I'd like to receive just ADT alone for the localized androgen-sensitive PCa I've been diagnosed with by my urologist, but he's reluctant to do it alone, explaining that it would likely only lead to a castration-resistant condition.
But I still believe there's some value in solo-ADT, especially given that it drops PSA drastically for some time, and also because now there's increasing research on both, synthetic and natural castration-resistant blockers!
Other than the common stuff like saw palmetto, black cohosh, reishi mushroom, EGCG, flaxseed, spearmint, etc. what might be a highly effective compound shown to be able to lower "T" significantly?
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Do you really believe there are "natural" supplements that will get you to castrate levels of T? You have 2 choices, have the testicles removed or chemical castration.
Doublet treatment is far and away superior to mono ADT. Trial after trial show mono ADT usually starts to fail after 3 years.
"then on to second line"? Am I missing something here? This is the whole story of metastatic prostate cancer before the massive studies revealed the value of doublet and triplet therapy. Hit 'em up front with everything, all at once.
The old way was try one thing, it fails, and then try another thing, and it fails, and so on. Except each cycle is shorter and shorter. And most people don't live very long. Did I misunderstand something?
Read your husbands bio and curious because you say that your husbands mono ADT stopped working after about sex months. But he had lupron together with radiation and that seem to have put him into remission a couple of years and now early 2024 he is on ADT and erleada again. Has that treatment failed already?
Sorry for my confusion and I can see that Bicalutamide stopped working but Bicalutamide is not considered ADT.
Just curious and perhaps I missed out on something.
To clarify. He hasd the radiation seeds in 2017 but after a few years PSA started rising again. In 2022 scan showed no Mets but due to rising PSA was put on bicalutimude only and it stabilized briefly. But about eight months into that PSA starting rising again and scan end of 2023 showed some bone Mets. Since January this year has been on Lupron and Erleada. PSA down from about 9.8 to 1.8 and another blood test in a couple weeks to see if further improvement. Side effects not bad, some fatigue. Started low dose estrogen patches a couple months ago. Has helped quite a bit with hot flashes. So as of now this treatment is working.
Ok, then I understand. It was the Bicalutamide that stopped working and not the ADT and that’s good and hopefully your husband can have a really long remission now when he is on ADT and Erleada so, fingers and toes crossed from me to your husband and you.
Note for newbies to this forum reading this note. Beware.
This forum is focused on metastatic prostate cancer. The bio of the original poster here and the post itself seem to indicate that "B2H" is fortunately not metastatic. But the poster's question and notes imply that an all-natural approach can be successful against prostate cancer.
It is unfortunate when anybody gets prostate cancer. Especially so when that prostate cancer becomes metastatic. It is a terminal diagnosis when it is metastatic, although with the latest therapies we are living longer.
But there is no evidence at all that self-designed natural therapies, as a full-on exclusive alternative to mainstream medicine, helps at all. The likelihood is that by following such a regime, that you are writing your own premature death sentence as, fast or slow, the cancer makes its merry way through your body. (All this isn't to say that supplements are always a bad idea. Or that therapies are always well-planned by competent and up-to-date the doctors.)
The approach suggested here is irresponsible fantasy. Which in circumstances of metastatic prostate cancer would be an avoidable tragedy.
Curious what you and the community think: Am I in the metastatic category? Does the data show that it will be prostate cancer that kills me? How long does the data say I will live? Thanks.
Summary of my situation (more details in my bio): RP 2013, followed by radiation. PSA started to rise around 2022. PET scan this year showed 3 metastatic lymph nodes. They were radiated. PSA has dropped.
T3B suggest you had PC in your seminal vesicles but I suppose they where removed when doing prostatectomy.
You radiated lymph nodes in the pelvis from my knowledge, if its the regional LNs nearby were the prostate was located then you are T3BN1M0 which is locally advanced and with that you can be treated with a ’curable internt’. It’s when your talking mets / the advanced diagnosis the disscusions is more to treat for long remissions and (perhaps) not cure
Hopefully you get more and better expertise comments
Everyone is welcome here I'm sure. But the name of the Forum is "Advanced Prostate Cancer".
There are other forums around for people who have prostate cancer that is not metastasized. For people with metastatic prostate cancer, this forum from "Malecare" is my choice to participate in.
In this context, it's important to distinguish between "confined-to-the-prostate" cancer and metastatic prostate cancer. It's an important distinction. And it took me a while to figure this out.
One can live with regular prostate cancer, and likely enjoy a normal life span. Metastatic prostate cancer on the other hand is a terminal diagnosis; life expectancy is truncated, often with a loss of years of life - this despite very good recent progress in available therapies.
When I was diagnosed over 2 years ago at age 66, I did my actuarials. And comparing my life expectancy without prostate cancer to my life expectancy with metastatic prostate cancer, I calculated that I will lose between 11 and 19 years of precious life! And even the years I have left will be more or less blighted by this unwelcome guest.
(It would be true to say of course that a person with prostate cancer confined to the prostate may see their cancer metastasize. Fortunately, with good timing and proper treatment, it seems to be quite possible to avoid metastasis and this one becomes a person "living with prostate cancer".)
The key point here is that the treatment of metastatic prostate cancer and non metastatic prostate cancer is very different. And the scope and characterization of major underlying biological processes associated with metastatic prostate cancer is unique. One can even say that a lot of what people focus on with non-metastasized prostate cancer becomes almost irrelevant.
When I was diagnosed it took me a while to figure out, and quite a bit of wasted time, that it was mostly useless to attend online support group meetings or in-person support group meetings related to non-metastasized prostate cancer.
An ounce of Prevention is worth a Pound of cure! A comprehensive focus on any disease would cover not just thetreatment of the current status of the condition, but as well afocus on informa-tion on preventing a prior status/phase of the condition from transitioning to a more advanced form of it.
From my understanding, prostate cancers do not start out as being "metastatic from day one," but instead, devolve into that state. Perhaps learning enough about the causes of its transi- tioning from non-metastatic to metastatic status might give answers to more effective treatments for the metastatic form.
Ultimately, the stages of PCa are a connected continuum of processes. They are not separate. As such, treatment #1 for any more advanced form of a condition is Prevention (which requires knowledge).
If Prevention failed to stop the progression of the condition, this needs to be investigated as much as the focus on Treating it. Otherwise, preventions continues to fail, and progressions continue to occur.
Very well stated back to health, I agree with your explanation more so than the black n white version… with new therapies n research coming out all the time it’s hard to keep up w it all but they’re getting close to knocking this thing out. Car-t seems to be very encouraging and probably will be our saving grace from this disease if they can fine tune it n prevent the cytokine storm that can occur during trx… never give up hope…!
ALL mushrooms, fresh or powdered (lion's mane, maitaki, reishi and others), Modified Citrus Pectin (Pectasol. Good clinical evidence), all dark juices but try to do the capsules as the sugars can be detrimental (tart cherry, blueberry, pomegranate, etc.) no sugars, no alcohols, no processed foods, very few eggs ( 2-3/month), some say soy (edamame, natto, etc.) at early stages. Eat a variety of colors in your foods (purple yams, red and purple carrots, sweet potatoes, purple potatoes, dark leafy greens, etc) for their specific nutrients. "eat the rainbow".
Stick to a mostly vegetarian diet with fish and chicken protein. (Mediterranean diet). Reduced dairy. I started this before my treatments and dropped my PSA 30%, and since starting Zytiga, I have been able to go from 1000Mg to 500Mg at the MO's suggestion and my numbers have not budged from <.1. A good resource if you spring for the subscription even for a month is TheMossReport.com he debunks both alternative treatments and western medicine and gives good recommendations and research sources. (He's an MD but also writes about his PC journey). another good dietary resource is the Cancer cookbook "One Bite at a Time" there are other newer ones out there too, but this was used by the cancer center my wife went to for her breast cancer and they provided multiple meals from that book several times a week for the duration of her chemo.
You can also find info on PCRI.org. the MD who started that also co-authored the book "Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers" which addresses the high number of unnecessary prostatectomies conducted in the US every year.
I hope that is enough to set you on your way and do your own due-diligence.
I took many supps before accepting the fact that ADT was my best option for lower T levels and run away psa. Now under control. Maybe research Ivermectin for cancer ,there seems to be some success stories. I was told interaction with my ADT meds so had to put the IVM on hold.
Nope, because your putting down the extremely effective anti parasitic, anti viral, Nobel award possibly repurposed anti cancer drug that’s been used safely since 1978…😁
So far my 2015 Bilateral Orchiectomy + Cryoablation + 1 time in-situ (Opdivo + Keytruda + Yervoy) injection + good diet + exercise has kept my Gleason 10 PCa AWAY
I've survived on Lupron alone until recently for almost six years. I recently did immunotherapy. But I've been metastatic since 2018 initial diagnosis.
Are you metastatic? If not, you might be curable, but most probably not with ADT alone, because of its extremely high ultimate failure rate, whenever failure occurs (sometimes very quickly, sometimes not).
Strongly suggest you start seeing a Medical Oncologist ASAP. While your urologist might, should, be well versed in prostate cancer the MO will have the special focus you need to fight your cancer.
FWIW, at the pre-treatment phase of my APCa journey, I looked at all the supplements on a pharmacy's shelf purporting to help with prostate issues. Too many to make any kind of sane decision, so I asked the pharmacist if any of them worked. Answer: no.
Mayo MO put husband on mono therapy of bicalutimide only but after a few months his PSA started to rise and bone mets became apparent. We won’t ever know if doublet to start would have prevented this but it is what he is on now and responding. I would prefer a more natural route too but this is what is working.
Androgen receptor blockade can be an effective alternative to ADT. Many of us have used bicalutamide 50mg daily with dutasteride 1.0mg. You have high testosterone levels on this with DHT locked along with the AR receptors. So cancer cannot see it. This can work for several years before eventual failure due to mutations. But you remain HS usually. Side effects much better than ADT because of the high T circulating. One issue is gynecomastia due to E2 conversion. This can be prevented by pretreatment of breasts with low dose radiation. Or by ongoing tamoxifen.
Nowadays bicalutamide could be replaced by another ARSI such as enzalutamide or darolutamide. But not abiraterone.
Berberine, quercetin, curcumin and pygeum africanum (African Plum) all suppress the AR from a variety of pathways. I take all of them . My amount of sweating and hot flashes clearly goes up while taking all four at once as if I were on apalutamide, except that while on apalutamide, I had SEVERE side effects! You must use liposomal or nano particle supplements for bioavailability. There’s plenty of research on these herbs.
I suppose if you avoided all the things that increase T you might get in the direction of where you are thinking. But in my opinion, rather than searching for a natural ADT you should be looking for a natural substance that kills your prostate cancer cells. My experience tells me that lycopene, heat, and magnets can help in that. However, in my case they seemed to work only with ADT, not necessarily without it. Check my bio for details.
You may want to try high dose, supplemental all-natural estradiol hormone (made naturally by your own body), which will lower your testosterone to castrate levels and stop the cancer from growing. Many men live a long time on estradiol (20+ years) without progressing to castrate-resistent PCa. Research the PATCH trial phase I, II, and III papers by R. Langley in the UK for more details. It really works ! Unless you are metastatic, in which case it might not work.
This is, for me, a very strange question to ask in a forum where everybody has or have had prostate cancer in different stages
My personal opinion. This is CANCER we are talking about and normally cancer kills, if not treated.
So here’s my personal advice; use every avaliable tool in the toolbox to hit the cancer beast and try to kill that before it actually may kill you in maybe a really bad way
I suppose you are in a state of trying control with minimal side effect but my personal advice is, kick it hard and fast before it kicks you and it will if not treated.
Castration, and go from there. I didn't do it, I brought it up to the docs and they wouldn't do it. I am without the use of my testes anyway. I would recommend that, unless they tell you different and back it up with facts.
I think the idea of a natural therapy is great. However, I also think that every therapy has its place and natural therapies tend not to be effective enough for cancer or fast enough with an aggressive disease.
I see no description of your diagnosis or treatments to date in your previous posts and that in itself is extremely relevant to future treatments. An aggressive and fast moving variant requires an equally aggressive treatment and to my knowledge no natural remedies provide that.
However, I have done research on the use of mushroom extracts in the prevention of prostate cancer and reduction of metastases. White mushroom have the greatest success in studies but I have only found sources from Canada for the "hot water extraction process" used in studies.
There are more out there that you should research. Having said that, I do not believe that can be the sole answer for this disease. I use it as a supplement to treatment. I was diagnosed in late 2016 and had a gleason 9, after a prostatectomy, I had a prostate cancer grade of T2cN1. Later, after the Axumin scan, that changed to T2cN1M2. I then had SBRT for a bone lesion on my left femur and was also put on Zytiga which I still take. I have supplemented this with an immunity blend of mushrooms, turkey tail (recently discontinued this because it was not PCa specific.) and now white mushroom extract.
I would be very wary of any natural treatments as a sole response. I know that you are someone with a background in nutrition and natural medicine but every type of medicine has its limitations.
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Just evaluated as castration resistant
Statin use in advanced PCA with ADT or abiraterone/enzalutamide
Effectiveness of ADT
Pluvicto after long time androgen deprivation therapy
