In France the hospitals are now allowed to treat Covid-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin after a very tough battle between an anti conventional professor from the university of Marseille, Didier Raoult, who is slandered by his greedy for money parisian competitors, paid by big pharma.
Hydroxychloroquine is an old and very cheap medicine, called Plaquenil in France (100 pills for less than 6 €).
He is very successful and his combo treatment avoids people to die if it is administered on the beginning of the symptoms and fever:
So he was recently threatened by death... The first investigations linked to an university hospital in France...
You can find him on Twitter and Facebook.
But what is also interesting about the hydroxychloroquine is, that it doesn't only heal the Covid-19 but has also some activity against PSA progression :
Well, in spite of your enthusiasm, the data do not yet support its use for covid-19. In the unrandomized French study you cited, 20 people got hydroxychloroquine (some got azithromycin too) and 16 were hand-picked controls. After 6 days, virus was detected in only 30% (6/20) of the treated people, but in 87% (14/16) of the controls. So far, so good, eh?
BUT- 6 of the 20 treated people had dropped out by Day 6 (none of the controls dropped out). "Drop-outs" means they were no longer available for virus detection. Of the 6 "drop-outs," 3 were unavailable because they were transferred to ICU, 1 died, 1 left the hospital, and 1 couldn't tolerate the treatment.
So it is possible to conclude that FAR from making the people better, that treatment makes a lot of the people worse.
It is unnecessary to fall back on conspiracy theories for explanations. Larger, better-done trials are in progress already.
In an attempt to replicate the French study in China, they found that it had no activity against covid-19.
"On day 7, COVID-19 nucleic acid of throat swabs was negative in 13 (86.7%) cases in the HCQ group and 14 (93.3%) cases in the control group (P＞0.05)."
A rush to salvation without data for consequences?
Fen Phen--
Vioxx
Two examples of drugs approved by the FDA --too soon--
I 'd stick with being stuck by a cannula or syringe for a small infusion or a large injection of vitamin C if I get Coronavirus. Even better--an initial 50, 000 mg infusion of C over an hour to see what happens. It will not harm anyone.
The fact that we can only come up with a couple of drugs that escaped FDA scrutiny of the thousands they have approved gives me comfort. In fact, both drugs worked well - they weren't safe, however. So what is the point of taking a drug that has no data on safety or efficacy?
The fact is, both the drugs I mentioned of just a few that were pulled after studies showing that they worked without side effects--but--once in use for extended times maybe beyond the time span of the studies these side effects showed up.
I worked in pharmaceutical manufacturing for nearly 15 years. For the FDA to approve a manufacturer to produce a drug they need to run five batches of the drug and three consecutive batches need to meet spec. Of course there is always a push to get testing approved. So many failed experimental drugs--I believe, when I was involved, the average was one success for 120 or whatever failed trials. I prefer not to take anything unless it has been in use for --some time -- or I judge it to be harmless.
Are there are still some questions about hydroxychloroquine that these short term studies haven't answered? I will say that because hydroxychloroquine has been out so long and is a generic the $$'s aren't going to be like a patented drug.
I didn't read the studies. I accepted your synopsis of them.
Thank you Tall Allen.. medical science can only provide safe and effective care for patients if treatment is clinically proven over a period of time and approved by the appropriate regulatory agencies. If my Oncologist ever offered me a treatment plan for my high risk PCA based on a YouTube video from a sole practioner physician in upstate New York, based on non peer reviewed tests with 6 patients ... I would run fast and I would run far
How tall are you? 1.9M, 2M, 2.2M? But let us not worry about that. I agree with making sure that all claims made by anyone need to be supported by FACTS, the Real Facts, not the fake ones.
So far in Australia and where I live in Canberra, a small city of 440,000, Covid19 cases are low, and I don't even know if any one has died. Traffic on roads is very little, so its delightful to cycle on roads not heavily infected by motorists. City center looked like a ghost town today.
I am having no trouble self isolating, because since a wife vamoosed in 1978, I got extremely good at surviving without any involvement with many other ppl that the media seems to think is so darned important.
Everyone's fear of this virusial plague is somewhat irrational and neurotic. Shit happens, OK, ya can't always stop it. There's fear of fear itself. Us little iddy-biddy humans powerless against nature and Polly Tichanz and Big Pharma et all.
But Government here is throwing vast sums of money at the problem and many businesses are beginning to think all their Christmases are happening at once.
I feel that as time goes by, it will be inevitable many more ppl will get Covid 19, and many will survive, and have immunity, and those thousands or millions of able bodied ppl will be able to get back to work, and get overtime to catch up on what was not done while loafing about with what seemed a bad cold.
The economy will NOT crash.
I also feel that our present Govt is depositing vast amounts of $$$$ on companies, to prop them up with a fake cash flow. This way it seems out Govt is trying to buy a way out of having a recession,and thus be very electable when the next elections happen and when effects of cash handout has jollied up all the business community. Millions of ordinary ppl will get SFA.
2 months ago, Govt was so stingy and mean about paying one cent to anyone for anything, except to France, where they are due to spend aud $220billion on 12 submarines. It began with agreement on 50billion, Could end up 500billion.
But dole is $220 a week, unchanged since 1990s. Suddenly they find 100billion laying around to splurge of favoured ppl in business.
The bushfires here made them think twice about being so stingy, but Covid19 is really making them react - to avoid losing next election.
If Hydroxylchloroquinine actually works, we would be lucky, but more proof that it does work is needed, amid the screams and yells of ppl wanting to believe it does work because in a crisis that's what ppl do, they believe stuff without proof.
All of life is a procession of events that may be a crisis. Its a wonder I ain't got PTSD from just having made it to 72. I never felt any need to believe in God, or in so many fake cures for Pca. I can't see that I have a soul, or feel I need to have an after life.
I live independently to superstition.
Its been a very nice day here; I did a small cycle ride with a big one planned for tomorrow.
I just finished 95km ride on this very nice autumn Sunday.
My ride was on tar sealed roads and cycle paths, no dirt.
If you did your 92km on the dirt, you win.
I did 226km total for week.
24.2 kph av speed for first 26.6km and coffee stop, but I was taking it easy, anticipating going a lot further. I lost count of how many ppl I over took, and only 2 young smart arses overtook me. Because ppl have been locked in, with nobody telling them not to go out for a walk for exercise, what do many of them do? They get on their little used bikes and clutter up the landscape. I held my breath as I caught up and passed these ppl, and held it when they came the other way.
At breakfast, on our ABC radio, an old man said he remembered the 1957 Asia Flu that killed a huge number of ppl in USA. There was basically no action taken, no piles of $$$$$$$ given to businesses who suffered a downturn, ppl just took the risk to carry on.
I keep thinking that if a million get Covid19, and 10,000 die, its a 1% death rate.
So what happens with the 990,000 who recover fully? Are they not able to go back to work and have immunity to the virus? So how would society as we know it collapse with such a low number of deaths? Covid19 is nowhere near as bad as say the Black Death Plague in 1400s. Nowhere nearly as bad as living in middle east in many places where the men endlessly argue about power, and until vast areas of suburbs have been flattened by hate talk and bombs, with thousands copping a bullet.
Spare a thought for when the white man arrived in Australia from Europe and brought all his diseases with him. It is estimated 90% of the native population of about a million died within 20 years. Similar horrible stuff happened in americas. We are lucky.
I have no Pca symptoms.
Psa rising, 3.5 now, but doc is not worried until it gets to 5, and then I'll have PsMa scan and maybe more Lu177.
Do I get an Easter Egg? Hoo Noze, Deep Ends wot E-Bunny decides.
Ppl are saying C19 is transmitted mainly by touch. So If I touch things that have been touched by others who might be infected, I might get C19. There's a point where you have to become very practiced at not touching things that have been touched by others which includes all things bought at the shops, all door handles at entry, and cash, and there's a long list and I have to admit I have to get a lot better at doing this. Community transmission is just beginning here, so now is time to operate with a mind propelled by fear.
It may become difficult to get more therapy to keep Psa low.
it might be cheap, but a friend of mine who uses it to treat her Lupus can no longer get it because of its sudden popularity; a lot of the French press is not as enthusiastic about that Marseille doctor and this study, either (I'd love it if it worked, I'd love anything that worked!)
Yes, same is happening here in the states. Dr's writing scripts for patients who demand it, and patients that actually need it are is some cases doing without.
I was just going to say that I wish they would add Zn to the combo. Hydroxy Chloroquine is a Zn Ionophore. Zn exists as an ion in our bodies and the drug drives the Zn ion through the bi-lipid layered cell membrane. The ion interferes with the RNA replication process. It should also be beneficial for CaP. From what I can tell, Quercetin and Green Tea are also a Zn Ionophores
Hi. Great post and great replies. The roads around here are no longer infected by a lot of motorists. My road rage is now just a simmering anger. I am hoping things get back to normal soon; I miss cursing them damn idiots.
In New Delhi, India the roads are quiet and there is no auto or dust pollution. The skies are Blue after about 25 years and air is pure. In some towns wild animals are wandering around happily on main roads. I don't think we can stop this pandemic. We can't replicate what the Chinese did. Just hoping that the higher temperatures will give us some protection and reduce infection rates.
The problem with this therapy is that the people with money and influence have used it to buy up the small stocks of this drug that were available so that the people that have conditions treatable with it are now deprived of the medicine they actually need.
The free market and human stupidity working together to produce the worst outcome for everyone.
I looked up Nanotized Zinc.. can you say what is Nanotized and what type of brands carry it. I looked and googled it yet found nothing with that name other than lots of different brands and types of zinc from powder to lozenges.. thanks very much..
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