperventilating, just 'felt' adrenaline rushing through my system, I had no panic, felt as though I was an observer of my body process, it felt horrible but I did not have the out of control sense.

That could have been different for all sorts of reasons, not least in that by the time I had the precursor feeling I knew a lot more about the physical, chemical reactions of the sympathetic and parasympathetic autonomic nervous system and therefore could differentiate and I had learned to soothe my anxieties and self treat panic attacks. (The 1st time it happened to me I was in a market, focussing on shopping and it really came out of nowhere and took me completely by surprise).

Of course we all experience and perceive things differently but I so appreciate how frightening panic attacks feel and I agree knowledge is power, just being told there is nothing wrong with you is not helpful!

[jossikins in reply to CDreamer]

What a wonderful explanation! Thank you. I feel quite empowered with this bit of very articulate information. I now also feel quite convinced that it was, in fact, a panic attack I had, but you know how the mind can play tricks with your logical side - everything pointed to the stress factor but there is always that little worm of doubt that raises its eyebrow and says "Ah, yes, that's what YOU think, but what is REALLY going on under cover of the pacemaker?" Ironically, one of our daughters, who is staying at our Canterbury home while we are in France, called me last night to say there was a message on our phone reminding me about a pacemaker check at the hospital TODAY (the 17th(! Just another example of NHS admin cock up. I cancelled that appointment early in May as I knew I would be in France over that date. They could'nt offer me one for the 3-week period in July when I will be home, and I was told that I would have to wait until September, after I am back permanently for the winter. They would phone me to let me know. I gave them my French telephone no. Not a dicky bird! I suppose I will now become a "no show". In the meantime, the sun is shining today, again, at last and a friend is due to arrive, the first face-to-face conversation I will have had with anyone (apart from my deeply patient husband and my own mirror reflection) in a month. I love this place and its tranquillity but you know what they say "You can take the girl out of the city but you can never take the city out of the girl!" How true. It must be my underlying kaffee klatch mentality!

Anyway, thank you again for your very erudite explanation. I have etched your words into my memory where they will sit until

they can act as a further reminder and strengthener.

Jos.

[Crab]

I haven't had an attack for 18 months but when I do it just comes out of the blue when I am feeling fine.

[realtking9]

You had AF attack. Agitation and fluttering is a direct give away that you are in AF.

[joebob in reply to realtking9]

But I could feel my pulse, and it was regular.

[realtking9 in reply to joebob]

Yeah, my pulse has been feeling regular since my ablation but I use a pulse oximeter and electronic Blood Pressure cuff and both indicate AF when I get to feeling agitated and fluttering in chest or nauseous.

[joebob in reply to realtking9]

How does the pulse oximeter or blood pressure cuff detect AF? Are they accurate?

I've looked into a few different gadgets but the ones which are suppose to be really accurate are also really expensive.

Incidentally, I have two apps on my phone, Heart Rate Monitor and AF Detect. AF Detect was useless as I tested it when hooked up to a heart rate monitor in hospital and it said no AF detected even though this clearly wasn't the case!

The other app though, Heart Rate Monitor, is actually quite good. I use it daily to check my heart rate but when I'm in AF it really struggles to get a constant read, so I can use that as a cheap test method until I get something better.

[CDreamer in reply to joebob]

I found the AliveCor excellent, my doctors all liked it as well. It seems to be the market leader and the one that the AFA work in partnership with & the inventor is a member of this forum.

[Deeferdi]

Mine just starts completely out of the blue, no warning, I just feel it go fast all of a sudden.