Hi all,
Asking for a family member who is Hypo, but manages to work full time however they do need to push themselves when they have bad days.
Has anybody managed to claim any kind of benefits, I know they applied for PIP but literally scored zero as the assessor dismissed everything and pointed out they are able to work full time therefore no PIP is required.
Any advice/experience would be helpful.
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I think your relative is approaching this from the wrong side. If they are able to work full time but with bad days then talking to their employer about making allowances for their condition would make more sense. These days employees with ongoing health conditions have more rights.
acas.org.uk/reasonable-adju...
PIP is more for people who are either completely unable to work or can only work with support due to a severe health problem or disability.
The relative is in fear of being sacked (again) over their health as employers can always find a way of pushing you out.
They’ve taken a lower paid and less taxing role so would like to top up with a PIP.
Someone they know is able to work FT but gets PIP due to mental health issues (depression, etc) so it’s felt that this should be possible.
It is possible. PIP is a working age benefit for people irrespective of if they work or how many hours.
I would urge your relative to contact CAB to support them with an application. They are really good.
Thanks, CAB is a good idea! Will suggest that.
Ah, I see, in that case, I second HealthStarDust in recommending the CAB as a good place to get help.
I do whole heartedly agree that their rights under the Equality Act 2010 as a disabled person and reasonable adjustments need to be sought and contacting ACAS is a very good idea for your relative Wired123 Many disabled people work with reasonable adjustments these days. Not near enough as many are not aware of their rights but it’s become even more common place since Covid.
The laws are there I agree, but I also have friends in HR that if someone is deemed too much hassle their manager can manage them out on other grounds.
HR (in some companies) actually have a playbook of actions that they tell managers to follow (including conversation script for managers to follow) in order to force the employee out whilst staying within the rules. Sadly that’s the reality and I have friends in HR in different companies and they’ve shared many stories. I’m just flagging this so people don’t go in thinking HR is on the employee’s side, it’s not. HR is just there so the company does not get sued - again that’s the ethos in many a corporate HR dept as confirmed to me by friends in HR. So all I would say is beware!
Quite a lot of people have awful experiences of HR, and what you described is common also. However, this is why getting support, ACAS, Union, and all sorts of employment advice services are crucial.
Good HR experiences are rare, but not too rare, and the manager is more instrumental than HR in it all.
Agree, it’s all down to the manager. If they want you out, HR will pull out their bag of tricks to help make it happen whilst still staying inside the laws.
ACAS and unions are all well and good, just depends on how dirty HR want to play.
Even a dirty HR play can not outdo the law and services of aforementioned every time. There are far too many employment tribunals that rule in favour of the claimant everyday. Not to mention all those that never make it to court because things get settled before such a stage. We hardly hear about those but they do happen.
I agree, it’s a minefield but the only way it will change is people empowering themselves to have a good working knowledge of their rights and seeking them. If only we lived in a world where we scan expect employers to take care of us. Since we don’t, the onus is on us to educate and empower ourselves.
Again the job of HR is to stay within the rules and still force the employee out. The tribunal route is an arduous one and unless you have any evidence it is very very difficult and time consuming, so I would not recommend.
I’ll give you an example of me and two other colleagues being forced out of the same company. We all had different line managers but the conversations were almost identical. However we had no evidence of any wrong doing, so there’s no chance of tribunals or even lawyers achieving anything.
I am beating on about this because I strongly feel everyone should be aware before they take any steps. The last thing you want is to be out of a job and also struggle to find another one in this current economic climate - especially if you then can’t get a good reference.
Before anyone shouts that employers cannot give bad references/only give standard factual references. Yes true. Reality is in a lot of fields people talk informally over the phone, especially if your manager knows another manager (most industries are small) and/or if using an agency the agents tend to know everyone in their sector so again they can pick up the phone to your old manager.
As much as laws are there, enforcing them is difficult, costly and time consuming therefore please beware before going down the route of fighting your employer. It is not easy and can be emotionally draining.
I can not agree. I’m sorry about your experience and I agree many have the same, but I also know many disabled people who are employed with reasonable adjustments. They happen all the time!
We will have to agree to disagree on this and I admire your optimism, there may well be many employers who are accommodating but equally many who will look to push the “problem” employee out.
Just want everyone to beware of the risks of going down that route and potentially losing their job.
There is no risk of seeking reasonable adjustments particularly with the many support mechanisms and services that exists for an employee to take advantage of. In fact, the risk is far greater of not knowing and taking full advantage of your rights. That is, being out of work or working less hours as the original poster has explained has happened to their relative!
Seeking reasonable adjustments can be is as simple as writing an email, possibly having a meeting, and that’s it! It’s not always as bad as you have described.
I’m not saying there’s a lot of bad employers out there and much more needs to be done to support disabled people in employment but it’s wrong to give the impression that it is always as bad as you have described.
And, as I always maintain, it comes down to the manager rather than HR, and it makes all the difference knowing your rights in the first place. That’s scares any HR and/or manager straight into shape. Thats what many disabled have learned out of sheer necessity.
My best advise to any disabled person is to join a peer forum or network to navigate these issues, learn from and empower each their. That’s the only way things will change.
I’m not an optimist, I simply believe in advocating for rights and the biggest failure we have in our society is not knowing them until it’s too late.
You’re completely missing the points I raise (or perhaps you choose to). You refer to the original poster but don’t even realise that person was also me 🙄
Anyway just to reiterate my point and this is my last post on this thread because it is getting silly now, yes everyone has rights and there’s laws to protect you. However equally there are unscrupulous employers out there who will force out “problem” employees.
Anyone wishing to exercise their rights is welcome to but just be aware of the risk that the employer could force you out eventually.
Yes tribunals are there but it’s a long and arduous process which can also be costly so even most lawyers tell people not to bother, it’s better to get on with life and find another job.
This post was started to discuss benefits, it’s ended up morphing into something totally different so let’s just end it here.
I am so glad this is your last post since you keep repeating the risks of exercising your rights and ignoring the risks of not exercising your rights including being jobless and working less hours! And, you keep painting HR and the employers as the enemy based on your experience. Fair enough, but it is not right to assume this is the case for the majority of the time for every disabled person. I presume you have yet to meet a disabled person or many disabled people as I have who has reasonable adjustments in the workplace hence your easy dismissal of such an outcome as risky.
To be clear, I did not suggest that people should take their employer to a tribunal. In fact, you have consistently missed the points I have raised such as the fact that seeking a reasonable adjustment could be as simple as a discussion. Just today I met someone who is doing half days at work for the interim period due to their health. It happens everyday!
Long and short of it, not all employers are bad and not all HR professionals are out to force an employee out of the company simply for seeking a reasonable adjustment. In fact, this is increasingly the case since Covid especially because more or less every employer has learned it’s good for their productivity to have sick people continue to work even if they don’t do as much rather than have them on sick leave getting paid to do no work.
Yes… this is silly. Yes. I am glad this is your last post. And, once again, while I have do not doubt of your experience or that of many as I believe there is a lot yet to be done for disabled people in the workplace, the suggestion that all HR and employers are generally ‘out to get you’ is simply absurd in this day and age.
As for your relative, I would suggest that alongside seeking PIP they seek employment advice support to seek reasonable adjustments, notwithstanding the reasonable adjustment could be a different role suitable for their health within the same company which would be much better than changing jobs since there’s no guarantee another job would be any easier or their health won’t worsen.
In fact, a lot of the times HR don’t even need to be involved other than to sign off what’s been agreed between employee and manager.
Locking this post at the request of Wired123
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