WORDS AND THOUGHTS

[Lrv44221]

People rarely want advice.

They want empathy.

They don't want to hear about you.

They want to be heard....................Being an empath myself, (physical emotional and intuitive) I understand and am here to listen to you.

💜💜💜

[Tall_Allen]

People want advice from people capable of offering sound advice.

People also certainly want to be heard and acknowledged by others they respect and who respect their wishes. Listening is more important than being a self-styled "empath."

I often tell patients that they don't have to like their doctors, as long as the doctor knows his shit and listens to what the patient wants.

[Lrv44221 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Yes sounds good. I was just at my neighbor's whose husband in the hospital is doing poorly. I walked there to listen to her.........

[maggiedrum in reply to Tall_Allen]

I respect, listen, and try to learn from your advice and information presentation. Listening is an important and valued skill/capability in all human to human interactions. It does NOT preclude a "self-styled empath" from being a good listener, and in some cases a good advisor. Your comment seemed to try and discount being an empath. (see my last comment)

I wish my MO would have been a better listener, and indeed, a better informed advisor to me. He does exhibit a lot of empathy to me and his other patients. But he discounted my more than justified concerns.

I am definitely an empath by any definition/connotation of the term. I frequently, as in several times a day, literally choke up about people and groups facing issues beyond their control. That also includes animals, whether pets or wild. It has only grown "worse", if you consider it a bad thing. It is part of my day to day life.

I do not use it as a reason or encouragement to give advice to others unless I think that I might meet your qualifications for being suitable to give advice. I find it does help me, personally, in my own way, to try to be a good listener. Everyone's "moccasins" are different, as in "walk a mile in my moccasins" before you give advice you aren't "qualified" to give and in many cases just should not even if do miss that subjective qualification list.

I am often given advice by some on this forum, many times in private messages, that I really don't want or need. I try to make up my own mind as to whether I can use or respect that advice. Even then, I recognize that much of that is driven by excellent intentions. I seem to have less empathy for those, even on here, who continue to push therapies that I don't think have any merit. I still try to understand that this is life or death to even those and they are trying to improve their chances of survival. I have to have empathy for those even as I discount their "unqualified" advice.

I'm could certainly be accused of being too sensitive to how "self-styled empath" was stated. But it did hit a nerve with me in the way it was. It could have been stated differently in a less charged manner.

[Tall_Allen in reply to maggiedrum]

You seem to misunderstand the terms. Empathy means sharing the same feelings of another person. Humans all have empathy for other humans to varying degrees. We want to laugh when others laugh, cry when others cry, feel love for others who love us, etc. Neuroscientists have identified "mirror neurons" in the brain that enable us to feel what others feel to some extent. Mirror neurons only operate when we encounter other people face-to-face. For that reason, empathy doesn't operate on the internet. Now that covid is winding down, I am re-instituting my support groups in person, which is much better.

Unless one is a sociopath, we are also all capable of sympathy and compassion - feeling sadness for others' misfortunes. If you "choke up about people and groups facing issues beyond their control" you are expressing sympathy, not empathy.

There is no such thing as an "empath," other than in sci-fi. Empathy is part of being human -- not a superpower.

[maggiedrum in reply to Tall_Allen]

 T_A, I hope the mods will allow my little response since that have allowed yours. I still am awed the level of your knowledge about prostate cancer. I respect that. I don't think you have a good basis for making any scientific, or other, strong statements about psychology or psychiatry other than from a layman's perspective.

 "Sympathy, compassion, pity, empathy all denote the tendency, practice, or capacity to share in the feelings of others, especially their distress, sorrow, or unfulfilled desires.  Sympathy is the broadest of these terms, signifying a general kinship with another's feelings, no matter of what kind:  in sympathy with her yearning for peace and freedom; to extend sympathy to the bereaved."

"Empathy most often refers to a vicarious participation in the emotions, ideas, or opinions of others, the ability to imagine oneself in the condition or predicament of another:  empathy with those striving to improve their lives; to feel empathy with Hamlet as one watches the play."

These are definitions/interpretations of the two from one source. I'm not sure what gives you the right or capability to decide what I feel, and whether it is sympathy and/or empathy. I do imagine myself in the condition or predicaments of others. I am not qualified to objectively decide but I do know that my background, life experiences, and general observations give me empathy to many others. E.g. I can be empathetic with others who have prostate cancer, and what they are going through, since I also have to deal with prostate cancer. I also have sympathy for their plight and those of the homeless, in general. Except that I was also homeless for a short time after high school, trying to support myself while unable to afford to pay for my college expenses.

"Empath". In psychology, empaths (from Ancient Greek: ἐμπάθ (εια), romanized : e̓mpáth (eia); IPA: / ˈɛm.pæθ /) are people who have a higher than usual level of empathy, called hyperempathy. [1] While objective empathy level testing is difficult, tests such as the EQ -8 have gained some acceptance as tests for being empathic.

I have considerable experience with the difficulties of mental health. It is an unfortunate situation in my life. The FACT that I choke up when I have overwhelming empathy for someone is real - for me. It is NOT science fiction. You sir are not qualified to be stating that it is a term in science fiction (of which I have been a life long fan but which is clearly compartmentalized in my head). I was trained in science and excelled in biochemistry in school. That I choke up is not because I am a sociopath nor am I a deluded sci-fi nut.

I dreamed of going into neuroscience when I was a senior in my BS Chem studies. I had chosen Wright-McGill as a suitable place to go for graduate level studies in neuroscience. I try to keep aware of many advances in neuroscience. You are well studied on that as well, in some ways. I don't think you are on the empathetic spectrum as you definitely are more on the science part rather than the psychology side. You are very well informed on the science of cancer, especially prostate cancer. It sounds like you are a medical doctor. I have considerable experience with psychologists, medical doctors, and psychiatrists. I have some basis to make these comments. I have been in treatment for my mental healthy issues for almost a decade now and have suffered from my issues my entire life. ButI tend to be an analytical person so have been very interested in the scientific basis for therapy and understanding.

The studies about "mirror neurons" have led to theories that they are the underlying scientific explanation for empathy are just that - theories. There is still much to learn about how the brain and neurons actually cause psychological experiences and it is controversial in the extreme. I wish there would be a better scientific explanation about the causes, which might lead to better treatment of, depression. But it eludes those who are in the field. The impact of lowering testosterone was unknown for a long time and even still it is is grossly understood by many practicing MO's. I know that from experience. Newer studies have shown a strong correlation. But there is still no scientific studies showing a mechanism for that. That does not mean it is science fiction.

You're saying that empaths are science fiction shows the lack of understanding that you have about the subject. And is offensive.

[Tall_Allen in reply to maggiedrum]

Here is the New Oxford American dictionary definitions:

Sympathy: feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune: example: they had great sympathy for the flood victims.

Empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of another

See the difference?

According to those definitions, when you state:"you "choke up about people and groups facing issues beyond their control" you are expressing sympathy, not empathy. Your own words "give me the right and capability."

If you feel empathy as well, you didn't offer a good example.

All human are empathetic to some extent - arguably, less if you are "on the spectrum."

I never said that you choke up "because I am a sociopath." I said that sociopaths have a mental illness in which they are devoid of sympathy. Read it again.

If you believe you are more empathetic than most people, that is your belief, which (lacking objective proof) you are free to believe. You have no idea how empathetic I am, and I have no idea how empathetic you are. I'll take your word for it.

The idea of "an empath" is a sci-fi trope. It is not offensive. As used in sci-fi (e.g., Deanna Troi on Star Trek), empaths detect what others are feeling. It is not just sympathy (as you give examples of from your own experience), it is a super-human ability to sense what another person is feeling - not just sadness or anxiety, but all feelings. If you believe you have that superpower, there is no way I know of to prove it, so I'll take your word.

[Teacherdude72 in reply to Tall_Allen]

TA; you expressed, in better words than I would have, the difference between sympathy and empathy that many do not understand. Very well done sir.

[Lrv44221]

this was written by the holistic psychological association sorry I did not get that in.........

Im so poor with anything technologically.

[Lrv44221]

I believe and empath is a god listener......Just my thoughts

[Tall_Allen in reply to Lrv44221]

Empathy means feeling what someone else feels.

[Cactus297 in reply to Tall_Allen]

A close friend told me she could not feel what I was feeling when my son was diagnosed with PC because he sons don’t have PC . I agree with her. That did not mean however that she did not care. I agreed with her.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Cactus297]

That's a perfect example of the difference between empathy and sympathy!

[Hidden]

Deanna Troi was an empath.

[MrG68 in reply to Hidden]

Yes, she was only half Betazoid. Her mum was a telepath!

[j-o-h-n]

I don't need empathy, I need a good shoulder to cry on............

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 06/07/2023 1:24 PM PST

[GoBucks in reply to j-o-h-n]

I need ice cream. 2 scoops of course!

[Seebs9 in reply to j-o-h-n]

I need my pluvicto to beat this beast back

[addicted2cycling in reply to j-o-h-n]

I've always felt that shoulders are good to cry on but a good hug can penetrate deep into ones body providing inner strength and healing.

[lokibear0803 in reply to j-o-h-n]

I need my own talk show.

[Cactus297 in reply to j-o-h-n]

I find it difficult to cry on a shoulder that doesn’t know what you’re going through. The members of this forum do know the pain and we’re all here for each other. I find it easier to relate to others who have PC or who have someone close to them who has PC.

[Ramp7]

I can only speak for myself. I am selfish and come here to gain knowledge. SOC works for a certain percentage of the population. The numbers prove that. Then there is the rest of us that have to figure out what to do.

[Formosan]

I concur with Tall_Allen. I join this net to get advise and also to hear others' experience of how they cope with the disease so that I can learn. If I seek empathy, my church and close friends can provide that to me. Empthy from a known person makes more sense.

[maggiedrum in reply to Formosan]

Empathy is not something that you need to cultivate to fix anything or fill a hole you have. It is a feeling that an individual has, whether real or perceived, and doesn't need church counseling to develop. In my case I have too much empathy much of the time. The MOs I have met and seen professionally admit that they neither study nor usually understand and certainly don't attempt to advise on, psychological issues. But no need to add fuel to this bonfire. We can all disagree about anything.

[anonymoose2]

I was in downtown Santa Fe New Mexico a year ago and has many shops that cater to holistic-medicine attempts to treat both the mind and the body by using crystals and elixirs from plants. Mother Earth healing properties. How this came to my mind was your statement of “ empath is a god listener“ as it was pretty close to what a read on a coffee mug, “empathy is a god listener”

I’ve searched this site and can’t find anything related to crystal healing.

Many swear by food intake, minerals, Vitamins with regular exercise and a few Chinese medicines but nothing on healing crystals.

Do you Lrv44221 have some thoughts on this in your experiences?

[Lrv44221 in reply to anonymoose2]

Thank You for asking. For me, I believe that BELIEF SHIFTS BIOLOGY, so I think everyone has to choose what they think/believe is best for them. I do have a healing crystal next to my bed. Does it work? I don't know. I just like it.....lol 💜💜💜

[anonymoose2 in reply to Lrv44221]

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

Kind regards

[Lrv44221 in reply to anonymoose2]

👍

[dhccpa]

I like good advice and appreciate it.

[Teacherdude72]

When you visit a Cancer patient or their caregiver the most important thing to do is listen.

One big way to support is to listen, quietly listen. Quietly because it gives the Cancer patient space to fill in the silence.

If they are quiet be quiet with them, if they talk then listen to them, if they laugh then laugh with them, if they cry then cry with them. It should always be about them.

[Lrv44221 in reply to Teacherdude72]

First, I apologize for my poorly copied thoughts from The Holistic Psychological Association, and secondly, I appreciate all your thoughts. This situation we are in is different for many/each of us. For me I am having a tough time with so many things, and I appreciate all of you. I hope to write something that is more useful, in the future. 💜

[Teacherdude72 in reply to Lrv44221]

You are absolutely correct in saying we are all different. In how we feel, react, support, treatments, accessibility, and most important Attitude!Given all you are going through apology is not necessary.

Be well. Stay positive in attitude

Live your life, it's the only one you have.

[Lrv44221 in reply to Teacherdude72]

thank you

[j-o-h-n]

BTW They're spelled differently....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 06/14/2023 11:09 PM DST

[Lrv44221 in reply to j-o-h-n]

😊