Full body MRI?

[Oatmeal2]

We’ve been reading about full body MRIs and wonder if anyone has had one after radiation treatment for prostate cancer? Can this type of test pick up micro metastases? If the full body scan was “all clear” could ADT be shortened from 2 years to a lower amount?

[Tall_Allen]

No, it can't image micromets and tells you nothing about the value of ADT.

[Oatmeal2 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thank you for your response.

[pd63]

Might find something that's asymtomatic but untreatable e.g. deep seated brain aneurysm etc.best to leave well alone

[85236442968]

Did you not have a PET scan?? While it does not show your internals organs in the detail of the MRI full body scan It does target any PC metastases. PET scan for PSMA (PSA Marker) uses a radioactive element (Ga 68) that combines with glucose and lights up any area that have PSMA activity.

[Oatmeal2]

yes my husband had the PSMA pet scan before the radiation and ADT started. He finished the radiation a few months ago and has taken 6 months of ADT but is having difficulty with the “wait and see” if your PSA starts rising aspect of this disease. He saw a story on the news about the full body MRI and was interested in finding out more about it

[NanoMRI in reply to Oatmeal2]

I manage my PSA wait and see anxieties by testing more frequently, self-directed. Yes, it can be self-paid as it may be more frequent than insurance and/or doc will support, I find it worth it.

[Oldie68 in reply to NanoMRI]

Would you mind sharing how much it costs and where do you get the scans?

[NanoMRI in reply to Oldie68]

self-directed usPSA tests or scans?

[Oldie68 in reply to NanoMRI]

I was asking for scans but now that you mention it both are of interest, I believe not only for me.

[NanoMRI in reply to Oldie68]

For my self-directed lab tests I use RequetsATest, most often LabCorp, zip codes based (most of US), $109 for ultrasensitive PSA. WalkIn Lab is another but I have not used this portal. For the Ferrotran nanoparticle MRI, splmed .com is the home web site. Six years ago the cost for this, Ga 68 and other scans was around USD6,000, plus travel.

[Oldie68 in reply to NanoMRI]

Thank you very much! It really helps to budget in this type of healthcare cost.

[85236442968 in reply to Oatmeal2]

Yes I certainly get the waiting game. I am scheduled for my post radiation and 6 month of ADT follow-up PET scan on April 8. I wonder what it will show. The first one was amazing what it showed. I asked some of the others that were going thru radiation at the same time as I did , if they saw their pet scan results. Most had not. Ask to see what the results are along with the report.

[Oatmeal2 in reply to 85236442968]

Hi, I find it interesting that you are getting a follow up PET scan post radiation and 6 months ADT. When we asked the radiation oncologist about a follow up scan he indicated that they would only request one if the PSA starts to rise. I was wondering if some doctors order them post radiation even if the PSA is not rising.

[85236442968 in reply to Oatmeal2]

Oatmeal

As I get it, in the Cancer center I go to. The post radiation PET scan is SOP. the only times it is not routinely done is when the patients had nothing outside the Prostate on the original scan.

Unfortunately I had a number of Pelvis Lymph nodes that lit up and 2 Lymph nodes at the Periaortic level. No other Mets, other than the lymph nodes.

The follow-up scan may be SOP with Lymph Nodes or other Mets.

I am very curious as to what it will show.

[Mgtd in reply to Oatmeal2]

PSA wait and see anxiety can be tough. I am exactly in the same situation. I am 7 months post radiation. I have had two PSA test - 3 months and 6 months. Both RO AND MO were happy with the results. So why should I be worried. I have no control over the future.

Best advice is KEEP BUSY. l keep really busy with hobbies, dogs, exercise program and cooking/cleaning/shopping and exterior housekeeping, gardening and snow shoveling in the winter and taking care of my wife who is now handicapped.

So you have to remember an idle mind is the devil’s workshop. You can invent all sorts of scenarios. After all of the above I sleep like a baby and get 8 to 9 hours and start the day again. No time to worry about what ifs that I can not control.

Hope this helps.

[Oatmeal2 in reply to Mgtd]

Yes, I completely agree.

[Derf4223]

It's called PSA test anxiety and anybody here who says they don't feel it is either lying or has alzheimers

[Break60 in reply to Derf4223]

Lol

[Oatmeal2]

yes, that’s exactly it.

[JRLDH]

I had one three months ago. The one I had did T1, T2, STIR, DWI on a 1.5T machine.

It’ll show fairly large lesions (>5mm; it for example showed my 8mm PI-RADS 4 lesion (but their radiologist didn’t mention it) from my dedicated mpMRI on a 3T machine) but not micro metastases.

The problem with these whole body MRIs is that for the price they charge, there isn’t the required team of radiologists that would be necessary to actually read the images to catch a small tumor.

The radiologist from my whole body MRI didn’t say anything about my prostate even though I have low grade prostate cancer and significant intravesical protrusion. And while the images show large spots on my spine, there is zero explanation from their radiologist.

In my personal experience, it’s very interesting seeing inside the body but unless you have an obvious large tumor that jumps out on the images, chances are their radiologist won’t notice it.

[NIKKIWOOD]

As some above mentioned, what I believe you are looking for is called a PMSA Pet scan. They give you some kind of nuclear cocktail, make you wait 45 minutes for it to circulate, then they lay you down for a simple scan which took me about 10 minutes. The operator's screen immediately shows where you have cancer cells. My oncologist got such a machine recently, so he seems to be running everyone thru it; cost me nothing, since my insurance paid for it.

Good luck..........

[Purple-Bike]

A whole body MRI is interesting for undifferentiated PCa that does not express PSA and PSMA.

[Grandpa4]

The problem with whole body MRI is that : 1. It is not sensitive enough to rule out micrometastasis. 2. In nearly 10% of cases it finds false positive lesions that need follow up testing and/or biopsy. This is obviously very expensive approavh to cancer screening both financially and emotionally.

[HotRod4321]

My experience only:

BOTTOM LINE short version to your question: short version: 1. Yes; and 2. Cannot stop ADT ((Androgen Deprivation Therapy = meaning zero TesT (testosterone), ever!).

[BACKGROUND: Could not get to Doctor during covid nonsense. After state opened up, PSA had jumped to 28! Whoa! Naturally I have PCa (Prostate Cancer, I only add the small a as that is what I seen on my medical reports, I think it refers to antigen) verified by biopsy 2021 (delayed 8 months - covid excuse - ugh!) resulting in possible osseous metastasis (fancy doctor term for: cancer has moved to bone, a bit in pelvis, back, sternum, and ribs = not good)(good and lucky = nothing seen in endocrine system!). My treatment = radiate (28 working days straight) prostate as removal (proctectomy) not viable option. Eligard injections every 3 months. Erleada 240mg every day. GOAL: PSA < 0.1 (meaning pretty much none. Six months later added Xgeva injection (for bones, every month for 2 years and then every 3 months same time as Eligard). PS: Gene test for 24 markers = none, meaning that there is nothing in my genes that suggest PCa; meaning I shouldn't have it. Wish he were correct, but no.]

2021 = first tests = MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) midsection, NM whole body scan (here's where they saw 'glow in the dark' spots that 'suggest' metastasis (cancer moving in my body, for me to bone).

2022 = PSMA (Prostate Specific Membrane Antigen = they've figured out how to get the radioactive stuff to stick to the cancer cells) test = now gold standard in prostate cancer treatments = requires pre-approval = expensive) (for me: nothing to see here! GOOD!)

2023 = PSMA test (for me: nothing to see here! GOOD!)

Bottom line for me: no TesT (testosterone), no cancer! [prostate cancer grows due to testosterone. Get rid of testosterone and prostate cancer stops growing (hopefully)]. Simple test PSA = 0 (zero) TesT = 0 (near zero). To be sure, annual PSMA to see if it is spreading. Keep PSA = 0 and I should be good to go. Won't die of PSa (but due to something else.

Treatment is for lifetime = Stop treatment and PSA goes up, TesT goes up and PSa grows.

Please note: I do NOT like doctors (from childhood). My position is I break, and they fix. So, I am not one to try and figure out or listen to all the 'doctor talk' (IE: details, symptoms, side effects, blah, blah, blah. Just take a TV commercial for a new medicine: someone talking so fast you can't hear what all they are saying but one, "...may cause death!" Now why in the world would anyone want to take anything! ME? I just find doctors I trust and let them do what they need to do to fix me. (They have forgotten more than I will ever know!) In my case: I am very diligent in following treatments protocols. As a result, I have good results.

Will send prayers your way! (Not sure if the big guy listens to me, but I do send a lot of noise his way!) And I wish y'all all the best in your journey!

[j-o-h-n in reply to HotRod4321]

Hey HotRod, next time..... tell us what you think.......🤡

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[Cygnus52]

The type of full body MRI much in the news cannot pick up micro metastases. I've had three of them for general health screenings , for which they can be very useful (but expensive).

[tsim]

MR whole body imaging has been shown to be virtually ineffective in detecting any metastases, much less micro. Another consideration is that MR techniques are not one size fits all. Every area you wish to image has a different technique sequence, timing, pulse type and sequence weighting, many need different contrast enhancement. I've heard they're OK at visualizing bulging lumber discs, but you can do that with a $75 x-ray, you don't need to pay $5K, and insurance will probably cover.

[Adlon57]

Yes had a full body MRI my Schwannomatosis NF3 wanted to check up on my "cadaver" for the effects of various schwannomas/benign tumours I've had over the 50 years I've had the bl###y condition, I was "diagnosed" with Prostate Cancer in June 2022 and went through 20 radiation sessions, my specialist and myself were very confident I did not have PC, the hormone decapetyl SR injections reacted severely with my osteoporosis on my rib cage structure, I had the full body MRI done just before an official all clear in November 2023, the MRI proved to show no lasting effects on my 'poor' battered rib cage, free of PC free of long terms reactions of AZ covid vaccines [3 years] left arm, after that colouful period, the rib cage is probably the worst off at present🙄 if that is any help?

[Oatmeal2]

Thank you. 😊