Metformin and hormonal resistance

[shortPSADT]

I was looking over my notes from a Snuffy Myers talk at the PCRI in 2014.

Here are my notes from the talk: Men with metastatic PCA and on hormonal therapy often become hormone refractive. If PTEN is present, then hormonal failure is almost guaranteed. If PTEN is blocked, hormonal resistance is nearly impossible. Metformin is known to block PTEN.

If this is true, why aren't almost all men with stage IV prostate cancer not on Metformin?

Tall Allen, if you read this post, I would like to have your take on this.

[Tall_Allen]

Here's my take:

prostatecancer.news/2019/11...

Medical science uses experiments to determine whether therapies work or not, not talks by Snuffy Myers or anyone else.

[shortPSADT in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thank you! It appears that Snuffy was likely wrong.

[Tall_Allen in reply to shortPSADT]

No shame in guessing wrong (pending STAMPEDE results). I admire him for guessing. Where would we be if no one had hypotheses?

[Hidden in reply to Tall_Allen]

thank you Alan, I agree, no covid vaccine for me… regarding Metformin, if I was dying, I’d rather give metformin a try then some of the others pending Stampede results. Can I offer you a cup of SourSop tea…. Delicious !

[Tall_Allen in reply to Hidden]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Burk in reply to Tall_Allen]

Where's the Covid Vaccine RCTs?

[lookout4 in reply to Tall_Allen]

WoW! that's quite the website... I've bookmarked it.

thanks, steve

[Kentucky1]

Maybe Metformin doesn't totally block PTEN, only partial blockade. So resistance continues?

[shortPSADT in reply to Kentucky1]

I don't know, but an article sent to me from Tall Allen suggests that maybe Snuffy was just wrong.

[Kentucky1 in reply to shortPSADT]

I think that the Stampede trial results will give some light to the situation. So many variables involved.

[Hidden]

I'll keep taking metformin and a statin. I'll put my trust in real doctors and researchers.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Peddie what is your statin strength? Ed can you also tell me yours?

Karen

[EdBar in reply to Hidden]

My statin dosage is 5 mg daily of Rosuvastatin (Crestor). I was once on a higher dose but my LDL was running too low, a level of it is required for brain function. Snuffy wanted to keep LDL cholesterol low in order to help prevent testosterone starved prostate cancer cells from converting it to a form of testosterone, and also for coronary health since long term ADT is hard on the cardiovascular system.

Ed

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I take 20 mg atorvastatin and 1500 mg metformin daily.

[EdBar]

I’ll also keep taking Metformin and a statin as prescribed by Snuffy back in 2015. He was/is an excellent doctor and researcher with stellar credentials.

Ed

[Currumpaw in reply to EdBar]

A more recent study below than most referenced here. As I have often written, synergy is a powerful force and one-off studies of a drug or supplement are in my opinion---flawed or at best, fail because like our diet, there needs to nutrients that support each other for health.

Pitavastatin and metformin synergistically activate …

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/338...

The combination index value for cell viability indicated a synergistic interaction between metformin

and pitavastatin. Moreover, cotreating the cells with metformin (30 mM) and …

Author: Ya-Hui Chen, Ying-Chih Huang, Shun-Fa Yang, Hsu-Heng Yen, Horng-Der Tsai, Ming-Chia Hsieh, Yi-Hsuan ...

Publish Year: 2021

Another:

Statins Starve Cancer Cells to Death - Johns Hopkins …

hopkinsmedicine.org/news/ne......

Mar 12, 2020 · In unrelated studies, other Johns Hopkins Medicine researchers have studied how statins may cut the risk for aggressive prostate cancer. ...

You might need to copy the entire script in italics to access these studies. There are quite a few online if anyone wishes to use their search bar and peruse some of them while relaxing on a Sunday morning.

Currumpaw

[meowlicious99]

Hear is a case study with N=1.

My dad has been on metformin since last 3 years for type 2 diabetes. Got hormone resistance in 1 yr from beginning of ADT.

[noahware]

There are so many pathways involved, and PTEN is just one. If we know anything about cancer, we know it is like life itself: it finds a way. If you block the front door, it evolves to use a rear door. Block those rear doors and it evolves to somehow slip through the cracks. It becomes whatever it needs to become to survive and grow.

Our best hope is in slowing it down, Whenever I see mechanistic studies that show a possible pathway that might be used, I think it is not always wise to disregard the potential benefit just because that benefit is not yet revealed in the limited number of trails that examine it. Just because an agent is not yet proven to be of SOME help does not mean it cannot be of ANY help to SOME men (even if not to all or most men).

The key point in whether you make use of such an agent is in the other possible harms or benefits that might come with it. I believe for many men, metformin may be something that has multiple POTENTIAL benefits (not proven benefits) that weigh against very few known harms. Of course, there may be harms not yet proven, so one should account for that possibility.

Bottom line is, if it won't hurt you and might help you, why not try it? If it fails as a therapy, all you've lost is your financial outlay... which is very limited for a generic like metformin. If nothing else, you may receive the placebo benefit, which is REAL.

[Hidden in reply to noahware]

Noah, great post, your words are perfectly said.. thank you!

[Scout4answers in reply to noahware]

you may receive the placebo benefit, which is REAL.

Right on ! the mind is the most powerful tool we have.

[Stevecavill]

one of the major benefits of metformin is to counteract the known cardiac side effects of ADT

[shortPSADT in reply to Stevecavill]

I didn't know that -- thanks. I have been on Metformin 1.5 g/day for 5 years but not, thankfully, on ADT -- just Casodex. That day will arrive, I'm sure. I take Metformin based on my MO's advice, but am not diabetic and never have been.

[Redgold]

I just found this ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[cesces]

If TA doesn't answer, I will hazard a guess.

The reason is that in whatever studies that have been conducted to date it hasn't improved outcomes.

Though it may well be that those studies were not well designed to test your specific thesis.

[Islandboy2021]

I tried Metformin and still became castrate resistant.