Transdermal low dose patch Estradiol for ADT S.E.

[runtrails]

Use it at all? start using it right away with Casodex/Lupron initial treatment or wait to see if you are having S.E. ? Does primary doc do this or ask RO/MO team?

[Tall_Allen]

Very few would take it with short-term adjuvant ADT. Why would you?

[runtrails in reply to Tall_Allen]

To mitigate some of the S.E of ADT. Hot flushes, Insulin response, weight gain and such

[Tall_Allen in reply to runtrails]

Exercise more! You are confusing the side effects of lifelong ADT use from short term adjuvant use. Probably you have taken bad advice because you are looking at a forum where most men have uncurable prostate cancer whereas you are pursuing curative therapy.

[runtrails in reply to Tall_Allen]

makes total sense..

[cesces in reply to Tall_Allen]

TA,

Exercise is always good, but are there any substantial downsides Estrodiol patches.

I used them. Didn't seem bad. Never had any hot flashes.

Why would you not want to use Estrodiol patches to counteract side effects from long term, short term or intermittent ADT.

I'm not saying there are not good reasons not to use it for side effects of ADT, but can you articulate what they are?

Thank you

[Horse12888 in reply to Tall_Allen]

I was assigned 24 mos ADT, adjuvant to IMRT. Hot flashes were horrible, constantly drenched in sweat, poor sleep, etc.

I don't understand why someone would want to suffer like this while there is a proven remedy with low SEs. What am I getting wrong?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Horse12888]

Nothing works 100% against hot flashes. Estrogen will cause gynecomastia. Acupuncture works and has zero side effects. Megace increases appetite and causes gynecomastia. Venlafaxine has few side effects. Oxybutynin gives dry mouth and low BP.

[TJGuy in reply to Tall_Allen]

How does acupuncture work against hot flashes? First time I've heard of this approach, is this an approved treatment and paid by insurance? How often? How long does it last? Does any acupuncturist knowhow to perform correctly?

[Tall_Allen in reply to TJGuy]

Idk how it works, I just know it does. Here are a few clinical trial references. Apparently, it's done in the ear:

journals.sagepub.com/doi/10...

ascopubs.org/doi/10.1200/JC...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

redjournal.org/article/S036...

canjurol.com/article.php?ID...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326...

canjurol.com/article.php?ID...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/244...

bjui-journals.onlinelibrary...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

bjui-journals.onlinelibrary...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/100...

journals.sagepub.com/doi/10...

[Tall_Allen in reply to Tall_Allen]

Idk of any insurance that covers acupuncture.

[treedown in reply to Tall_Allen]

Kaiser pays for 12 visits for me, or at least they did during radiation. I stopped because of covid and haven't gone back yet

[cesces]

Your Medical Oncologist should be in charge.

The most common use is to ameliorate ADT side effects using low doses.

It's not clear to me why you wouldn't use it for either long term, short term, or intermittent ADT.

Interestingly, some people use high dose estrogen as a stand alone treatment. Definitely not current standard of care. But some docs do it.

[cesces]

"no lack of opinionated people on this website"

LOLOLOL

[Ramp7]

I like your honest balanced replies.

[Ramp7]

I have had this discussion with my regular MO, he is on board with it. My other MO from a major cancer institution is not. But they are willing to discuss BAT. So difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[rsgdmd]

What does patch are you using? I'm on long term ADT & trying acupuncture for hot flashes with, maybe, a little improvement. Only had 2 sessions, but if doesn't help, E2 may be in my future. It's supposed to also help bone strength - any sign of that?

[London441]

Wholeheartedly agree with TA. To take something in anticipation of side effects you read or heard about makes no sense. You apparently run trails already. If you lift weights also, you are unlikely to have side effect issues. If you don’t lift you should start, ADT or not, simply on principle.

An opinion on this? You bet I do. I think those who struggle with side effects from ADT are predominantly sedentary, and likely have one or more co morbidities as a result. Those who don’t suffer are mostly either fit and strong or had very low testosterone to begin with or lost it due aging and the difference is too small to notice.

I had no issues at all. See how you do first.

[dhccpa]

i see OTC estrogen patches sold on Amazon. Are those different from what you get with Climara? Or Oestrogel that RonRon uses?

[dhccpa]

thanks