Recent discussion with Dr. Denmeade. BAT

[Ramp7]

urotoday.com/video-lectures...

[MateoBeach]

The good news here is that Dr. Denmeade continues to expand trials and advocacy for individual off-trial use of BAT supervised by their own MO. That is a great step forward. He explicitly invites CRPC patients’ doctors to email him personally for case review and advice.

The caveats for him include having become castrate resistant on ADT. That is what fits with his current theoretical framework, not something that has been verified. And there must be no painful metastasis that could worsen with testosterone flare.

For those here who meet these criteria and are interested in trying BAT should ask their MOs to take him up on the invitation. Including those in other countries that have no access to current trials.

On the other hand, he is not open to considering any form of BAT use in HSPC. Even though we have many examples of it being very successful prior to castrate resistance, myself included. Paul /MB

[Ramp7 in reply to MateoBeach]

I had the same take away as you. Very interesting step forward.

[Spyder54]

Ramp7, Thanks for posting. Good to see BAT gaining traction across the Country. It seems we are really on to something positive. If the results for HSPC Men lead to extended avoidance of CRPC, then we are really on to a quantum change! Mike

[ragnar2020]

Greeting Y'all & Yingsang directly,

BAT interests me a lot, but I'm not at the stage of treatment to try it yet. I've been reading and following its developments since I was dx in 2019.

To contribute a bit to the backstory, I have a close friend whose is a G9 who is presently using a form of BAT that was developed by Dr. Abe Morgentaler in Boston several years ago. sixteen years ago, my friend had an RARP in Boston. BCR followed within three years, so he had RT also in Boston and then was placed on ADT using Lupron.

He did not do well with Lupron, and sought an alternative treatment. He ended up being treated by Dr. Morgentaler. He began receiving high doses of testosterone. The high doses of T were inplanted every three months, but no ADT drug was introduced in between the testosterone injections. This protocol has continued until the present time.

Dr. Morgentaler retired, and my friend found another urologist in the Boston area to provide the quarterly implantation of testosterone for him. Fortunately, my friend is still alive sixteen years post diagnosis, RARP and RT.

So, I too am very interested in the use of BAT for men who have not had ADT nor chemo but have undergone surgery or some other primary treatment of their PCa, then suffered BCR, have undergone RT (mine was with proton beam at UPenn) and are now awaiting another recurrence.

I'm inclined to try LU-177 either through a trial if I can find one that will admit me when my future recurrence occurs - and I expect that this will happen eventually - or privately at an overseas facility - if the FDA has still not approved LU-177 as SOC for men who are HSPC and have not undergone ADT nor chemo.

It is understandable that the PCa pharma business model is slow to adopt an alternative to ADT when this form of drug treatment has for many years extended life for men with PCa, and is a lucrative form of treatment for urologists to use for their patients.

But, some of us - myself included - have conflicting illnesses such as coronary artery disease and congestive heart failure which make ADT a dangerous alternative treatment. I hope that Novartis' clinical trials continue to progress promptly and allow for FDA approval and the PCa care community to offer their theranostic treatments to men earlier in their treatment protocols instead of waiting until the "hail-mary" stages of the disease at the back-end.

[Ramp7 in reply to ragnar2020]

Would you have the name of this Urologist?

[noahware in reply to Ramp7]

I believe it may be Stephen J. Eyre, MD, but I have contacted his office and can assure you he will NOT administer high-T therapy without getting the approval and cooperation of the MO that is currently treating you.

My assumption is that he inherited Dr. Morgenthaler's patient after Dr. M retired, and he continued the preexisting T therapy because, and ONLY because, that therapy had already been initiated by Dr. M and had proven to be successful for THIS patient. The risk and liability had already been addressed with the prior initiation of treatment.

So this is not something Dr. Eyre will do for the PC population at large, upon request. You must first find an MO who agrees to take you on as a patient and is then willing to let you try high-T. Who, and where, are these MOs ?!?

[Blue-Mockingbird]

Thanks for the link. My husband will be starting BAT in January, I’ll share this with him.

[Justfor_]

Nature's ways are more universally applicable than short/limited sighted people can see. BAT takes the body to Testosterone extremes in an effort to wipe out the consequences of a time extended hormonal therapy. Right? Now, all of us here are old enough to know what a CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) is. It is the screen of our old TV set and our first computer monitor. But CRTs, obsolete today, had a weak spot. After a prolonged use they would get a permanent, yet irregular, tint that would smudge the picture. Well, CRT "BAT", more widely known as De-Gaussing, did the trick. One take away from this parallel: The oscillation must commence with extreme amplitude to be progrsively dumped to zero.

[Blue-Mockingbird]

He was approved for a BAT trial through his VA oncologist. She’ll be guiding and monitoring him

[noahware]

Dr. Bubley is also now retired.

[ragnar2020]

This is actually a world-wide trend caused IMHO by the Covid pandemic. Doctors, nurses and medical support staff found themselves defined as “essential workers,” and management told them to put on the PPE, get the vaccination and come into work. People said to themselves, “this is not the job that I trained to do” so, if possible, they are leaving. Real estate prices climbed, so many people pulled the ripcord, sold the nest-egg, pulled the kids outta private school and moved to warmer less stressful parts of the country. Hospitals are merging, in the UK, the nurses are striking and the Boris Johnson government has failed, and he’s gone too. Here, the hospitals are filling again with the increasing cases of Covid, flu and other ailments, and the lower paid workers are no longer there to fill the vacancies. It is no wonder that older docs are checking the 401K and thinking about early retirement. A recessional meltdown looks likely. Happy holidays.

[Ramp7]

My regular MO has 2300 patients on file. The majority of which happen to be prostate cancer.

[cesces]

"He explicitly invites CRPC patients’ doctors to email him personally for case review case review and advice."

You could get a consult directly from him through your MO.

There is no substitute for professional intuition developed through lots of experience. Denmeade has as much direct and indirect experience on BAT as anyone on the planet.

[Ramp7 in reply to cesces]

I sent the video to my regular MO and the one at Dana Farber. Curious if I get a response.

[Ramp7 in reply to cesces]

I sent this video to my regular MO and after a little back and forth, he said if Denmeade agreed my situation met the criteria, he would follow the prescribed protocol. I have an appointment with him at John Hopkins next month.

[Ramp7]

Kamradt, Avon, CT

[Ramp7]

Do you have a link to the trial?

[Ramp7]

Make up a list of questions. I'll do my best for some answers, and report back. Jan. 12 appointment.

[Ramp7]

I'll put this is my notes, and bring with me.

[Ramp7]

I would like to ask him how fixed he is regarding cycle length?

[Scout4answers]

How do I contact Cena?

[Scout4answers]

Thanks Russ