Anyone using NDL for PCa? I'm seeing docs from all over being very enthusiastic about it.
Low Dose Naltrexone: Anyone using NDL... - Advanced Prostate...
Low Dose Naltrexone
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jtango
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with naltrexone: anyone using pain meds has to be “ aware “ to stay away from naltrexone . If you are taking any of the opiate or synthetics, a dose of naltrexone will “ instantly “ kill off your opiate buzz. Meaning , if you take it for pain ,the pain will return instantly and it will feel huge , at first. Naltrexone should also not be taken if you use alcohol sedatives or tranquilizers or some other similar drugs like tramadol. Always check with your pcp about using naltrexone.
If you have been using opiate pain meds long term, naltrexone will instantly block your opiates and put you into withdrawal. If your daily total dosages are in the 80-150+ milligram levels, it could mean a trip to E.R. , and possibly supervision from a rehab doctor. Naltrexone is used in combination with buprenorphine , it’s called suboxone . Its for managing opiate addictions. The buprenorphine eases cravings and the naltrexone ,( more powfully than naloxone ) blocks opioids as a powerful antagonist.
If any of this happens and filters back to your medical provider, it could mean months of bureaucratic drug mess with your providers and even suspension of your pain med prescriptions.
Just fyi
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in reply to Kaliber
Hey guy! I was told that it’s used to ween addicts off of opiates ? Is that true? I get it from the compounding pharmacy . It’s a Low dose 4.5 mgs , the only side effect for me ,are vivid dreams ....A lot of naturalpaths must prescribe this ? However, Im not on any pain meds…The only pharma that I’m on now is this low dose naltrexone.. I take a shit load of nutrients and mostly eat like rabbit . Very little meat .. although I love it all …the wife insures that I comply.. She runs this ship now that the El Capitan is clipped ..Happy holidays brother! 🙏❤️🕺
Kaliber in reply to
actually you are correct. Naltrexone is often used in combination with buprenorphine in a drug called suboxone, which is an important drug used by many detox centers .
Quitting an opiate addiction can be and often is a nightmare…. Suboxone is a major player in making that withdrawal way easier to accomplish.
Buprenorphine shortens detox time and lessens symptoms, clonidine is a main drug to lessen the massive anxiety , agitation and muscle aches during withdrawal. Often some addicts are put into a drug induced coma for a few days until the extremely ugly and difficult physical addiction subsides. getting off heavy opiate use can be well beyond “ do it yourself “ and need hospitalization and serious medical attention .
I’ve seen veterans at the V.A. Undergoing unintentional detox ( ran out of drugs and couldn’t find / buy more ) in triage before treatment … in horrendous agony , pain and anxiety … shivers, sweats, intense intolerable discomfort … really awful nightmarish situation. So bad that words hardly do it justice.
You should never use naltrexone with tranquilizers alcohol or sedatives , without consulting your pcp first. Bad things can happen with some of these combinations.
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This stuff acts entirely differently in low doses...I'm talking 5 mg or less.
roger that, I only wanted to warn potential users of the opiate cessation danger. I had to take it myself for months at a weight control clinic and I didn’t notice that it did anything to me , but I was supposedly given it in plain unmarked little bottles …. hard telling what was in those bottles lol. I hope it does do good things for you….. that it is very beneficial.
As usual, you should always discuss any medication or supplement you take with your medical care team , there can always be unanticipated issues or they may not want you to take it.
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It seems you're confusing LOW DOSE naltrexone with the full strength naltrexone given to addicts to numb the "high"..
The effects of LOW DOSE naltrexone are different from full strength. Full strength blocks endorphin receptors totally, around the clock. LDN blocks them for a short period of time, just long enough to signal the body that endorphins are missing and coaxing the production of a high dose of natural endorphins (a very simplified explanation of the LDN action.)
The action IS different. In my case it was a choice between an opioid drug for pain relief and trying LDN. Since starting LDN the need for any additional pain relief has disappeared.
Here are some of the changes LDN has made: such as relief from long (over 30 years) standing hip pain caused by inflammation, relief from radiation-caused bowel inflammation (that was causing rabbit-pellet size waste - since the radiation was concluded over 3 years ago), easing of "brain-fog" left over from ADT. Relief of long-standing shoulder pain caused by an ACL injury. One really noticeable change, I've more than doubled my exercise routines on my now daily gym visits. I've also lost 10 lbs since starting LDN. It's not clear if that loss is due to LDN, or increased gym activity, or a combination of both. It seems to be about 1lb/week. I have about 20 lbs more to go..
The side effects? Dreams are sometimes "vivid" (but I suspect what most people call "vivid" is simply the difference between remembering the dreams when I wake up and not remembering them. With LDN, I generally remember at least 1 dream per night, sometimes more..) I also usually wake about 4-6AM in the morning, about 3-4 hours after taking the LDN. It's very brief, and usually, I just turn over and go back to sleep. Sometimes I get up and pee, then back to sleep.
I'm taking 4.5mg/nightly. A typical addict dose is 50-100mg/daily.
Very interesting. Since naltrexone usually comes in 50 mg tablets, where do you get the 5 mg tablets?
Actually, I just saw where we shouldn't exceed 4.5 mg daily, and it should be taken at bedtime. It requires a prescription, so we need to find an agreeable doc.
I am understand, but there is not 4.5 mg dose provided by regular pharmacies, it seems it comes in 50 mg tablets
All of those are almost correct. Effective doses range from 0.1mg/daily to 6mg/daily. The most common dose appears to be 4.5mg/daily, and is "titrated" up - meaning you start lower, 1.5mg then work up after a week or two to 3.0mg, then after another period of time move to 4.5mg/daily.
It is frequently taken at bedtime because (1) the guy who discovered the effects LDN has on inflammation thought that the peak immune system activity takes place while sleeping. This hasn't held up to research - and some people don't like the "vivid dreams" so they successfully take it some other time each day. (2) It says so on the Internet so it must be true.
And yes - you need an agreeable MD. My GP is pretty open minded and I've been seeing him since he started practice 35 years ago, so we have a good relationship. He was at the point of prescribing an opioid pain medicine for the arthritic pain I had experienced for most of the 35 years. Due to some cardio issues and a bunch of stents (perhaps caused or made worse by ADT) - I can no longer take NSAIDs, which worked somewhat to relieve the pain (it would require multiple doses per day to fully relieve it - so I timed 2 doses daily for the time when relief was most needed.) acetaminophen wasn't hacking it.. and there was concern over liver functions.
I had read about LDN, and did some Dr. Googling on it - and thought it was worth a try. I passed on some of the URL's for papers I thought significant to my GP. He thought since side-effects are almost unknown with it - it was worth a try. I've been reporting back to him with my results.
So - if you have a good relationship with your GP - talk to him/her. If you see a pain specialist (which I did for a while, but he was a quack..) they will often prescribe LDN. Or you can go to one of the LDN Foundation websites and look for the list they have of cooperative MD's, and pharmacies that have a prescribing MD relationship they can refer you to (sort of like the MD's who prescribe Viagra over the phone..)
in reply to Kaliber
I might drink one beer on a blue moon . That’s it .. I’m glad that I never got on opiods or downers or speed . We are told that nicotine is the hardest addiction to break ? We also know that a hard core alky can die in withdraw. I knew an 77 yr old lady that drank a 1/5th of vodka per day .. her doc told her not to stop ,it could kill her ! Ouch 😳🤙🏽
Kaliber in reply to
yea … I’ve seen the naltrexone -booze warnings but don’t have personal experience on that. Prolly asking your pcp is best. Usually they say “ in moderation is OK “ is frequently the answer for that question…. Still being careful is best buddy. You are an amazing example of survivability here on the group. Whatever you are doing , it’s working. Can’t argue with success. ❤️❤️❤️
in reply to Kaliber
If I have a drink I’ll skip the naltrexone that night . Snow in the Sierra , rain in so cal..it’s coming to us tonight in snow . Whoohoo!The Peeps are acting like nutzs , it’s beginning to feel a lot like Christmas . Happy holidays compadre to you & the hammer! ❤️❤️✌️🙏
jtango in reply to
Yep, the full dose does just that, but low dose acts entirely differently. ..like a different substance altogether. There are some good YouTube presentations on it.
It's also important to point out - the full dose naltrexone ONLY has that effect on opioid based pain killers. Non-opioids such as acetaminophen or NSAIDs - LDN has no effect on AT ALL.
in reply to jtango
I’m on it! 🤙🏽👏👏👏
I’ve been on 4.5 mgs per night for over 7 years . Per a Nat oncologist. My wife is starting it for thyroid help .
I also heard good reports about Low Dosage Naltrexone (LDN) and have added it to my supplements recently. I am not taking pain meds of any kind so the issue that Kaliber notes is not relevant to my situation. However, I have been taking the LDN for only a month or so and have not noted any changes in my condition to date. I also started Lupron and Zytiga about a month ago and, quite to my surprise, am not noting any symptoms from this treatment either.
My husband has also been on Lupron for a month and just got blood work done. His PSA was 97 a month ago and now it is 6. We’re also eating vegan, alternating Artimisinin and Fenbendzole, high dose C, including an IV weekly, a ton of supplements and off label drugs… basically following theJane McClelland protocol.
in reply to jtango
I did hiigh C iv’s bi weekLy my first year . I think it helped to clear the pc tumors out of my urethra and bladder . I threw a lot of spaghetti againt the wall back then . I’m on the nutrients also . Almost 8 yrs . 😳
Hi jtango. I take Fenben as well and Janes book got me started on being my own advocate. What is the idea behind alternating Fenben and artimisinin?
I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just afraid to give him both at the same time. I'm seeing several protocols that look promising, but I don't know how they would react to each other, or Lupron. That's what I'm doing here...trying to learn from those who have been there.
I would have to wonder if the lack of Lupron and Zyriga "symptoms" (side-effects?) may be due to the LDN treatment. Certainly it's common to have side-effects from ADT (Lupron, et.al) treatments. It's uncommon to not have any. It will be interesting if this lack of side-effects continues.
When I was on Lupron, there was some additional pain points that started bothering me, but what the biggest effect was to existing pain - it became - and stayed even after the Lupron treatment was concluded - considerably worse. With LDN - it's now just gone, a non-issue.
If I sound enthusiastic about LDN - it's because in my case if made a significant improvement to my QOL. I'm back to doing things that I'd stopped doing due to pain. Is it a placebo sort of thing? I doubt it very much for the bowel inflammation - doctors had told me things to try which had no effect at all. I took the first dose of LDN (a VERY low dose - 1.5mg) and the next morning it was gone, and it's remained gone. I can't imagine any placebo effect that could cause that quick a relief from a long standing condition.
in reply to Don_1213
bravo!
A study of 1 person (for melanoma) and 6 (for prostate) really begs for any validity at all. The results are really questionable, if there are any real results at all. FWIW - I'm not taking LDN for PCa. I started taking it for pain relief to avoid having to start taking opioid pain relievers.
One of the issues LDN has with general acceptance is the claims that are made for it. It's like Marvel Mystery Oil - according to the claims - it fixes anything that's wrong with you.
The cancer claims are particularly troublesome since they tend to be anecdotal, backed by no valid studies.
Claims that do have studies behind them are primarily pain-relief type studies. The most convincing studies have been for various inflammatory diseases. I do have bookmarks to most of the studies I've found that seem to have any value - if anyone is really interested I probably could put together a list of URLs.
Here are a few to get you started:
How LDN works: ldnresearchtrust.org/how-lo...
Can LDN offer pain relief: medpagetoday.com/opinion/pa...
LDN and Cancer: tandfonline.com/doi/full/10...
LDN at Weill-Cornell: weillcornell.org/news/what-...
Weill-Cornell Podcast on LDN and chronic pain: radiomd.com/weillcornellreh...
Finally - LDN and long-term Covid: reuters.com/business/health...
After rereading your comment on it's use for overdoses - are you sure you aren't mistaking Naloxone with Naltrexone? It's not an uncommon mistake to make. Naloxone is the drug used to revive overdosed addicts. Naltrexone is not prescribed or used for that.
Particularly when you mention it in a nasal spray. Naltrexone is never used as a nasal spray. Naloxone is commonly used as a nasal spray. cdc.gov/stopoverdose/naloxo...
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