Palpitations and AF

[jeanjeannie50]

I'm just wondering what the difference is between palpitations and AF?

[Hidden]

Hello Jean,

I have been thinking of posting a similar post and keep putting it off until "tomorrow "

Nearly four months post Ablation and off all meds except Warfarin . For these past two weeks my heart has been fluttering,bumping and a trembling sensation also, almost constantly together with tightness of the chest and breathlessness,,,

It feels like it struggling to go into full blown AF....At the review a couple a weeks ago the ECG was calm and was advised that it takes six months for the heart to heal but I just feel something is not right...

Now, this is not AF as I know it where I was passing out,dizziness and unable to walk more than a few yards...but the same as you I don't know if its AF or whatever....I am not comfortable with it...Will be interested to see your responses...

Take care,

Carol x

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Carol - Isn't it maddening how ECG's are usually perfect when you go for a check-up. Then wham a few days later problems start. Do you think that perhaps you may have atrial flutter now, or perhaps your heart is managing to keep the AF away but having bit of a battle doing so? My second ablation has left me with atrial flutter and tachycardic AF. Must also say I'm having a fairly normal heart rate at the moment since my heart went back into sinus rhythm a few weeks ago., twice my heart has set off racing in the last two weeks but each time I've managed to stave it off by doing the breathing technique.

Would you be able to go to your doctor's surgery and have an ECG while your heart is doing it's strange things? If I ring mine when something like that is happening, they usual say come now and have an ECG.

I really feel for you. It's not nice when you have the uncertainty as to whether your heart may be doing something that's not quite right.

Wishing you well.

Jean x

[Hidden in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Thanks Jean my GP suggested this before Ablation...l have Flex to be using as pill in pocket but l keep hanging on in there reluctant to use....

Keep well,

Carol...

[Crab in reply to jeanjeannie50]

What's the Breathing technique Jean ?

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Crab]

Breathe out slowly through pursed lips for as long as you possibly can and a bit more. At the same time tense the muscles in your body (especially around the heart) and push down a bit (as though going to the toilet).

[BobD Volunteer]

The simple answer is that palpitations just means that you are aware of your heart beating. (Oxford dictionary:- Palpitate- To throb or quiver with anticipation-- Stop it Carol!) It can be regular and fast, regular and slow, no really, or an arrhythmia but it is still palpitations. What is happening to make you feel it is what matters. Oh dear it gets worse doesn't it. Is it me?

Bob

[Hidden in reply to BobD]

Now Bob ...My question was not " palpitations " but "fluttering" you know irregular beating likened to curtains fluttering in the wind.....or Oxford dictionary Definition butterflies fluttering around the garden....

Ha and no it's not you....Wishfull thinking! X

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to BobD]

I was talking to some friends (husband and wife) from my walking group today and explained that I hadn't been able to join the group for two months because my heart had been racing constantly. Her response was, 'I get palpitations'. I just wondered where the line between palpitations and AF is.

Jean

[Hidden in reply to jeanjeannie50]

A close friend of mine a Solicitor kept getting palpitations her GP in his wisdom treated her for panic attacks due to her work load....Twelve months later she had open heart surgery ....Wrongly diagnosed....Is this a gender thing again????

Last year l posted on here that the female gender were not always taken seriously by GP' s this post was promptly picked up and published in the Daily Mail....

Carol

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Hidden]

So true Carol. I think it is a gender thing. I sometimes get a dull sickening ache, high in my back, which only lasts for about 30 seconds. I've told my doc, AF nurse and cardiologist about it, but they don't appear to be interested. It does worry me, if only I knew what is was. Hmm think I'll ask next time I see someone.

It's good that the Daily Mail, took up and wrote a feature on your post. Do they look at this site then, or did someone tip them off re what you had written?

Jean

[Hidden in reply to jeanjeannie50]

On my review recently with SO l mentioned this piercing pain between my shoulders and in the chest...He explained it as gastro oesophageal reflux disease that is not at all unusual following PVI and that these symptoms will get better in time...This was caused by damage getting across to the left Atrium so just maybe that is what is causing your pain also....

I don't know how the post got picked up...maybe spies in the camp!!!!

SO should read EP Kindle won't let me correct....

Hope this helps 're pain in back..

Bye for now...

Carol...

[iris1205]

This isn't going to help other than to show compassion. AF, shows up loud and clear on an ECG, palpitations don't. Doctors calm them banal, and having had both fierce unrelenting rapid AF, and "banal" palpitations, I can concur the often constant palpitations are nearly as unpleasant. When I told my EP that I'd learned to manage the AF, and by that, no I can't do much but manage it during an intense episode but it does make me stop and take care of myself. The down side of palpitations is they just gnaw at us, we still go to work, we still cook, we function, but it feels like being stalked.

Today, as I went back into AF (as I am about 2x per week) I attempted to make the choice that I would "manage" my palps as I manage AF. With curiousity and observation instead of being run by it. So far so good, both the AF and the palps have not taken over and I have managed to keep a sense of humor about it all day. Hoping this new approach holds. I believe profondly we are all so very strong to manage these situations - what drives us mad is wondering how long we will have to manage it.

I gave in today, I might always have to tolerate AF or palps, and I learned to laugh today regardless. Fingers crossed my attitude holds.

Be of good courage...

[Hidden in reply to iris1205]

Hi ,

You will be my first thought on Wednesday morning....This time the Ablation will work remember "the springtime".

You have the best team of consultants there in Geneva just relax and be strong for yourself....Will chat soon...cx

[iris1205 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you so much Carol.... and here's to a calmer heart for you. Go the six months I'm sure it is worth the wait. in the meantime... a wonderful talk I listened to this morning...

itunes.apple.com/ch/podcast...

Your kinds thoughts will be with me Wednesday

[jeanjeannie50]

HI Iris - I hope you are back in normal sinus rhythm now. It sounds as though you are doing the right thing to cope with your AF attacks by keeping positive. My AF and atrial flutter attacks last for months now and with my last session I had become very despondent, but was overjoyed and hopeful again when my heart reverted back to normal sinus on it's own.

Keep smiling.

Jean

[iris1205 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Jean, I hope things calm, mine is going ballistic again... always a sign I'm making the right choice. I still remember last Christmas thanks to you.... I added a long post based on your Twas the night before post. It was a delight to engage in something playful. Thank you for your presence

[meadfoot]

I get the same symptoms you describe Carol and the back pain funny feeling you get Jean and I have not had an ablation yet. I am pretty sure it is AF or flutter trying to kick in but meds holding it/them off. I know it feels weird and certainly not normal.

I see my Arrhythmia nurse at our hospital support group next week and I am going to ask for an ecg. Incidentally 9 months into my ablation waiting list I have received a letter to say the list is even longer than the 12 months I was originally quoted and have been asked if I want to go to Leicester or London to get it done more quickly. I am being contacted by the hospital shortly to discuss further. Thinking it through at the minute.

Hope things settle down for you both and the rest of us.

Best wishes

Dee.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to meadfoot]

Hi Dee - Your waiting time is not acceptable. We all understand that at times a few weeks over the regulated 18 weeks maximum wait is unavoidable. Please note what I have pasted below from the NHS waiting time site.

The 18 week clock starts ticking as soon as the Trust you are referred to receives your referral from the GP (or if you use choose and book, as soon as you book your appointment).

- Even if you are referred to another Consultant, or another Trust, the clock keeps on ticking.

- if you wait more than 18 weeks, you are entitled to have your surgery done at a private hospital paid for by the NHS Trust that failed you.

- if you "DNA" an appointment i.e. don't turn up without letting them know, they can stop your clock and start a new one when you re-book.

- if you turn down 2 offers of surgery the clock will be paused until you are available for treatment.

Looking at the above it looks as though you may have a good chance of having your ablation privately, which hopefully could be carried out a lot quicker than going to another hospital that doesn't have a long waiting list. Why would one hospital have a long waiting list and another a short one I wonder!

Look up your rights before they ring you to suggest an alternative hospital.

nhs.uk/choiceintheNHS/Right...

Jean x

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to meadfoot]

Dee - I bumped into my ex boss, while in the supermarket a few days ago, and after two ablations about 5 years ago he has been AF free ever since. The consultant who did his ablation was Jas Gill who works at one of the London hospitals. He originally saw a Harley Street doctor privately, who referred him to Jas Gill on the NHS.

Jean

[dedeottie in reply to meadfoot]

Where in the country do you live Dee?

[meadfoot in reply to dedeottie]

I live in Yorkshire Dedeottie. x

[SRMGrandma Volunteer]

Hi Jean!

Well the medical definition of palpitations is an irregular, hard, or rapid heartbeat. It can be caused by an imbalance in potassium, or magnesium; anxiety, exercise, and one of the most frequent causes, caffeine. Not all people who get palpitations have AF. For many of us with AF, the palpitations can be a precursor to a full blown AF episode. When I get them I take it as a warning that something may be off and try to correct it by doing things like drinking more water, eating a banana, heart opening poses of yoga, meditation and usually the situation corrects itself. Hope all is well with you!

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to SRMGrandma]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, all is well with me right now and I'm enjoying life. I'm just wondering how you would know whether what you were feeling in your chest was palpitations and not AF?

Are you still keeping well and how is the healthy diet going now.

[SRMGrandma Volunteer in reply to jeanjeannie50]

That's fantastic that you are doing so well. I LOVE to hear that! Typically a palpitation is bit more of an isolated, random incident, often a premature ventricular contraction (PVC) and a symptom of heart issues rather than a full blown AF episode. Of course during AF those who are symptomatic feel every pounding wacky beat for as long as the episode lasts #nofun.

And thanks for asking. I am keeping quite well. Since January when I specifically put my whole emphasis on changing diet, sleeping better, being more calm, and exercising more it has been a profoundly positive change on how I feel, how I look, my general health, and how my AF manifests itself. At this point in 2013 I had had 16 episodes so far of AF, and to date now in 2014 I have had only 6. My goal for 2015 is to have even fewer. My only meds continue to be my anticoagulant and my Cozaar for my blood pressure (which is significantly lower than a year ago). My EP's favorite line definitely rings true for me...."Your AF is a manifestation of your overall health. Yep!

[hobbledehoye in reply to SRMGrandma]

Thank you for your helpful reply - though have to confess that I still don't understand it! I often experience unpleasant sensations at rest, sometimes preceded/accompanied by feeling excessively tired. When I take my pulse, it varies between frequent little, quick extra beats and sickeningly delayed beats. Would that be likely to be palpitatations or A.F.? I already eat bananas every day and take a daily magnesium supplement. I have, by the way, sometimes found helpful the outbreath through a closed airway.

p.s. Best wishes to everyone.

[David1964]

For me palpitations mean atrial ectopics (or PACs) and the big thud that you get when the heart resumes a normal beat. AF means a period of irregularity, lasting from seconds to however long. Today I felt a couple of suspicious 'flutters' or 'blips' - maybe you would call them palpitations. Folks here would know the next action - fingers to the wrist to assess the rhythm. I didn't catch even an ectopic, so if it was AF, it lasted a mere second or two. My money is on a couple of PACs, which you might refer to as palpitations.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to David1964]

Hi David - Thank you for your response. I've had AF for many years now, but I still don't understand how you would know the difference between a palpitation and AF. Perhaps I've only ever had AF. I think most people who say they have palpitations have a shortish run of fast beats. Am I right? How is this different?

[Di1962]

Hi everyone, I am still a bit confused. I understand the technical difference between Afib and "palpitations, ectopics, irregular beats" basically non-afib arrhythmia.

What confuses me is how do you all know you are in Afib and not experiencing something else? What do you feel?

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Di1962]

Di - I'm with you. I just don't understand how a person would know whether what they were experiencing was palpitations or AF.

[Hidden]

I'm confused too... I always think of palpitations as those odd, irregular beats and AF as something more sustained. I do get a second or two of what I think of a 'roll of the drums' when the heart just goes off into one. Would that be palpitations or AF? I really don't know... I too reach for a banana at that point. Sometime I think this is a warning that I'm lying on the wrong side when I'm trying to sleep. It's difficult to say!

Lis

[dedeottie in reply to Hidden]

For me, A.F. means that wriggling can of worms feeling in my heart. Palpitations would be a run of fast or slow beats or a run of ectopic. With all of the latter I can feel my heart beating when I shouldn't be able to. When in A.F. My hear is going either fast or slow but the overriding sensation is the wriggling feeling. With me I can tell the second my heart starts to do something different. It always amazes me that a significant number of people can't feel it. X

[Hidden in reply to dedeottie]

Yes, I find it hard to believe too - I know what you mean, when I'm in AF it's like having boiling water or as you say wriggling worms in my chest. Weird feeling...!

Lis

[Di1962]

I am almost 4 months post ablation and just off of a 30 day monitor. My symptoms, feelings etc seem the same as before when I was in AF off and on almost daily. My results of this monitor came pack with all kinds of different notations (psvt, pac, atrial runs, couplets, tachycardia etc) but EP said no AF. He is concerned with how many "skipped beats" etc I am having but good news was no AF. I am staying on my flecainide but was able

to go off of Eliquis - just taking low dose aspirin daily.

Not knowing if I do go into AF is worrisome.

[cat55]

hi, I share your worries as to the difference betweeen A.F and ectopics. earlier this year I woke up with my heart doing weird and wonderful things which after a couple of days subsided. In the meantime and slightly panicking I went to the G.P. was told they would do an E.C.G and then said they could nt as I have A. F ! Anyway had 24 hour ECG and then later on a 7 day one. Heart all over the place both times but only showed a lot of ectopics. It is not pleasant at all but as I have had quite a lot of investig ations over the last few months all of which cause me a lot of stress and my heart was all over everywhere prior to these. I am now convinced that they are stress related and am therefore trying to change my life style, I have just started C.B.T trying to take more exercise, and trying to calm down. I have days when ectopics rule, I am reluctant to take Propafenone which I have as pill in pocket and find myself waiting for A.F to kick in it is difficult to know just what is going on. best wishes Kath

[meadfoot]

Thank you Jean, I have read through the link you have provided and I will act accordingly. As always thank you for your support. I hope you continue to feel well and enjoy life.

Take care

Deex