Regardless of how you feel about his politics, you have to admire him for this, from the NY Times:
"Charles G. Koch announced the death in a statement, which noted that David Koch had been treated for prostate cancer in the past. “Twenty-seven years ago,” the statement said, “David was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer and given a grim prognosis of a few years to live. David liked to say that a combination of brilliant doctors, state of the art medications and his own stubbornness kept the cancer at bay.”
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Respectful post! Politics be damned! Here is something I found:
"Koch contributed to several charities including Lincoln Center, Sloan Kettering, New York-Presbyterian Hospital and the Dinosaur Wing at the American Museum of Natural History. The New York State Theater at Lincoln Center, home of the New York City Ballet, was renamed the David H. Koch Theater in 2008 following a gift of $100 million for the renovation of the theater."
The Koch brothers contributions transcend the whole spectrum of the current political scene and should be respected for all the good they have done.
I may be biased, only because I'm being treated at Sloan Kettering.
Nah. That's cool. He tried to undermine medicaid and medicare almost his entire life. How many men would die without treatment and progress to the metastatic stage as they suffer and their families watch them waste away with out any care because the treatment is not affordable?
Or how about all of the money not going into research and there being no incentive so we never get zytiga or all these other treatments?
He survived prostate cancer so I have to admire him? lolololol
1st, Medicare and Medicaid are still here ( although with the waste and fraud, the private sector would do much better).
2nd, as far as funding going into research:
"The nonprofit arms of the family’s empire include the Charles Koch Foundation, which provides grants to colleges and universities for research and education, and the Charles Koch Institute, a funder of education, research, and training programs for professionals. Last year, a report revealed that Charles Koch had given more than $1 billion to charity, mostly to civic and philanthropic groups rather than political causes. In 2017, the vast majority, 95%, of his personal giving went to educational programs and community groups that deal with persistent poverty. The David H. Koch Foundation also funds medical research."
How would the private sector do much better? I'm a clinical social worker, I work in healthcare and deal with insurance systems. Look up managed care organizations. Many states have moved to MCOs and their costs have increased while level of care diminishing. This isn't rocket science or hidden information, just google it and you will find out about all of this. I also live in Pennsylvania and we have a healthcare system here called "commonwealth health". It is among the worst healthcare systems in the US and probably the developed world. This is 100 percent for profit. Yet, even though the number 1 factor in this system is the profit motive, it has lead to worse care and outcomes.
Medicare and medicaid also reimburse at a lesser rate, meaning that private insurance by virtue is more expensive. Prior to the ACA you would be denied any type of private insurance due to having any type of pre-existing medical condition. If you had cancer, you would 100 percent be not insurable on any type of private market place, this is not rocket science as for-profit insurance companies want to minimize as much risk as possible. Further, you don't think there is waste in private insurance? There is waste in all aspects of business. There is no such thing as a perfect system.
So number one didn't really give me a "soft rebuttal". It was more just soft.
Your second "soft rebuttal" was again soft. They have donated millions and millions to educational institutions so they can have their hand in hiring and only teach complete trickle down economics and libertarian policies. They donated to gain influence within these institutions to further their ideology. I remember he also was giving out free turkeys to those in poverty but also handing out leaflets about the glory of oil. Everything he did was to further his own agenda. I'm not impressed and neither are millions of others.
Hmm.. You have given me a lot to dissect! Without the help of Google and just relying on my 70 years of experience, I'll try to give you my take:
1) MCOs work hand and glove with Medicaid and are subject to approval of any state. PA happens to be one of them. If your dissatisfied, speak to Democrat governor Wolf.
2) ACA?? Remember "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor". The horrid deductibles, Co-pays and mandates(now gone).
Barron, I have to hand it to you, you gave me a "hard" (but ineffectual) rebuttal.
I buy off the private market. I also happen to own my own business in the form of a mental health practice and a side gig doing in home geriatric care management. The only reason I could currently buy off the private market was due to the ACA allowing people with pre-existing conditions to buy off the private market due to risk pooling and offsetting that cost through CSR payment made by the government to private insurance markets. Prior to 2016 my costs were around 305 a month, but have increased to over 500 after this wonderful administration discontinued them and continues to undermine the marketplace under the guise of "personal responsibility". All of this because i did the terrible thing as was born with a heart conditions. Damn me and my lack of personal responsibility.
Everyone I know kept their doctor. In fact, I don't know a single person that didn't get to keep their doctor. My father also has advanced prostate cancer and the only reason everything is staying afloat right now is because of medicare. My parents would be bankrupt or my father would be dead right now if not for that program since he would be denied all insurance and costs to insure would become astronomical if they tried to find private insurance when they were elderly or already had a health condition - especially chronic.
I would prefer a system much like Germany or even Australia. Two fantastic systems. I say this because I always get the all or nothing geniuses saying "ya cha want tu no freedumb ya communist". No. I would like a mixed system. See. I threw in some humor for you there : ). Which I actually do have a great sense of humor all things considering. But when I'm told from someone that I or my family would be better off in the glorious "free market of healthcare" (there is no free market of healthcare. You going to shop around if you have sepsis?) I lose my sense of humor.
Hmm... Remember we are brothers! Your points are well taken. Its getting late (I'm starting to get drowsy. Just took my night meds.) However, everything that I post tonight is subject to revision tomorrow!
1) I'm lucky. My lovely wife refuses to stop teaching and we have Anthem ( they have picked up almost 300K the past year and my out of pocket has been less than 4k.
2) Have you looked into Direct Primary Care? As I understand, it is basic health care with low premiums, however, you need catastrophic insurance (I think it that it is also inexpensive, however, not sure of pre ex). Here is a link that might help:
3) I believe that that there should a national risk pool that provides the same costs and benefits that are provided to any large corporation. Small business and any individual should be eligible. Given the millions who would be eligible, premiums should be lower and they could include pre ex. Problems? The feds and states fighting it out!
Last post wasn't meant to rebut anything. Just acknowledging a different (perhaps valid) point of view and trying to provide some information. Just my take.
I would also like to find out what treatments he did to survive that long. It had to be more than money as lots of other rich men have died of prostate cancer.
"Following David Koch’s cancer diagnosis in 1992, he received the most advanced medical treatments, including radiation at Sloan-Kettering, surgeries and hormone therapy. The disease would repeatedly return".
“Once you get that disease, and I’ve had it for 20 years almost, you become a crusader to try to cure the disease not only for yourself but for other people,” Koch told the Washington Examiner in 2011."
My DX was exactly one year ago and I had to study hard. In the end I decided to go to MSK and I've have yet to regret that decision. I don't think that wealth has a bearing with regard to the final outcome. However, there are many cancer centers in our country (and in the world) and all may have a different take regarding procedures and treatment. Its up to the individual to decide.
Below is the first post that I made a few months ago. I decided to follow Rudy Giuliani's treatment, who was diagnosed in 2000 ( a man of wealth and power and I'm not even close!) in consult with my MSK Doc's.
To those newly diagnosed
Hi all, first post and here is my story…
2 years ago my PSA started creeping up. Met with my urologist and decided to try a liquid biopsy (Exosome) and my scores were encouraging. On a scale of 0 to 100, mine was 22 ( with a cutoff of 15.6 ) and I thought I was stable.
However, as time went on, that reassurance was short lived. My PSA started to double at an alarming rate, until it reached 28 the following year. After doing tons of research, I decided to opt for a MRI Fusion biopsy . My Insurance wouldn't cover it, however, I negotiated a “contracted rate” of $1400 (down from the standard rate of $2500) with AD RAD. Worth EVERY penny!
Results: Gleason 9, stage 3. I was referred to a local hospital oncologist and after doing a bone scan (negative), he suggested a treatment of 45 days of EBT. I had studied other similar cases (especially Rudy Giuliani, who was diagnosed in 2000 and opted for ADT, HDR Brachytherapy and EBT) and came to the conclusion that 45 days was not the treatment I needed.
Next stop, Memorial Sloan Kettering! Met with Dr. S and he agreed that I needed the 3 types of treatment. Also did a CAP CT scan to see if other organs were clean (also negative,whew!)
So far I’ve had ADT (Casodex with Lupron and now Lupron with Zytiga, with a side of predisone). Brachytherapy (April 26th) and have completed 10 days (of 25) of EBT. Bottom line, no side effects and I feel great.
I’m writing this to those who have been newly diagnosed. Don’t panic, find the best Doc’s and follow the program religiously.
Here is my motto: “I refuse to live the rest of my life in a constant state of anxiety, nor will I allow myself to be entombed in a cocoon of dread”.
When first time one meets APC.....mind gets foggy...
As it hits QOL organs...
Choosing QOL above living at all price..
Which Gp uro oncologist RO..etc..they have no time
In general...
Learn to sit wait and being pissed up with money oriented med cares...
Either blindly follow protocol of URO...
Or doing home work and
Take 2 or 3 different opinion...
Triple therapy...
1 Scorched earth...ADT Ebrt
2 Metabolic cocktail...home made, based on COC who had the guts to patent their cocktail on wishful patients, Mcllelad experience, art of avoiding wishful road
3 Diet therapy again too much..mess with self declared gurus...
All three must be correctly chosen based on clinical studies..
It would indeed be good to know how he managed it. I suspect that what he called "stubbornness," which I call optimism and determination, probably played a role. How is Justice Ginsburg still alive? Probably "stubbornness" has a lot to do with that, too. Both these survivors should inspire us to fight on.
If some one knows about their journey and thoughts
I don't see anything to admire here. He had good luck and good treatments. As far as his contributions go, yes he made some donations. But at the same time he worked hard to deny healthcare to others, particularly to people who are poor.
The Koch-financed network of groups in the first half of this decade certainly was a substantial factor in amplifying and organizing opposition to Obamacare and strengthening state-level resistance to expanding Medicaid and implementing state-administered health insurance exchanges.
Not to mention the anti climate change work he funded while the Amazon, 20% supplier of the world's oxygen is burning like there's no tomorrow. He's lucky that he won't have to live through the hell that he helped to facilitate.
In the end he did a lot more harm than good. This is not a political statement. Climate change is not political, it's science.
ALL those who cannot help talking politics should take their political BULLSHIT to some other place. This is an advanced prostate cancer board. Keep it that way, please.
"But I am certain that is minority opinion among the demographic that is statistically afflicted with pca, who believe in free speach only for those who express opinions with which they agree."
This alien is home grown terrorist...he eats what I eat..why he became rebel
Very intelligent...he has nothing to lose ..
I never noticed his anger
And sure he can become normal..
So go back to cause...
The gene mutations which this guy uses .
What therapy for that..
In 10 years no body will die of cancer...
It will be knowing gene mess and putting it in place
Onco genes and supressor genes..
Uncalled for. Wishing death on another person is a cardinal sin. What if that one is you? Total lack of respect for another human. All I can say is Karma. I'm shocked you of all people would stoop so low as to allow yourself to express your political views. Lost all respect for you.
Personally I stand with Maher on this subject. But I am certain that is minority opinion among the demographic that is statistically afflicted with pca, who believe in free speach only for those who express opinions with which they agree.
I was referring to the voting demographic that gets its news from Faux News... older males wistfully wishing for a return to the good old days when everyone knew their place.
Do you not think your sentiments of shame are are not reciprocated?
Guys come on. Let’s keep the politics out of this forum. We all have plenty of places to express our political leanings. This is not one of them. PLEASE !!!!!! This site is too important to too many of us. I know it’s not easy when you see something political with which you disagree. But I know you can do it because I am able to do so and I’m as political as anyone. Remember who our real common enemy is and let’s work together against that.
Koch was an enemy to healthcare for those of our less well off, or less lucky, brothers who have suffered from prostate cancer without adequate healthcare coverage.
Posts lauding him, or Rudy the human gargoyle, or sociopathic ruble laundering real estate developer politicians would seem to me at the least to be off topic in this forum
Why on Earth would you use this forum, of all others, to laud and aggrandize a person who has been such an effective anti-hero warrior at denying healthcare to your brothers?
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Advanced Prostate Cancer Treatment
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