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Advanced Prostate Cancer
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Which Simvastatin to add?

Husband stoped metforminnafter aevere neck pain and had lactic acid test showed 2.5 repeated test 10 days out still the same but muscle pain is gone.. Dr thinks since he works out with weights and cardio five days a week it can cause lactic level to go up..

also came across article on statins.. He would like to start but we are not sure which and the amount to ask for also which CoQ10 to add

Need help figuring out!!!

He’s 53 no bone nets and last 3 PSA undetectable..

Hope to hear fromNslakrats..

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Why do you think that the Metformin is related to neck pain?

Why would you start statins while you are still sorting out this problem?

Why would you not shift the heavy eight lifting over to moderate weight lifting?

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We did sort this out!! He stopped the metformin because it caused symptoms of lactic acidosis which can be caused by metformin.. he had two blood draws done after stopping and also the pain went away.. it caused 5 out of 10 pain on a daily basis to many joints but mostly the neck area..

The Doctor also asked him to stop weight lifting and working out for 10 days and repeat the labs.

I mainly asked about the simvastatin because we were not aware of it also being used like metformin is being used with cancer. He is going to start back up on Metformin once the labs come back.

He does not do HEAVY lifting he has worked out all his life with weights and cardio.

He has to continue working out and eAting healthy to also lessen the effects of ADT...

I’m looking for an answer on statins...

Hoping Nalakrats will reach out...

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1 Didn't Know Metformin had that side effect.

2. The statins come in a fairly low range of doses. Your doc will not be inclined to prescribe outside that range.

3. My oncologist Charles Myers put me on statins many years back specifically for their anti-cancer effect. He specifically preferred Crestor over simvistatin for this purpose.

4. Statins can cause muscle problems. They typically show up early or not at all. You should ask your doc for monthly blood tests for the first few months until you know it is not causing any problems.

5. You might want to defer statins until you have your muscle issue sorted out. Manipulating 2 variables at the same time may make it difficult for your doc to diagnose one variable.

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Hi Amy; I was traveling yesterday to my Winter residence in Florida.

Saw your request. As to Metformin Acidosis when it come upon you there is no known cure, or something that can be used to off-set the effects of Lactic Acidosis.

However, and you can check in the literature if you wish, Berberine, which is a good substitute for Metformin and does not require a prescription, is not known to cause Acidosis, to my knowledge. I cannot give you the substitution, whether 500 mgs of Berberine will replace 500 mgs of Metformin. But Naturopaths have suggested use of up to 2,000 mgs per day. I cannot myself verify this. But Berberine is GRAS[Generally Regarded As Safe], in the USA. Up to you to try or not, And you can rechallenge the Metformin first.

Heavy workouts, IMO will not cause Lactic Acidosis, but for a short period of time up to 2.5 minutes after doing a heavy set of a particular routine, the body will create Lactic Acid in the muscle group just exercised. Normally we wait 2-2.5 minutes between sets to allow the Lactic Acid to get out of the Muscle group, so we then can repeat the set, at a 100%, of the amount of weight and Reps that were just done. If you try to repeat too quickly, you usually cannot reach the same amount of Reps, until the lactic Acid clears the muscles.

Is your husband Lactose Intolerant? Or does he have an over--abundance of Lactase? The enzyme that converts Lactose Sugar--somewhere in here, there may be a reaction of the Lactic Acid and the enzyme not having enough or having too much. I would have to study this. But Berberine appears to be a safe option. And letting Lactic acid to clear by waiting between Weight Sets.

As to Co-Enzyme Q10. The preferred is the Water Soluble Version, Q-Absorb, a Product made by Jarrow's, is a good choice-- from Vitacost.com or Amazon. 100 mgs is the size and suggested use per day, best at night.

Simvastatin, appears to be the best choice and I believe those who use it related to Pca use 40 mgs per day. The best source of info on this would be to go to pjoshea13---as he has posted on this a few times, and he has a lot of experience with it. So you can find his posts or send him a message, I am sure he has the info you seek. Hope the above helps!

Nalakrats

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Nal, I do 2000 at each meal of the Berberine root. No SEs experienced. I have been doing this for two years. I am in my sixth year of Lupron. I take red yeast rice (the original molecular model for Lovastatin), 1200 mg in the a.m. and 1200 in the p.m.. Both supplements are provided by Solaray. I have been taking red yeast for more than 20 years. I started because of cholesterol management goals.

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Can you outline your results, have you graphed your PSA against the use of both, and if you had Mets, what occurred---as scans would offer proofs. We need more info, from all those who are managing their Pca, as you are, and I, and others are doing.

Thanks,

Nalakrats

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Nal, the causal model would be a fiction. Since I started using IP6 in 2015, I have added probably about 15+ anticancer supplements. My courses in research design and statistics at Cal (Ph.D. '74) stressed careful control of variables introduced into an experiment. As you can imagine, I would be playing favorites now if I said one supplement more than another was driving down my PSA, shrinking my met on my left pelvic lymph node, etc.

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Not asking for a scientific statistical analysis with % Confidence Levels. If your addition of the two you discussed, you saw a drop in PSA, or Reduction or Elimination of a Met, within a short period of time that you can point and say---well that was interesting!!!!. I myself have the same issues with supplements, as my number of anti-cancer supplements based on In vitro and In vivo testing, that I take exceeds yours, and also my training in designing certain aspects of research, though not a major in schooling, like you, but was a requirement at the masters level, for me. You would think, by what I have gotten into, I cannot express the variables, using some sort of control methods. I cannot. Nice to have another ex-researcher on board this site. Going outside the box, way into the ether, makes for an interesting adventure.

Happy Holidays

Nalakrats

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Nal, I am sorry I have adjusted my supplements too frequently to point confidently to any one or two possibly being causal. The one anecdote I can confidently point to I have reported here before. I should add I never thought statistical tests of significance could ever be applied to data gathered at this test. The assumptions supporting parametric testing would never be met here. Nonparametric testing might work (e.g., the Sign Test), but I am skeptical that the n would even be sufficient for this type of testing. We will probably have to go with anecdotes and live in continued uncertainty monitoring our PSA test results as we have.

My single anecdote I can contribute deals with IP6 and the summer of 2015 when I started taking supplements. IP6 was the first. I took a massive dose for 7 weeks prior to a routine six month PSA check with my urologist in Phoenix. He was very surprised to see my 0.1 result. He insisted on a DRE which he had not done since my dx in late 2012. He could not palpate any nodules - which he said in a surprised tone. I did not tell him I was taking IP6 as he had sneered at my question in 2012 about known supplements that might be helpful in fighting cancer. The PSA should have been 4 to 5 times higher given normal disease progression on Eligard/Casodex. My move in 2016 led to my new urologist administering a DRE. He did not accept what my former urologist had recorded in my chart and said "I will see about this". What followed was a DRE that is the stuff of nightmares. He finally admitted there were no nodules in my prostate. He should have said below my waistline. His belief is that all good things that happen to me are the result of Lupron (he dropped the Casodex).

I wrote Dr. AKM Shamsuddin at the Univ. of MD in the summer of 2015, he literally wrote the definitve books (2011 for the latest) on IP6. He said he was not surprised by my experience because his reseach, and other cancer researchers, has found IP6 normalizing cancer cells. (See Rajesh Agarwal's work at the Univ. of Colorado - Denver on prostate cancer.) I continue to communicate with Dr. Shamsuddin.

IP6 doses if large enough will trigger apoptosis - no cancer researcher familiar with the IP6 literature would deny this. That is the main reason for my massive doses which continue to this day. As I said above, this episode is the only one where I can talk about cause-effect with reasonable confidence, but no scientist would ever accept it of course. Why isn't IP6 accepted by the cancer establishment? See Dr. Ivana Vucenik's chapter in the book "Too Good to Be True"? She is a colleague of Dr. Shamsuddin at the Univ. of MD and coauthor of a number of scientific papers with Dr. Shamsuddin.

Hope you had a joyous Hanukah and Christmas.

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HI Calbear, Which IP6 do you buy, and at which daily dose? Thx

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I use Enzymatic Therapy’s Cell Forte Powder, 6 scoops mixed in water vigorously and taken on an empty stomach in the early AM. Repeat in late afternoon on an empty stomach. Never mix with a liquid containing protein.

I purchase from allstarhealth.com as I have found them To be most reasonably priced.

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IP6 is phytic acid, isn't it? Would a vegan diet plenty of whole grain and beans do the same?

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Yes it would make a contribution and is a very smart thing to do, but you lack the purity, potency, and volume of the IP6 powder. The powder is a blend of inositol hexaphosphate and pure inositol in precise proportions. Please read Dr. Shamsuddin‘s book .

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So you made it to the land of sunshine and palmetto bugs.... Enjoy yourself... Have a hot and humid Christmas.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 12/24/2018 5:55 PM EST

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Google benefits of statins + ADT in advanced prostate cancer practiceupdate.com. I don't know how to paste the link. Has an article on statins plus ADT that came out today. Not thrilled about the idea of adding more drugs --- but this in really convincing. Maybe someone here could paste the link? Simvastatin and Crestor are both mentioned here. Maybe I'll get a ouija board for x-mas.

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I bought a ouija board in a garage sale, when I first used it, it spelled out "SUCKER".

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 12/24/2018 5:58 PM EST

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