Has anyone using estrogens (estradiol) as the primary agent of ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) had their prostate cancer become resistant (androgen independent) to the treatment?
I also do not know of a single instance of any man using TDE as the primary agent of ADT (which I have been lobbying my oncologist for since the constellation of side effects with TDE is far superior to FDA-approved agents.
I know of three men using high-dose trans-dermal estradiol (TDE) to suppress their testosterone (and thus their cancer) for 4, 6 and 20 years without progression, but these are mere anecdotal evidence. I seek more anecdotal evidence or, better yet, some authoritative data.
I would like to know if there are any contra-indications to using TDE long-term.
Thanks for reading.
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Lost_Sheep
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The estrogens suppress testosterone just like lupron. So if Lupron does not work anymore, estrogrens will probably not work as well. But you can try. The advantage of estrogens is, apart from their low cost, that the estrogen level is not suppressed as it is the case with Lupron. Therefore you avoid many side effects like bone loss etc. which are caused by a low estrogen level.
As I understand it, Lupron and other receptor antagonists work in one way. Antagonists work on the same biological feedback (hormone-regulating) loop in another way - but the same feedback loop (my redundant mention is intentional, for emphasis).
I am not sure estrogens (estradiol or E2 specifically) works in the same way as the others, or even on the same feedback loop(s). I am not convinced the scientists do, either.
I know one researcher started a study looking to see if E2 upregulated a man's immune response to prostate cancer, but in 28 days allotted for the study did not find evidence. I can imagine something involving the hormone receptors inside prostate cancer cells responding to ultra-high E2 levels in a negative way. If I was a medical researcher, I would be looking inside the cancer cells, particularly at steriodogenesis (intra-cellular production of T and DHT to feed cancer) or cellular uptake and usage of the sex hormones. Alas, I am not, so conducting a clinical trial of one with high-dose trans-dermal estradiol😁.
Awaiting publication of the finalized PATCH trial. (Prostate Adenocarcinoma Trans-Cutaneous Hormone trial).
Ron in Thailand, Richard in Canada and who is third? My intention is to try TDE if PSA returns. Hopefully the large study of TDE will be finished this year.
I was using transdermal E2, but I switched to weekly injections (estradiol valerate). Cheaper and less hassle. Using it for two years now. My MO thinks E2 may have stopped my bone mets in their tracks. In any case, my body works a lot better with E2 in it…better bones, muscles, less fog.
I am interested where you found the recomendation for Estradiol Valerate injection I have been using the Estradiol patches (TDE) for 5 years and no problems and no profound side effects. A weekly injection may well be an improvement but really the patches are not a huge problem either
Scout4answers wrote, "Ron in Thailand, Richard in Canada and who is third? "
Known on this forum as "petercraig2". I also know of a guy (Bob) in South Carolina using it for 4 years, but he does not communicate much. Another in California, but I do not know his name.
Another Bob in New Mexico is actively seeking TDE and is quite the researcher and compiler of data. "janebob99" and he would LOVE to hear from you. Remember me to him, please.
Larry (Lost_Sheep) in Alaska, still looking for an oncologist near Anchorage.
However estrogen was stopped citing heart problems and companies such as Astrazenica brought out Zoladex ADT treatment - Zoladex by blocking testosterone also blocks estrogen bc a mans testosterone also makes his estrogen supply which is important
Transdermal estrogen patches should be made available bc they bypass liver and are safe for men without debilitating side affects of ADT
Ive seen data that says estrogen is good for castrate resistant pc both online and on this site
By the same token testosterone seems to be good for treating breast cancer
PATCH trial is dragging its heals imo
Big Pharma doesnt like hormones they just want to block them off - not use them in a helpful way - hormones are key
My husband has a potent phytoestrogen ( plant estrogen) called Aguaje bc he wouldnt do well on ADT
100 g of fruit contains 526 calories, 46% as carbohydrate, 38.6% from fat and 11% in the form of proteins.
Also 100 g of aguaje contain:
fibers (41.9%)
vitamin A
C vitamin
Vitamin E
0.85 mg of riboflavin
2.57 mg of niacin
0.11 mg of thiamine
91 micrograms of carotene
415.4 mg of calcium
69.9 mg of phosphorus
12.9 mg of iron
The amount of vitamin A – present in the form of carotenoids – can be five times higher than those found in carrots. Moreover aguaje is a good source of phytoestrogens and oleic acid.
My nephew married a Peruvian and was importing and selling Aguaje which is grown in Peru also Brazil I started using it as I was approaching menopause it stopped menopause symptoms and I have realised it also keeps arthrihis at bay
It isnt easy to get genuine Aguaje in UK
My nephew is getting a divorce so I had to find an alternative source after buying dud aguaje from India I got lucky with a seller on ebay uk I bought a load and put it in the freezer
US is near to Peru so you should be able to buy some genuine aguaje - maybe contact Peruvian gov for genuine suppliers
Relief from menopause symptoms is one thing but suppressing testosterone ( to suppress prostate cancer growth) quite another. I do not diminish your experience, but the mechanism of the one in women does not guarantee the result of the mechanism of the other in men
Just a caution. If a man chooses to use Aguaje to treat prostate cancer, checking his estradiol levels would be prudent. Checking his testosterone levels even more necessary and checking his PSA levels the defining parameter of efficacy.
I did not doubt your experience. And I do give credence to Dr Huggins and Dr Hodges. Note the Nobel Prize in 1966.
I am adamantly seeking estradiol (transdermal) as the agent of ADT (Andrew deprivation therapy). I do believe estrogens are superior to the ADTs so far approved by the FDA.
What I question is the mechanisms by which menopause symptoms are suppressed versus the mechanism that testosterone is suppressed (if it actually is ) with Aguaje. The possibility that they may be two separate mechanisms looms large in my mind and that success with the one does not guarantee success with the other.
I meant no more than that and did not mean to give any offense or doubt to your lived experience.
The best source of papers are those reports from the Phase-I and Phase-II UK PATCH trials covering the past 15 years. They have studied approximately 1000 men doing high-dose transdermal estradiol ADT in place of Lupron ADT. The main reported bad side effects are gynecomastia (from the high estradiol) and muscle weakness/loss (due to the low testosterone ). There has been no increase in blood clots or CVE's reported.
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PATCH Study Results
