Difficult subject but perhaps worth some discussion!
I just read a post on the forum which made me sad for the daughter of a gentleman who was littered with cancer and had a heart attack but they were able to revive him. However he is now in what appears to be in a coma status.
Wondering what your thoughts on a DNR order are in cases of advanced prostrate cancer or even in general?
Very personal decision.
I totally agree but wonder how many of us have even had a doctor, etc even bring up the subject.
In my case it was the family doctor who went over the pros and cons. In my state for example the document must be on paper with a orange background which is given out by our family doctor.
Requires a doctor and witness to sign it.
DNR yes, but AD do not need a physician's signature. If I had a heart attack and had advanced prostate disease, I'm thinking that's a nice way to go. Removal of life support isn't that difficult, but removal of a feeding tube if you've gotten that far is more difficult.
yes i agree very sad. I think everyone has to make their own choices about do not resuscitate (DNR)
Both wife and I have a DNR, this was discussed at length and agreed upon by us, wife and myself.
Now that this is brought up, I will revisit with her and family.
There is a standing directive (if situation arises) that under no such circumstances shall any family financial resources (within reason) be used for my continued living.
Cancer has taken so much, I won’t let it destitute my family for a couple more years of life.
I would want nothing more than to pass easily and my family to move on.
I have DNR, Advanced directives, my Durable Power of Attorney, Family and Friends have all been notified. Also have the directive in all of my Care Team's files. So I think my wishes are clear. The saddest situations I have experienced are with people who I knew - who shared their wishes and intentions with me, but did not clarify their wishes to the DPA and or their Medical Care Team.
Very important to tell them what you want
Absolutely. Too many put it off and then it’s too late!
I read and posted my response.
My wife and I have had that discussion, we put together an estate plan with the help of a lawyer. That plan includes medical powers of attorney and DNRs. We have discussed with each other and our two daughters our wishes with regards to end of life, palliative, hospice, DNRs...
There is no way you can address all possibilities but having the legal documents in place and the discussions with those who will make that decision, may ease their burden if it comes to that.
I have also put together a letter of instruction which lays out the steps upon my passing to close out my financial and digital life. I close that with these words:
As my dad so eloquently said in his letter to his kids, time to “strike the tents, “ a Soldier’s term for time to move on. Like most of us, I spent the greater part of my life not thinking about the end but in the end, I knew it was coming for me and while not embracing it, accepted it.
What do I ask of you (mom) and your sister(s), remember how much I enjoyed being here, know how much you meant to me, that I loved you and that I wish you find the peace that I have in this part of my life.
Kevin
We are approaching 52 years married. Have had TRUST and Directives since we moved to FL in 1986 and revisited as needed with changing finances. Both adult kids are fully aware and AGREE.
I thought I was doing great for being married 30 years but I have miles to go before stepping in your shoes. Congrats to you and your wife! I hope to live long enough to catch up to you 
Some excellent points. Glad you brought up the need for all the other legal stuff like wills, etc. Hopefully some of the younger members will heed that advice too as well as the need to incorporate family in the process.
Thanks for expanding the discussion.
Absolutely as Dying from PC is a intolerable prospect. I see it frequently and wish to never see it again, let alone myself.
I have been putting mine together over the past several days . I’m not giving up the fight at all, but it does show my family how much I love them. Saves them from making a very difficult decision and possibly second guessing themselves. Just my thought and not promoting one way or the other for others.
We both have worked with lawyer and financial advisors to have all the paperwork in order. At first we were reluctant to notify the doctors of the DNRs as we seemed in otherwise good health. After his heart valve replacement surgery, I dug out the paperwork. A number of years passed before finally admitting to the hospital that we had them. For the three hospitalizations this past year, the DNR signs were posted on the door of his room. I tried not to see them as the thought of losing him was too painful. Now I am more ready and daily fight the battle to prepare to face the changes ahead.
It is a very personal decision. Every adult has the right to determine what is best for them. The most important thing is to be open about your wishes with your closest family ... death, power of attorney, DNR, funeral, will, etc. When everyone knows what you want and what you have arranged, there is less chance of arguments when the time comes.
As for me, I am fortunate to live in Canada where we have MAID - Medical Assistance in Dying. If the pain and suffering gets too much, I can choose to end it all. I also have a power of attorney for my spouse to make decisions if I am unable to do so.
My wife and I have done the same.
It is comforting to know that Medical Assistance in Dying is available if needed and I want the freedom to make this choice myself. Belgium also has this option.
MAID is the sign of a society that no longer values life. I was supposed to die three times in my life with the most excruciating pain. There are levels of pain one of which is transformative. We no longer as a culture are able to see the redemptive value of dying and yes - suffering. We just get rid of people out of what we think is compassion. The suffering is not about only ourselves. MAID demonstrates Canada’s lack of regard for human life and the processes that press ourselves our families and our culture like fine oil into a great and utter regard for human life. Canada is so reprehensible it now constantly offers people to commit suicide for almost any suffering. The slippery slope is apparent as depressed people and people who experience chronic disease are just killed. Our healthcare system is in such shambles the hospital welcomes the death and pressures are systematically in place for everyone else to kill themselves or be looked down upon as a burden to the system. MAID is wrong. That’s a societal decision not a personal one. It’s immoral. DNR and MAID are completely different issues. MAID is suicide.
Yes, MAID is suicide, That’s the point. You were on the brink of death with pain but you chose to live. Your choice. Seems like maybe you were not really at the point of no return. MAID is for purple like us that will be in a position of in a living hell with no chance of getting better. There is a team that decides if you are at that point before MAID is allowed. Mental health issues are not allowed to access MAID at this time but probably will be someday. You think MAID ids just “ok, pull the plug”. It’s not. You are very cynical. It’s not a societal decision. That’s a crock. And you say “immoral”. Sounds like some religion creeping in here.
Just to be clear. DNR and MAID are totally different. MAID is killing oneself.
It sure is a societal decision. How else was it legalized in Canada? Canada has lost it's way and if the recent news is any indication, will shift to the right. Suicide is not dying with dignity. It's suicide.
It’s not supposed to be “dying with dignity”. where did you get that? It’s dying without suffering for no reason. Unless you believe philosophy165 where he says suffering and pain should be experienced by all of us. he is a nut job. Look at his handle. He is in la la land philosophizing about life. He thinks too much and his brain is fried.
"Dying with Dignity" is often the phrase used with MAID.
Here's a website in Canada with the title.
dyingwithdignity.ca/blog/ma...
Anyway, not knowing the other individual, I would profer that he's Christian and maybe even Catholic as I am. We do not suffer for the sake of suffering but offer up our suffering for the souls in purgatory.
It's exactly what Christ did on the cross 2k years ago.
Not to get religious but there are rational reasons why people do things other assume irrational. It's happened through history on numerous occasions.
This “nut job” declaration is called an ad hominem. It is indicative of intolerance for argumentation on the other side of entrenched ideological commitments. One person declares he is happy Canada has devolved into a society that includes killing oneself when suffering of whatever sort is too much to bear. That is a moral declaration. It comes from a worldview. It is based in a post-Cartesian post-modern ideology which has entrenched itself into the culture. I disagree and it is an act of conscience to rebut that moral declaration. If that constitutes nut job then we need more nut jobs who are brave enough to enter into the discourse.
You say “devolved”. that is an opinion, not fact based. In my opinion, the USA has “devolved” into a society that is “me first”. Don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up. You are a prime example of that. You want to push your ideologue onto everyone else. why don’t you just go away and let propel decide for themselves. And keep religion out of it. that is a fantasy that you all cling to because you can’t think for yourselves so you let some entity do it for you.
January 20th the evolution begins.
Good luck with that. I’m just glad I’m here and not there. That definitely shows the “me first” mentality. Hey-grab your guns.
Me too. Do you have room in your wife's house for jpburns?
What you have just said is ideological. Your pronouncement is an ideology and your request to go away is pushing your ideology onto someone else. It’s a circular argument. In addition you make assumptions and continue to speak ad hominem arguments. Others will see that. I am just happy to know that MAID was not allowed to be promoted as moral without some pushback. Peace to you. Let’s get back to PSA and other pertinent things. Don’t assume everyone thinks like you do.
Yes, let’s drop this. we will never agree and I hope your journey is peaceful.
Let’s be more forgiving of each other
It’s fascinating but yesterday while I was writing about MAID a prominent woman in my community died of ALS. She refused MAID despite the pressure. She gave her daughter and everyone around her the gift of seeing a beautiful soul bear suffering in a way that gives meaning and purpose to our lives. Her daughter was profoundly impacted by her mom’s bravery and trust. This happened in Ottawa yesterday. With your celebration of laws allowing the expunging of life the time is coming when people in this country will be forced against their conscience to be injected with chemicals to die. That is why I fight against it. I know Canada. I know where this is going. It is not something to be thankful for — thankful to whom? MAID is a travesty for this country implemented under an immoral Prime Minister. If he had his way he would force injections on us as we die instead of allowing us to trust the birth of something beautiful in the face of what some can only see as meaninglessness and despair. I’m writing this because her death was timely with this message board. Her death and her suffering brought life to her daughter because of the way she bore it and gave witness to the beautiful mystery of human life. An injection says there’s no meaning to our suffering and that is one step very close to saying there’s no meaning at all.
I have a advanced directive on file. We know the score.
I have seen far too many of our guys suffer towards the end. I have set up my demise, if I am able, as the last few months are torture and serve no purpose!
Yes it is a very personal decision. However, I am clear that I am shortly making a living will and do not want to be on any life support equipment at all.
I have been thinking about this but had not actually done it. I probably have little time left and hopefully that can be made as comfortable as possible. It is amazing the hoops one has to jump through to get pain meds but you can bet as soon as you enter a vegetative state the laws written by the same assholes will protect you and be sure to make as much money as possible on a hopeless case.
I have a lawyer friend visiting on about Jan 2 and hopefully he can help me with this.
At the risk of repeating what has been said by others, (I am UK by the way so no MAID yet), I have in place powers of attorney should I be unable to decide for myself and have written instructions to act as guidance to my attorneys so that they can override any stupid doctors!
My attorneys and ‘replacement’ attorneys (very important in case the first attorney is not available) are wife, 4 children and solicitor. GP and my hospital have copies.
Stating DNR in all this very important. Apart from having a low success rate in our sort of situations, even if the heart gets going you usually end up in icu on tubes and pointless prolongation and postponement of the inevitable.
Don’t think there is much more to say apart from get it sorted don’t delay.
I thought the UK just passed some sort of MAID legislation?
Not really. A bill has passed through the first stage. But there are many further stages and the process will take a couple of years and no guarantee it will come out the other end! A lot of MPs who voted for it had reservationas and things they will want to change. So who knows what will happen.
I panicked right after diagnosis and made a document with all the keys to my digital life, for my wife, to make things easier. Logins, passwords, etc. May not need for another 5-10 years, but better safe than sorry.
I should also make a living will/DNR while I'm at it.
Could you expand why it is important to having “keys to your digital life.”
When I married we kept some financials separate since it was a remarriage for both of us. Then I realized she needed to have access to my 401k, bank account, etc. to not have to go through lawyers in the end.
So my wife knows the password to my MacBook. And my email accounts. And my (our) credit cards in my name. Or my 401K. Or my social security. And so on. Maybe she might like the photos on my devices. Or my comic work there. Or anything else. I won't be around to tell her, and it might make things easier for her.
As an FYI- my father had a DNR. He had surgery in Sept 2020 for a colon issue. He had been in a wheelchair for a few years- he was 6'8" tall with Parkinson's- non tremor but still had difficulty walking along with other issues. He coded during recovery from the colon surgery- just a few hours after surgery. He had awoken from surgery, talked to my mom... then my mom came home to change and go back. They resuscitated him after coding. Apparently, they can do that even with a DNR in place if it's within a window after a procedure. My mother was furious. He did wake up after 4 days on oxygen and a feeding tube. My mother had been trying to get them to remove the tubes. He would NOT have wanted that. When he awoke he seemed ok- whispered to us, "what happened" and went in and out of it for a few days, getting worse each day. They wanted my mom to take him home. There was no way- he was oozing out his pores and hallucinating at times when awake. He passed away about a week after surgery. Gratefully, a kind dr at the hospital (most just argued with my 75 year old mom) allowed him to go on hospice at the hospital.
Thanks to all who contributed so far. Some very meaningful input for others to consider.
I will add an additional comment to check with your bank and financial organizations to make sure that all your accounts are properly set up for the transfer of ownership and access to that money immediately.
A couple years ago I put my wife’s name on all my bank accounts.
I have been married 58 years . My wife and I "ALWAYS " had both our names on ALL our financial transactions . It's called "OLD SCHOOL MARRIAGE "
We are moving next year. I am going to get my wife’s name on the new house and not mine. (We have joint ownership on this house).
???? What kind of advice is this? Do you have a crystal ball that 100% guarantees your wife will out live you?
there is a high probability she will. I have mCRPC. She is healthy. And what business is it of yours to criticize what I do?
I don't care what you do. I just think your advice is poor advice.
It wasn’t meant as advice. You can do what you want. I’m just telling you what I am doing to make life simpler for my wife after i am gone.
I'm just pointing out the flaw in your logic, ie I know I'm dying before someone. Unless you are literally on death's door, it's impossible to know what will happen in the next minute.Maybe you don't believe incidents like this occur: radaronline.com/p/cbs-ancho...
We have the paperwork to transfer assets. But i will talk to a lawyer about it. We are updating our wills in the new year. Thanks for your input.
Check carefully how this works where you live. We have joint accounts and the notary recommended also having sufficient funds in an account in our own names because the joint account will be frozen on the death of either account holder! At a difficult time bureaucracy manages to make it even more difficult 🙁.
It’s a very personal decision! One that should be made with a great deal of care. And one that can be changed anytime…..even at the last minute, I’m told.
My husband and I both registered our DNR’s with our doctors within the last month. (He’s 71: I’m 69) Our POA’s have copies AND the originals are hanging on our fridge in case EMS is called.
We - and our children - are happy to know our wishes, whether or not the agree with them.
personally a big fan of DNRs….last thing I want is to be alive in a completely compromised state relying on others to tend to my needs…..no thank you.
My apologies my friend DNRs are very touchy and is best to follow the patients wishes even though loved ones desire more time with them, however quality of life is the question. No one wants to be unable to talk or respond and lay there beside for others emotional attachment. Yes that's hard, but imagine feeling, smelling and hearing and you can't cry, laugh or tell how much it hurts. Dr's day hearing is last to decline but ego knows what a patient feels when in that state? You have to detach from your emotion is hard and send cold but necessary to allow some dignity respect and control for this sin can't represent themselves during incapacitating medical or mental issues.
shhhh don't tell anyone but I forged my ex-wife's DNR.....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Suicide sounds good to us. We will be doing it just as soon as we feel the need, if not sooner! And stuff anyone else’s opinion!👍🏻🤪
Get busy and cut the surplus population. 😜👍
We are at the planning stage as I type! 👍🏻💜
Excellent. Meat grinder?
Oh… the choices are great! There’s gas, high bridge fall, off the rear of ship in Norwegian fjords, cease eating and drinking (difficult for food lovers) drowning, o’dose hydromorphone, Shark bait, etc. etc. A bottle of Tequila, my fave Cointreau, Cognac etc. might facilitate! Plenty of choices…he is a Libra so choosing may be difficult!! But I am there for him! Onwards and hopefully upwards (or downwards). No time to waste!🤪🎄🎁💜
Meat Grinder --> chum sounds good 👍😊
Hits all the boxes including recycling.
Bit difficult to do together. One has to be the chumpee and the other, the chumper! We will overcome any obstacles. Tks for your input!🤪🤪🤪
Just Do It (IMHO)
married for 56 years. Wife and I are both grounded in the faith which makes things easier. Dnr and power of attorneys. Living wills as well. Basically when I am a burden to my family and can no longer be of any help to my wife I would like to move on to the next life. For those that feel there is nothing after death, my condolences. God bless.
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