After 7 months of ADT, my heart ♥ is feeling weird.
My resting heart rate 4 months ago was usually about 48, now it's up, at 60. Just sitting watching tv, it's 75.
Climbing one flight of stairs I am panting, and heart is beating at 120.
Family Dr says it's normal. I am starting to hate the word, normal.
Is there a blood test that will enlighten the question?
Maybe Cholesterol, or Calcium?
I'm stage 4 and 52. More skeleton mets than you can shake a stick at.
Wow,my hubby is experiencing the same with the elevated heart rate. Myhubby58 is 60 yrs old with stage4 Prostate Cancer and Mets every where, he is in the hospital right now because his heart rate went up to 150..he has an infection in his blood stream and dr don’t know where it’s coming from..
It is a well known fact that ADT does cause adverse effects on heart. More monitoring and care of heart is required. What needs to be done is:
(1) Lose weight to reach BMI below 24.
(2) Eat heart healthy food and maintain LDL cholesterol below 100 by diet and or medicine.
(3) Have tight control of blood pressure by getting BP meds adjusted. BP should remain at or below 130/90.
Some basic tests needed are:
(1) Lipid profile
(2) EKG ...or better .. Treadmill stress test or Cardiac Echocardiogram. The most important number to look in results is Ejection Fraction. If EF is above 50, your heart is doing its job fine,
Some valid points I agree.
I am already there with BMI, healthy eating although I can improve, BP is up due to Zytiga.
I have read other posts about the home EKG machine, I am going to order one on Amazon today. As others have said, we have to manage and campaign for our own health, the medical system won't do it. Squeeky wheel gets the grease.
CS,
You probably know that EKG does not tell much until heart has become very abnormal. It still has use if you know how to read it well. EKG can tell how big your left ventricle has become...which is a sign of failing heart. As for blocked arteries, EKG is poor test because it only shows abnormalities when arteries are blocked severely or if you are already going thru a heart attack. About your heart's pumping capacity, the better tests are Echocardiogram or Treadmill stress test. If you really want to know exact degree of arterial blockage, Doppler Echo and/or coronary angiography is even better.
Again, If you know how to read EKG correctly and are detail oriented...Home EKG is not a bad idea.
Most people on ADT are slightly anemic with lower RBC counts, thus lower oxygen carrying capacity, so the heart has to pump more blood to meet O2 requirements leading to higher pulse rates.
Also, ADT causes Q-T interval prolongation, which can lead to arrhythmia, so you may be able to monitor this with your EKG device. medpagetoday.com/cardiology...
Oh yes, you are correct. My blood tests show about 15% lower RBC levels.
LOL, again my Dr said my levels are normal.
I have been slacking on my daily exercise habits, just been busy, and pain levels due to mets and radiation. I have to get back to exercise.
Also check your QT interval, perhaps see a cardiologist as well.
I was active before dx and have managed to increase my activity levels while on it, though I am a bicyclist. Seems to me we have as much to fear from the treatment of PC as the disease itself so I am going to do my best to make sure something else doesn't take me down while I am focused on the PC.
I only had LN involvement so I am not dealing with pain from mets but finished RT mid March 2020 and have been on Lupron for 1 year and Aberiterone on closer to 10 months. I can't encourage you enough to find a way to stay active. I am 5 years older than you and am convinced my activity level is helping on many fronts, i.e. SE's, Heart Health, Mental Health, BP, etc. I am going to purchase a Kardia to check my heart but earlier I purchased a heart monitor to see what was going on while exercising. It appears I am working at 85-90% MHR for rides up to 4 hrs, or at least I was before the days started getting shorter. I will take it easier through the colder months and only do long rides on the weekends. Maybe a bike is a better option for you running is harder on your body. I personally have to spend time outdoors regardless of weather which has its own additional benefits to the exercise.
I have been on ADT drugs for years. I have had an elevated heart rate for the last 6 years.
Thanks for that.
I was given 3-5 years, 8 months ago.
Good to know it is not necessarily instant death, but really doesn't feel good. Its like I have had 6 cups of coffee......all the time
I can't believe how I have changed since diagnosis. I was perfectly healthy except for PC, now I am so full of anxiety, paranoia , foggy brain, physical changes of my body, aches and pains, F$%#@.
Good luck to us all
I’ve been on adt for 24 months now and adt has messed with my heart rhythms and caused my bp to be poorly regulated.
With very little exertion my 132/74 bp jumps up to 215/110 very quickly. Before adt my qrs train was poster child for perfect waveform. Now my qrs train looks like a pong game. Really wrecked. At about 12 months, my home personal ekg monitor failed 100% of the tests , saying I had an abnormal heart rhythm but nothing specific. Not particularly dangerous in other words. Now at 24 months in, my rhythm has improved dramatically, now I’m passing, green, on 7 out of 10 tries. Most of the flunked tests are due to ectopic beats , which are considered normal in most people are aren’t generally considered to need treatment. Being sick can increase the amount of ectopic beats and meds can do that as well. My personal ekg monitor is the simple Kardia monitor that bluetooths to your smart phone for diagnostics .... as recently pointed out here, there are other brands available too.
Sounds like you are doing fine , pretty average side effects .. you can keep an eye on it yourself by buying your own monitor. You already have a blood pressure machine, a bg tester, a finger oximeter , 12 test urine test kit and a thermometer.... you probably should have a home ekg device as a no brainer addition to your kit.
Just say’in 💪💪💪👍👍👍
Thanks, I have taken your advice, and ordered a home EKG , arriving tomorrow, via Amazon
Its good to take a basic look, it’s not the definitive doctors exam but the new AI algorithms they are using now are surprisingly good and the app offers a more in depth doctor evaluation if you want one. It’s a no brainer and should be part of the basic kit all us croakers already have at home.
I don't know if this helps you in your situation. You might be set on Lupron since it is a conventional SOC today.
But I did 5-6 months of estrogen patches (around .25 mg/day). And also zytiga. That got my testosterone to undetectable levels. I had read about Lupron and some of the sides and that was why I tried estrogen (it was SOC for 40 years and was abandoned for Lupron because of cardiac risks - since then we have transdermal deliveries that pretty much take out the cardiac risks).
My cholesterol went from 193 (LDL 118) to 155 (LDL 97). BP went from 119/69 with HR of 51 to 123/72 with HR of 50. Fat dropped from 18% to 15%. Lost lots of muscle though. I exercised almost every day. Weightlifting and cardio.
I've continued the zytiga but dropped the estrogen since I started high testosterone 13 months ago. BP went up and up to 147/85. And it'd go up quite a bit when I exercised (during the cardiologist treadmill test it went up to around 220/120). I think the BP issues were due to the zytiga so I stopped zytiga for a month and it dropped to 125/68. Perhaps a higher dose of prednisone might help? I plan on asking my MO about this and, depending on what she says, experimenting with it.
Yea , that stuff does sound interesting to me and experimenting with it kinda sounds like fun ...hard to explain. From what a lot of people here say , maybe I could improve my QOL on several fronts. That said , I have a medical team of about 6 people ..GP, oncologist, diabetes nurse, hospice , radiology, and a couple others ... I was “ strongly “ encouraged to enter hospice about 24 months ago, but I had never received any kind of treatment yet ... in my mind I wanted to try “ something “ , “ anything “ before I just laid down and croaked. I realized I was pretty far ( real far ) along but still .. anyway , I’ve beat hospice for 24 months but I get the basic feeling from my medical team that they had mentally consigned me to hospice ( my Waring blender insides ) and have kinda moved on now. They never talk to me much, even when I write them with questions ... they delay quite a bit and return extremely abbreviated answers , like “ no “ or the standard my oncologist likes to say to everything I ask ...” your psa is low “. Yayahahahaya Yayahahahaya when I see one, they just kinda give me “ that look “ and hey my psa is low yayahahahaya I think they think they don’t want to build me up with false hope and “ all that “ ... and I get that, but I don’t think it would hurt to try a few things anyway .... I don’t really think that’s false hope oriented as much as just QOL adjustments. I could fool them and hang around MUCH longer than they expect . already have of sorts. My old GP that just retired was the most receptive to this conversation but even he would steer me away to other things like offering to jack up my pain meds if I wanted or talk about other hobby things ,and am I settling my affairs and gathering my family and trying to do bucket list stuff . Am I staying comfortable ...
It’s kinda funny after a while ... I saw my 6 month oncologist visit here recently, I think I launched into the fact that adt has horribly crippled me. ... I got what I felt was the “ that’s the very least of your worries “ answer and the standard “ your psa is low “ and then he started asking me if I had been doing things to enjoy myself , keeping family close ..the same old yadda yadda he said I looked pretty good right now ( never mind I’m red faced, huffing and puffing, shuffling my feet to walk and having rotating random “ discomforts “ all over my body ) as I sat and winced talking to him .....
The docs seem to be happy with where I’m at and don’t want to rock the boat ....so to speak, making those QOL changes seem to be off the table right now.
Yeah, you fool the s__t out of them! I had a conversation with my RO yesterday what a guy. Both my urologist that started this and my RO had great personalities so I stood on the side of the road ( I was in the middle of a ride) and had a great conversation with him about questions I had about treatment, MRI's results etc. My MO is younger and like a wall, but not a bad bloke. My RO slipped that they may discuss taking me off Zytiga at my Dec Lupron Inj/Dr Visit. No more info than that so don't need to worry about it until then , at which time I may want opinions from this fine group of people at MALECARE (your welcome Darryl).
I would be interested in what your Dr says about the higher dose of Pred. My MO wanted me to do 1 5mg pill twice a day but the Zytiga literature said for non-metastatic 1 5mg pill once a day which is what I am doing. I have not checked for a few weeks but my BP was in the 115/70 range at that time.
I thought an absence of corticosteroids increased BP. I missed it by that much!
So instead of asking about increasing P I'll ask about decreasing P.
"Prednisone raises blood pressure in many people who take it. One reason is that prednisone and other corticosteroids cause the body to retain fluid. Extra fluid in the circulation can cause an increase in blood pressure. Anyone who takes prednisone should have his or her blood pressure monitored regularly."
Correct I learned that here , and have been monitoring BP much more since.
We'll have an excellent presentation on ADT and cardiovascular issues during our Prostate Cancer Patient Conference, so do sign up! It starts November 30.
As mentioned before, maybe time to get a referral to a Cardiologist. The usual Doppler Echocardiograms and Stress Tests will provide information about any "plumbing" problems. Other "rate and rhythm" issues and your own log of the circumstances of your symptoms may lead you to a referral to a Cardiologist specializing in "electrical" problems.
Anecdotally, after I was on ADT for around 2 1/2 years I developed some occasional Paroxysmal Atrial Fibrillation with Rapid Ventricular Response (Afib with RVR). Never had to be shocked to make my heart convert, but did make a trip or two to an ER where some drugs calmed it down. Thereafter, mine has settled down considerably after a few years of some daily or "as needed" pills. Never needed to have an "electrical" Cardiologist go in and do an "ablation" procedure inside the heart. This month marks my 7th year on ADT since beginning as very metastatic at original diagnosis.
Things like A-fib or other heart problems can present themselves across a wide spectrum, with or without certain symptoms that one can subjectively feel.
Anecdotally, I can attest that it was Very scary and discouraging whenever my heart started feeling "iffy", or started beating way too fast and irregularly, and I felt like Total Crying Crap. Things are very much better now. (Except for the "I remember wine" part. Ha. Ha.)
Just forget about all those new fangled gadgets....
I test my heart by looking at pictures of beautiful naked women...I must admit, sometimes I pass out.....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Friday 10/30/2020 7:34 PM DST
Hello guys, please take care of your hearts. My husband, dx 11/19, Gleason 7, widespread mets, recently had a heart attack and discovered serious heart issues present. He’s also a type 1 diabetic, age 77 and can not have revascularization. Everything started with an infection that went septic and into septic shock. He was in the hospital 10 days. Last year when dx he had Docetaxel, 6 tx every 3 weeks and was also put on Lupron and Xgeva. The chemotherapy knocked his PSA down but it was short lived by July his PSA was trending up. MO waited and finally put him on Yonsa (abiraterone). He was only on it 3 weeks when the infection happened, so here we are: he was taken off the Yonsa in hospital, missed onc appointment, PSA rising. He is now on heart medication and finally had labs done and his liver enzymes are elevated. He has an autoimmune disease too that was not medicated in hospital. So we’re waiting to see cardiology, rheumatology and family physician to figure out next steps. MO wants to re-start Yonsa but is waiting for cardiology clearance. Please keep checking your cardio function. My husband had no idea.
He had a wound on foot. He stubbed his toe walking one of our dogs. The wound became infected.
Are you on Oxycodone?!?
I wish you well Hobie. I hope you can get some treatment to turns things around. If you already have mets, did that cause allot of pain or blood in your stool? In trying to determine what to expect down the road.
Hi George
I have a high volume of bone mets. Most of my skeleton, spine, shoulders, ribs, and pelvis.
My pelvis does not give me pain, thank God. But my back, and ribs do.
I now have an effective pill, Pregabalin, 100mg twice a day. That has really very helpful, along with morphine, to enable me to have a great quality of life. Sitting and lying down is uncomfortable sometimes.
I can walk, cycle, swim, travel and laugh, eat and drink with my family. I am so thankful for that, every day.
I'm glad you have some meds to improve your quality of life. That's essential. Did you ever have any blood in your stool? Keep laughing and smiling with the family. Best
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Still on ADT and look what it has done :-)
