At this juncture I’d have to say yes. My psa has been rising for the last 6 months. With no changes other than deep meditation, mindset work and stress management, my PSA dropped from 29 to 25. This is the first drop in 7 months. The met pain is gone and despite the Zytiga and firmagon SE’s, I wouldn’t even know I have terminal cancer.
I’m not ready to go on some guru tour but there’s clearly something to this stuff. This cynical gen Xer is now a believer. Let’s see what next month brings.
Mindfulness was encouraged by Jon Kabat Zinn for cancer patients to reduce pain. There is a lot of literature on its usefulness. I practice it too.
That's great! We need every bit of help we can find fighting this awful disease.
I noticed that you are taking prednisone and you might be able to give your mind power some additional help by switching over to Dexamethasone as a steroid. It worked for me and has for many others. There was clinical trial done to prove it.
Good to hear of your progress with meditation. It re-leaves stress, and provides a calming effect on the body. I do a type of meditation imaging. It great.
Magnus
Great question and one I ponder often. My wife and I were just talking about this. I went back to look at all my scans and noticed that I had minimum 14 bone mets at dx. I now have 6, no new mets and 5 of the 6 are shrinking. I've done nothing but combo therapy the last 18mo or so. I am CR and up until today my psa was almost dbling and I was on a waitlist for a cutting edge trial. Your guess is as good as mine, but If it IS INDEED playing a part in this progress, I'm sure as hell gonna stay the course until I'm convinced its not or run out of money. I'm naturally cynical about non-evidence based anything, but I have terminal cancer. So being closed off to anything that could possibly keep me here a little longer for my young boys and wife, is a luxury I can no longer afford.
Thank you for the question
Hi
Like you I am young fighter and infact younger than you starting at 41 and now 43. How much I know what you mean by saying we dont have the luxury to close off anything that may help us staying longer and meditation definitely not going to harm. A prolific 'nonbeliever' all my short life, I already started seeing benefits of meditation in last 2 years, calmed my mind, handled my emotion so well that I become a pleasantly man even without testosterone and daily fight and loss of so many things.
But still I feel I am not able to derive the full effect of deep meditation as clearly I don't know the path to do it. I didn't find great internet material.
My humble request, will you please share me your path that you traverse? I badly need guidence in this regard.
Thanks!!
🙏🙏
I like this saying....sit, stay, heal......i try for 16 min of controlled breathing in a darkend rm.....
Soumen, here is what works for me. Perhaps it will work for you. It is a combo of 3 or 4 styles of Meditation simplified for me. It should only take 15 minutes
A quiet space is important. Feet flat on the floor/ground. I prefer outside and dress for warmth and comfort. I call it 3/5/7. In thru your nose, hold, slowly out thru the mouth. 7 is when the healing begins. Mostly, I close my eyes, but occasionally I will open them to focus on one thing, often how the light hits the branches of a tree (we have 12 Palm trees in our yard here in St Pete which catch the light at many angles
In 3 seconds, hold 3 seconds, out 3 seconds. 3x. This just to get flow started
In 5 sec, hold 5 sec (feel your heartbeat, listen to birds, or planes in distance, winds thru trees), out slowly for 5 seconds. 5x. This will edge you into a more relaxed state.
Now 7 is key. Where healing begins. Also where I create my own Mantra. In 7 sec, hold 7 (my Mantra is: Wake up my beautiful mind, wake up the White blood cells and Killer T cells to find the cancer cells and destroy them, or everything is cellular. Everything happens at a cellular level, heal the cells, strengthen the mitochondria, and destry the PCa cells), my Daughters is simply ( in with the good air, out with the bad). Create your own 7 sec Mantra. During this time, you may hear a chirping bird way off in the distance, a distant lawn mower, your hearing will be amplified, slowly out for 7 seconds (sometimes I keep going on exhale for longer to get it all out, which will lead to a deeper inhale. 7x.
If I am feeling it, I may just relax and add a few more. I then send out Blessings to my Wife, our children (now in their 30’s), our 2 dogs, my Parents and wife's Parents as we were close, all 4 in Heaven. Grandparents, childhood friends, those that I know are struggling. When Im finished, I open my eyes and find a different space, as if hours may hae passed. I stand up and stretch with a big inhale, my hands above my head, a big long exhale. I feel refreshed, and rejuvenated. I hope this, or a version of this will work for you. Does it work? Yes, it all works. If we throw enough at this crazy PCa disease, hopefully we will have an extended life. Every year we see new Phase-III Trials, and new therapies.
All my best to you and yours, Mike
Awesome... I am going to add this to my tool box. Thanks for sharing Spyder.
Hi Mike, thank you so much for sharing this. I will definitely put this to use. Thanks again....
Hey S79! Damn and I thought I was a bit of a unicorn. It's safe to say that this is no longer an older mans disease that we will die of something else before the cancer kills us. I was recently in Washington DC lobbying for more funding and support for PC and that was a major theme of my "sales pitch." I believe it's now 1 in 400 men under 50 getting dx while the American Cancer Society's web page still reports: "About 6 cases in 10 are diagnosed in men who are 65 or older, and it is rare in men under 40. The average age of men when they are first diagnosed is about 66." Probably overdue for an update.
My heart goes out to you, this is a horrible disease no matter what age you get it, but as you and I know first hand, there's a whole other gear when you get this shit in your 40's. I'm so sorry, I know your struggle and appreciate your will to live.
I've done a deep dive on meditation techniques that go beyond mindfulness. I have bone mets in the typical L1 and T12 vertebrae in my spine that were causing so much pain that i couldn't get out of a chair. Opioids for one reason or the other were not working for me. I hit the limit with tramadol and basically 800mg of Ibuprofen was the only pain management solution my dr's could come up with. I was desperate so I started researching breathing and meditation techniques specifically for pain management. I came across a fascinating fellow named Wim Hof.
wimhofmethod.com/practice-t...
For the sake of brevity, there's no right or wrong way to meditate. Many people make the mistake of fighting the thoughts coming into their head and then thinking they are unable to properly meditate. Meditation in small part is letting the unconscious voices into your mind and dealing with them directly. I will share with you my routine which is a cumulation of all I've learned and what works for me:
-alarm goes off; do not hit snooze. WIN
-make bed. WIN
-do pushups. WIN
-Big glass of Lemon water to hydrate the brain. WIN
-Breakfast. WIN
Now I have 5 Wins before I even get to Meditation which puts me in positive motion.
-Meditation (20 min)
Dark, Private area, I ask Alexa to play Meditation music, sometimes I'll wear an eye mask.
1st song: Stretching and breathing.
-touch toes and hold
-4 count in through nose, 8 count out through mouth
-kneeling, stretch arms out and continue breathing.
2nd song: Thankfulness
-from any comfortable position while continuing your breathing; say out loud all the things you are grateful for. For example: "i am grateful for waking up this morning, i am grateful for air...." DO NOT SKIP THIS!
3rd song: Expanding Comfort
-this is the final part of my meditation where I will inhale through my nose and hold for 30sec, on the bottom of the exhale i will hold for 15 sec. Repeat this pattern to find your limit doubling the time each round. 60sec in inhale, 30 sec on exhale, 90 sec on inhale, 45 sec on exhale. It's perfectly fine to take breaths in between each rotation. Make sure your comfortable before you start the next rotation.
Through this technique you will be able to force yourself to expand your ability to handle stress. The further your able to go, the deeper your resilience will be. Keep in mind the world record for holding your breath is 24 min. What I've found beneficial from this particular technique is the ability to control your feeling of dying(suffocating) The first few times I tried it, i would start to panic the second I started gasping for air. Once I told myself I was fine, I could breath whenever I need to and calmed my physiological response, I was able to go much further. I'm currently at 2min on the inhale and 60sec on the exhale. Another helpful tool while doing this is to imagine something profound. I imagine that i am a diver swimming through caves to rescue my children. I imagine that I don't know the next spot I can come up for air, but if I don't get to my children they will die.
The cold shower is a work up to. I've only done it a handful of times. you can't debate it in your head, you just have to jump in. I'll scream through the whole thing which seems to mask the shock a bit. I can't tell you why it works, but it's magical.
I typically start my days like this, but when life throws me off, it's important that I don't beat myself up for missing a day here and there. The ultimate purpose of meditation for me, is to change the dialogue in my head by brain washing myself with better and kinder dialogue. Most of us would knock someone out if they talked to us the way we talk to ourselves. I've learned that our cave man brains dominate our thoughts. It's the part of our brain that keeps us alive when faced with danger. (fight flight response.) The problem is, we are no longer cave men and don't need to be in a constant state of fear. When our brains are free of fear and anxiety our bodies are in repair mode. The longer we can keep our bodies in repair mode, the better we will fair with letting nature do what it does.....keep us alive and thriving.
Best of luck my young warrior. I hope this is helpful. PM me anytime.
One more thing.... During my thankfulness phase, i will thank cancer for all it has shown me but I don't need you any more...and repeat over and over again "there is no cancer in my body." Some days I'll even write it 100x when i do my journaling. It sounds weird, but you get what you focus on as they say.
This is so awesome... Thank you brother!
I can feel the palpable passion and compassion with which you have composed this for your dear brother, thank you so much mate, in last 2 yrs I have done things which I have never dreamt, so may I will be able to create a version of this and apply, now I understand what deep meditation means. Grate fullness and cold shower are easier picking, will try them immediately.
thanks again for this...
please provide some written material that you used to guide yourself.
Schwah
The Power of the mind cannot be underestimated. There is a great documentary called “HEAL”:on this exact topic.
They say we only use 10% of our minds power. What if, through Meditation, you tap into more and more of your minds power.
One of my Mantra’s during the 3rd and deepest phase of my Meditation is: “Wake up my beautiful mind. Wake up and help to heal our body. Wake up the White Blood Cells and Killer T Cells to recognize this Cancer, and destroy these bad cells”.
Does it work? It all works. Maybe all in unison, we can make progress toward a longer, higher quality of life.
Mike
To say we use only 10% of our mind's power, we would need to know what its full capacity is. I wonder how that was measured.
Just tried the 3-5-7. How many reps of each do you?
3x 3, 5x 5, 7x 7. If at that point, you wish to continue longer, simply continue. At some point you are not really counting, you just know from experience what it feels like to inhale 7 thru your nose, hold for 7 while repeating your Mantra and listening to the sounds around you, and off inthe distance, then a long slow exhale thru the mouth for 7.
If you scroll up above No Stone Unturned, its all there. Mike
Jung said it best. Those who look outward, dream. Those who look inward, awake. Then we can also talk about the faith of a mustard seed moving mountains to the sea. Do not underestimate the power of the mind. If we can believe it, we can achieve it.
There is a great book that describes the science behind positive thoughts (and negative thoughts). The brain is an incredible tool that once we learn to access, we each can do more than we thought possible (growth mindset).
The book is The Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton
It's so true. I do not consider myself a religious person, but when you take a look at what almost all religions/belief systems have in common, and strip away all of the marketing, control mechanisms and the geo-political business of religion, it's easy to recognize and respect the fundamental message and power behind it. With that said; with great power comes great responsibility. Sadly, that's the part that society both now and then, can't seem to work out.
Well, science will back up your findings! Check this post out...what you think, how you think, matters! Good luck...
Of course, that is a great book. However, it is nice when a book like Biology of Belief can give you the science behind how our mind works and how we develop our beliefs based on experiences when we are young, and how we can change them. I've developed a very positive, growth mindset and it has served me well as I navigate my PC journey. And everyday I thank the man above for this ability.
In the house and in the vehicles SiriusXM
Tune into spa. It is absolutely a godsend for relaxation and meditation.
tried the spa music for the first part of my walk yesterday and it helped
Thanks for the recommendation
Sometimes they play some spacey tunes I don’t care for (Space Odyssey) but majority of the time it’s very pleasant. Thanks for the update.
Thank you for your post. It, and the thoughtful responses above, all come at the perfect time for me. I appreciate your willingness to share your practice.
I have meditated for a long time, and I have gotten lax in my practice at times, but I always return to meditation and focused breathing. However, since my last Elligard injection (I'm currently on 4-month intervals and this was 7th go around), I have not been able to trust my own thoughts in the morning. My body also seems to be rebelling, and my SE's dominate some days. I walk or lift daily, and that helps to moderate my SE's, but doesn't seem to be helping my emotions. I recently compared my experience at my morning meditation this way, "trying to calm my thoughts was like trying to close up an umbrella in a wind storm". Whoof, here comes a gust of thoughts (or emotions, or physical SE's) to rip the thought umbrella inside out.
The docs are going to change my anti depressant (from Zoloft to Effexor), and I'm lobbying to get my Elligard injections on a more frequent basis (hopefully to decrease the flood of Leuprolide in my body over the first few weeks following the 4-month dose). They don't seem to know if any of these will help, but we're throwing pasta noodles on the ceiling to see what sticks.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on your own practices, this exchange was extremely encouraging.
You don’t need to suffer. Ask your dr to prescribe you estrogen gel, that will take care of the brunt of the hot flashes. It’s not an either or option as I once thought. I had to go back on the shot in order to qualify for a trial and am still on the gel. One thing Is for sure, there’s no peace when you’re on fire 24 hours a day. Hang in there Carlos.
Thanks No Stone
So far my Drs (5 of them) have refused to prescribe estrogen gel. I am eating a lot of foods with naturally occurring estrogen, but its obviously not enough. I'm ready to go outside the system if I have to in order to get some relief.
find a new dr. QOL is as important as staying alive. I had to buy the first couple prescriptions but eventually I got insurance to cover it. There’s also a gentleman on this forum that may be able to get you some. It was a life saver for me.
I'm with Kaiser in a small market, so my options in plan are limited. I will get more assertive. I have another new oncologist and I'll run it by him.
I only have a passing familiarity with Shikantaza. However, to me your posts reflect your ability to focus on being and doing, and deep empathy and caring for others. As I respect others' expertise, I also respect yours.
thanks big guy … I respect you as well. I could easily say the same thing about your posts brother.
❤️❤️❤️
Generous as always
So true! Praise God Divine Mercy brother! 🙏✝️👍
Of course. There's a reason that cleverer people than us decided to standardize testing against placebos you know. If the placebo effect wasn't real, they wouldn't use it.
Think of any day. You're stressed, in a bad mood and your dog just died. Your cortisol goes through the roof, you're in a flight state, you can't digest your food, bp up 30% and more. It's going to have an impact on you're immune system. You'll also probably have poor sleep and will have a cumulative effect the next day. There's a reason that people get cold sores when they're stressed you know.
Now think of the same day but you avoid all of that. You watch something funny that makes you laugh until your belly aches. Some friends come around and you have a great time and a lovely meal. Do you think your cortisol is the same? Are you going to get that cold sore? I don't think so.
If anything, positive thinking will at the very least avoid some of the bad things you'd otherwise experience.
Obviously negative thinking works the other way.
Both are a form of mind over matter.
Edit: I'm not religious in any way, but this is definitely a potential benefit of being religious.
Well said.
You need to write a book brother Kal.... Seriously! 🙂👍🙏✝️💚
you’d probably be surprised at how many people have said that to me. The entire scope of my life experiences would probably make interesting reading . They are vastly more involved and complex than anything I have mentioned on the group. My close friends have literally “ all “ told me that. Yayahahahaya Lotsa my “ lives “ need to stay where they are …😂😂😂😂
Thanks Kal. I'll research Shikantaza. Unfortunately, at the present point my monkey mind would pelt me with its crap until I ran screaming from the meditation room.
I have family members with serious substance abuse issues, so I have worked a 12 step program which required self inventory and amends. It wasn't fun, but it was liberating. I'm sure I would benefit from taking a deeper look using Shikantaza. It might be just the ticket.
In the past I have achieved a deep meditative state while waiting at airports and at Kaiser's medical facilities. That's beyond me now, but I will give that mindset permission to begin to grow again in me. I had a good meditation session earlier today, and to further clear my mind I doubled up and walked 7 miles today. So there's a couple of victories already.
Side note: If I had my old libido I could look at a blank wall and picture every Playboy and Oui centerfold from my younger years. I can still see them, but its just not the same.
Does it work?...........I'm walking proof it does.......Just ask that witch who I first married.....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Thursday 03/23/2023 11:12 PM DST
I'm envious. Enjoy the ride.
Diet is definitely a factor. With few exceptions, I am a pescetarian. I eat one low carb slice of high fibre bread a day and almost no white foods except califlower. For occasional treats my wife makes me a whole grain banana bread, and I have given up alcohol since my last injection started causing me fits.
Post diagnosis I lost 60 lbs, but over the holidays I put 10 lbs back on. I've been wondering if that made a difference, but my SE's seem to be getting more intense with each succesive Elligard shot.
Thanks for sharing your experience
Want to hear something incredibly bizarre? Ever since treatment, I can’t get drunk anymore. Talk about salt on the wound. I have no idea why, but my guess is it’s a result of something with my chemistry and this hormone therapy. I am still curious if anyone else has experienced that.
Ty. Nice to know I’m not completely crazy. Lol
I wonder if anyone has ever researched this.
thanks for sharing. It’s absolutely true where the mind goes the body follows
If you get a chance read my post:
BELIEF SHIFTS BIOLOGY 🦊
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