An interesting article - but somewhat confusing at the medical level.
I think we could be headed towards more diagnostic electronic devices - of which the Apple Watch is just one of many.
Not intended as any sort of recommendation.
Apple Watch detects symptom of thyroid issue months ahead of diagnosis
A nursing student in Australia is encouraging Apple Watch owners to enable heart rate notifications, after the wearable device detected symptoms of a thyroid condition months before being diagnosed.
Apple's heart rate notifications have helped numerous people detect issues with their heart, prompting them to go and seek further medical assistance. In a recent posting to TikTok, it's shown the wearable device can detect very early changes that could end up being diagnosed months later.
Posted on February 2, TikTok user Lauren encouraged viewers of her video to enable notifications for detecting low and high heart rates, irregular rhythms, and for cardio fitness levels. In the video, spotted by The Independent, the Sydney-based nursing student admitted that she should've enabled the features earlier than she did, as it had medical consequences.
In Lauren's explanation, she says she was diagnosed with a thyroid condition a few weeks previously. However, she admits "I would have realized something was going on if my Apple alerted me of changes."
Previously I had a Fitbit, also very helpful to clearly demonstrate very low heart rate
Moved on to Apple Watch 6 about 6 months ago
This has very useful feature that can be set to give a low heart rate alert …..you can set the rate for alarm …..under 50….or lower
I have set my watch to give an alert if heart drops under 44 beats per minute…..I find this happens fairly regularly in night at moment……so clearly not “over medicated “ despite suppressed TSH
Mine used to be 48 wandering around I was just told I was very fit when I was suffering with a thyroid disorder same with blood pressure which was quite low - mistaken for a high level of fitness. Mind you I was quite fit too, so much energy I struggled daily to get rid of it by excessive exercising!
This happened to me - my GP concluded that given my low pulse rate I must be very fit. I could hardly get up the stairs at the time...... When I had an RSV in 2019/2020 tachycardia was one of the symptoms, resulting in a heart rate twice my normal rate. It was v scary.
I bet, it sounds like it was horrendous! Mine has speeded up a bit but never done that to my knowledge I did get a lot of angina which improved only on NDT those pains used to freak me out, I thought I’d drop dead of a heart attack sometimes (several relatives have done just that) but the ticker has kept beating away as steadily as possible. It was only in the last throes of atropic autoimmune thyroiditis that walking became a gargantuan task. It wasn’t too clever for many months after treatment ensued and not great for two years on Levothyroxine when the heart issues reached their zenith. Good these watches are another tool to fight for proper and timely diagnosis…if you can afford one although the prices on the older models are becoming more reasonable.
Cardio sport and Polar weren’t that deluxe to detect somat was up with me back when I used them. Things are moving on with sports watches which is good
Even a watch is better than them 🤣🤣🤣 it’s a poor show really that they can’t even recognise someone is ill. I bet they’d rather believe an Apple Watch than the actual patient tho - it would appeal to their addiction to numbers but it can’t read TSH so it may not wash with them given they think that’s the only number that matters.
It certainly is such a poor show and many of us have suffered at their hand; many more still are. Someone, somewhere needs to stop this bunch before new training medics continue to accept only this guff!
2003 arrhythmia began. 2003 TSH [then] 0.14 just within range - I knew I had a heart issue going on - GP never mentioned thyroid. Palpitations continued - 2007 [by this time I looked like a creature from the deep] heart jerking me out of my sleep at 39 bpm, increasingly cold - 34.5C regularly - TSH 0.11 within their almighty range. Cardiologist: first Q was re thyroid status - I hadn't been told and neither had he, just how close I was EVEN to their 'numbers that matter'. Turned out I had several heart issues, still thyroid was ignored and I knew nothing about it. If any one of them 'believe' 0.14 or 0.11 to be irrelevant in an ill looking patient - reporting all manner of signs/symptoms - then they seem to have no clue about numbers!? 2008 + 2009 two endos = NOT hypothyroid.
Dr Skinner, Feb 2010, looking at ME and the A4 sheet I presented to him - Birth to Current events - was, as he was with many patients, shocked. Levo, obviously and properly prescribed by him to begin with, in less than a couple of months?, I was hyper... clearly not in need of more T4, Armour even with only its small amount of T3 helped. Dr P, May 2010, advised I'd need T3 for life. GP continued to prescribe Armour for 5+ years, with NHS approval and funding together with T3. Heart improved and pretty much everything else... just never fully 'fixed' again but doing OK. Saw an endo - out of the immediate vicinity - when, still largely using Armour, yet with its T3 effects waning and too much T4 - told me I was likely not hypothyroid [Diabetic dr] and asked, "What is your take on T3"!? Struggling but still much better than those horrific pre-hormone days. HEART IMPROVED! ❤️💚💛
January 2015: something else 'went wrong' - 'freezing shins, punch-drunk, poor coordination/stumbling' - another tale altogether. Saw another endo = one portraying himself on the EU stage as 'the good guy' seeing patients outside of their ranges, who immediately declared that I'd never been hypothyroid and to 'stop taking that rubbish'. Certainly gave him a 'run for his money' on paper - he even rang my home for 70 mins trying to 'talk me round' to his views. He at least conceded that 'this is philosophy, not science'. 😅
There are excellent doctors out there, amazing researchers and Health Care Workers, with so much 'good' going on in medicine... Endocrinology 👺 v Apple 🍏 🔍
Do you think you have atropic autoimmune thyroiditis? That’s what I had, so a lot was like Graves symptoms I was thinking I was full of energy (too full of it it used to drive me nuts) I hardly slept, could go days without eating. I had the heart pains, ankylosing spondylitis, Achilles tendinitis & terrible mood swings I did think I was manic depressive. Later I got a frozen shoulder (intensive physio seem to get it right again) , guts problems (I did have my piles fixed which helped a bit). I had shingles on the optic nerve and the heart pains got worse. I had tests which were abnormal and was told it was a problem with one chamber of the heart, something women of my age got, nothing to worry about & goodbye! But I was always freezing cold and had short bouts of exhaustion. A close relative was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and her endocrinologist advised I was tested. I presume I should have had an ultra sound as the thyroid was structurally highly abnormal, as well as a full thyroid panel. But all I was give was a blood test and told it was normal. I never saw the numbers. Just as a contrast, another relative has been given an anual ultrasound and blood test ever since we were told to get it checked out. Why such a different approach? One a minimal one off, the other very thorough and on going? A post code lottery indeed. Another relative did end up getting the same cancer and had the same structural thyroid abnormalities, resulting in a total thyroidectomy and is doing fine c30 years on, but this was discovered purely by accident not by any systematic monitoring). The latter approach might have save me a lot of suffering. That was the only thyroid test I was ever given (until I finally went to see a doctor in sheer desperation and determined I was not moving out of the surgery till I got a thyroid panel blood test.) With more and more symptoms (just look at the list so far & that’s by no means all of them!) I had suspected it was thyroid driven because of the family history of it. After that test I thought I must be imagining it all. They lost my medical notes so I am not sure if it even exists to check what was actually tested and what the results were. I just went more and more downhill the hypothyroid exhaustion becoming more prevalent than the hyperthyroid overdrive which had been my mainstay. I never had a goitre ever.
I never bothered to seek help I just accepted it all as normal. I got loads of chest infections and did go for those as they couldn’t be imaginary. I was a raving loonie by the time I got help because my thyroid had finally died and dumped everything causing one final mega hyperthyroid bout and then I entered the artic - the levo I was told I must take immediately saved my life. It never fully restored my health but with help here I tried NDT and have had a good quality of life since. I get gip with the ankylosing spondylitis and other arthritic annoyances but otherwise I’m not too bad at all. I was lucky to recover this well after peeking over the thyroid abyss!
Mine was diagnosed as atropic autoimmune thyroiditis the endo did say it was a quite unusual form of hypothyroidism. Dr Tania Smith has written some interesting articles about it, as she has that one too. It starts out like graves and ends up like hashis and symptoms are a curious mixture of typically hypo and hyper ones. I think multi nodular thyroid is also another common feature. I was told my mothers was multi lobed which was dismissed as being a misnomer for multi modular. I am not sure if I got it wrong or that there is so much ignorance in the medical profession it was just altered to something they had heard of. It’s irrelevant as mine is a tiny crisp of a thing with no lobes or nodules or any function. I do sometimes wonder if the remaining crisp could become cancerous but I think it unlikely as I can’t have much if a blood supply if it doesn’t do anything!
Thank you so much for this information and what a time you've had of it!?!
I have no idea what I started off with or had/have, other than having had several, ongoing problems since EBV [Dr S retrospectively diagnosed in 2010] which had led to severe fatigue in Sept 1979, six months after the event... seems something was always on the cards. Severe tonsillitis at least 3 times a year from 5 y/o until mid-teens, yet a hardy person. I've now an A4 sheet on illnesses yet no one would really know - even spinal stuff now - because I'm as strong as an ox with the b*lls of a lion, but since end 2006 this has been pretty horrendous, only to be told 'Not hypothyroid'.
I'm off to read this thoroughly and will get back on it. Still not finished project BUT finding your story very interesting. I just didn't need any more T4 - clearly had enough and straight Levo sent me hyper [great at first] - but even the small amount of T3, T2 etc in Armour helped before going fully to T3. Back soon xox
That EBV is really nasty. A close relative had it and two years later he died of burkitts lymphoma and was only 36. He collapsed with terrible pain taking the dog for a run. They were astounded he could even stand let alone run he was riddled with it. It’s a known precursor to it.
It can be dreadful. Dr Skinner worked out - from where I was, college at the time and Glandular Fever [EBV] also 'the kissing disease'? I was floored by it for many years [and since Jan 2015 now have CFS]. I went from fine up and including early 1979 to... I could have fallen down on the curb to sleep.
Ended up taking a chest decongestant that had ephedrine in it. Used for years to get through staying awake to study, live... LIFE. GP told me, "There's a 168 hours in a week, I know I work most of them, you're tired, tough." Not much different to CFS/ME today!
Haven't forgotten to reply to your other... sitting here yawning, trying to finish a project. xox
Just reading your post and one thing absolutely leapt out at me.
I had shingles on the optic nerve
Am currently over five weeks into "ordinary" shingles - left shoulder/occipital nerve region. Today, GP has decided it should be called post-herpetic neuralgia. And offering more medicines.
And it is driving me crazy due to poor sleep and continual itching and pains - including very deep in my shoulder.
I simply cannot imagine having it further up and on my optic nerve - let alone the possibilities for permanent damage.
The pain was indescribable I wept in the doctors surgery it was so terrible. She gave me some real knock out drops that did quell it. I had to go to the eye hospital for a check up and I was thinking I look so awful I had better wear sunglasses but the swelling was so massive and painful I simply couldn’t bear to wear any (I didnt need glasses in those halcyon 20/20 vision days) when I got there I realised most people in there couldn’t even see much anyway let alone my swollen vesicle scabbed over face. They rushed me in first so it must’ve have been bad.
I hope you feel a bit better soon that pain really is exquisitely hideous. Can you get some pain killers with more poke to try and get some relief?
They have given me low dose amitriptyline and 30 milligram codeine co-codamol.
Now waiting to get capsaicin - prescription should be ready tomorrow.
My GP offered something else if this doesn't help enough - but I really want NOT to have anything stronger if I can avoid it. The ami is giving me dry mouth already. And I am only taking co-codamol at night - not four times a day.
It can’t be worse than shingles can it? I presume it’s deconcocted from chilli pepper, think of it like a vindaloo via the skin 🤣🤣🤣 I’m thinking of moving up to scotch bonnet as I can’t make my curries hot enough. I remember when we were kids my younger sister eating a chilli pepper raw - she was in agony for hours after despite all the milk and yoghurt to try and quell the pain. I’ll remind her tonight and we can have a jolly good laugh about it!
Lol do you remember that case I’m sure it was called operation stinging nettle (got that wrong it was operation Spanner) about some sadomasochists having a three day torture party - all willing participants - and whipping with stinging nettles featured large on the rather shocking activities they indulged in. I think one could not sit down for three days after but that’s what he craved 😳😱😳
No, so sorry for delay. I was never full of energy so Graves was never in Q. Aside from depression [as Dr S used to say, “Having all of those things, who wouldn’t feel a little down”?], I too had some of those symptoms, including the shoulder and especially the heart [been experiencing problems from summer 2003, only ‘seen by cardio’ – privately – in 2007] where there were several issues, for me, it was clearly lack of thyroid hormones. All ignored.
Yes, freezing cold – and back to huge exhaustion [from decades earlier] but all ignored. Yes, my thyroid USS showed mine was ‘rather small but otherwise normal’ “You must be struggling” he said… oh yes but their notion of ‘normal’!?
Sorry that you’ve endured THIS much for THAT long. And yes, we persevere because we HAVE to… or maybe ‘just lie down and die’. Oh I did seek help – NEVER accepted any of this to be ‘normal’ – but it was a waste of time. Dr S and Dr P = clearly I was hypothyroid, the latter saying ‘Need T3 for life + adrenal support’, the rest of medics, sneering at anyone else who isn't part of 'their club' and especially of ill patients.
Seems your family and YOU have had some dreadful thyroid issues – none of my paternal side [hmm, a 7 stone-dripping wet aunt] were ever diagnosed but my G-Grandmother filled a 2-seater sofa and couldn’t walk for obesity, just after the war years of rationing! Yes, heard of the genetic aspects. Most of that side of the family have an obesity issue; I’ve again ‘beaten’ mine.
I so hope that you’ve managed to at very least, stabilize some of your issues - unbelievable, you'd think they'd take such an interest in unusual cases!?
Great to hear - wish I'd stayed on it - just needed more, that's all. NHS funded it for 5+ years... endo/GP had it withdrawn, telling me 'not hypothyroid'. BEST OF TO YOU xox 💚❤️💛
Unless the wearer knows that low heart rate etc are signs of hypo ( as members are) then would they join up the dots and think "thyroid"!This student had already been diagnosed as hypo so the watch is backing up what she already knows
It's a bit like being wise after the event
The watch might signal a problem - and that is valuable - but that problem surely still has to be diagnosed by a medic.
It's a plausible tale but it's an Apple site and I sense product promotion
I wear a smart watch so I understand the advantages but...
The Apple connection is why I positively noted that other devices are available.
Some of which might well be better (depending on the comparison used, of course).
But the best Apple Watch is the Series 8 - which will be available towards the end of the year. At which point the best will suddenly be the Series 9 which will be available towards the end of 2023...
I understood that....it wasn't a criticism helvella
I was just doubting the inference in the article that the watch identified a thyroid problem when in fact it highlighted a thyroid symptom that not all wearers might recognise....and not all medics might understand!
Having said that they are very useful tools for alerting the wearer to a problem...I should really upgrade my ancient version!!
No TSH over 10, three times no diagnosis - Apple Watch fails on that. I suppose if you googled heart rate and happened upon it being a thyroid disorder symptom you might get there…until telling a doctor. Some don’t mind people using their brains but others seem affronted. You think they’d be grateful for doing their detective work for them. I seem to have been lucky there and not been openly got at for doing my homework. I am lucky I have a great GP.
Good that Apple are raising the profile of thyroid disorder tho perhaps a lot more people will associate low heat rate with it now.
I have often pointed out (in Apple-related forums) that while blood sugar measurement is obviously highly desirable, the number of thyroid patients is huge. And they could do with being recognized.
If they manage core temperature, that could be good. And blood pressure without any sort of band. Other features as technically achievable.
Are Apple now dipping their toes into the ( thyroid) water !Maybe you've inspired researchers... and some Blue Sky thinking!
My late brother used to have a picture of Mickey Mouse hanging behind his office door and his colleagues used to say he sat and stared at that if he was contemplating a difficult problem.
Are Apple now dipping their toes into the ( thyroid) water !
I'm waiting for the version that can read my thyroid levels simply by my finger touch, or at most a single drop of blood like other tests such as vit D. Wishful thinking I know <sigh>
That would certainly help. But We long ago learned not to hold our breath waiting for that to happen. The new trend for phone consults with medics make this even less likely.
I don’t mind phone consultations. The doctor that finally diagnosed me used them a lot - in an appropriate manner of course - as I did see him in person too. I am not bothered if I see them in person or not if it isn’t really necessary. I guess like everything a good physician and their team are good on the phone or in person and know the when it’s appropriate to use them. It must be a better use of precious NHS resources and allow more people to get help. I think the worst is when people cannot get through in the first place to speak to anyone. That’s a dereliction of duty. My surgery is very good that way you can always get through and usually in less than a few minutes. If my place can do it (it’s a very poor catchment area) then it must be possible everywhere.
Well I think there’s an insulin reader that links to an iphone so you’d think that the technology is there to make it possible. How marvellous would that be. Maybe one day.
Sugar (glucose) is a much simpler substance to identify than T4 or T3 or the complex protein, which is TSH.
Possibly a very bad place would be where numerous thyroid tests are available but of poor or uncertain quality.
We don't need such tests to be as accurate as existing tests for very high T4 or T3 or TSH - on the basis that if they sense the level is HIGH, they can advise a proper blood test. We need accuracy within reference intervals and a little bit above or below, and below RI for TSH.
Helvella do you think that one day 🤔 this can also be perfected? So the thyroid tests can be accurate? Yes accuracy is extremely important for our thyroid markers . Plus how we feel. I feel the latter is the most important. But that's just my humble opinion from my own experiences.
I definitely think accuracy is important within the reference intervals. But once you are alerted to the result being more than a trivial amount below or above, it would probably be time for a "traditional" full blood test.
I certainly hope we can get there. It hurts me every time we see members being told to defer their test until levels stabilize. Or not getting tested in 6 or so weeks after a change. The availability of daily testing at a reasonably low cost should transform what we see.
We could track every day from any change at all. And see how it goes. Differences due to changes of tablets could be readily seen. Finding levels going too high or too low should become obvious. As might the effects of other medicines.
We want it to be as simple and cheap as taking your temperature.
It uses the same technology that Apple uses in the watch. AliveCor Kardia. It was first made available for veterinary use before being approved in the US - I purchased one and used to take ECG's on my horses and dogs. And on myself.
Nice one helvella! What exactly could a watch measure with more development I wonder? Could it detect things in the blood for example by some sort of deluxe scanning gizmos?
There have been lots of ideas about dedicated devices which rely on the processing and display power of a mobile phone. If not possible within a phone, see what else can be done. Also, by being a separate dedicated device, it might be easier to justify it being prescribed or at least reclaiming VAT.
Would a full thyroid panel be feasible in theory then? That’s if I am right in assuming spectroscopy is part of how it’s determined conventionally. That would be a great thing to have on a watch!! Imagine the wonderful graphs you could generate!
No - the standard techniques seem mostly to use an antibody assay.
If you have an antibody to T4, then T4 will bind strongly to that antibody. Then use something to reveal the amount of antibody which has bound to T4. But that approach has to be done from blood.
Metabolomics is my personal hope. More or less, measure everything you can and see what items are associated with which disorders.
If someone tried really hard, we might end up seeing the results of having too little, or too much, thyroid hormone. All sorts of measurable factors might act as a proxy for real T4/T3/TSH detection.
after the wearable device detected symptoms of a thyroid condition months before being diagnosed.
Which is all very useful, but if your TSH level is 'normal' your doctor still won't diagnose and treat your thyroid condition, regardless of your heart rate. That's assuming anyone even thinks of testing for thyroid dysfunction as a possible cause of an abnormal heart rate. I know from personal experience 😢😭
Yes it’s quite a hurdle to get over I had heart pains and a lot of other symptoms I even enquired if it might be thyroid related given it was in the family, but it was all dismissed for decades. I was a wreck by the time I got any treatment and I was gaslighted into believing I was a hypochondriac for decades when I was nothing of the sort. I was lucky not to end up in a coffin. They didn’t even get as far as actually testing TSH until the end and it was suppressed one week and 110 the next - boy was I poorly by then!
I’d agree with this. Whilst Apple Watch then links th elbow heart rate to good fitness (I’m ok but no marathon runner!), it is helpful to see and helpful to be able to track the history. I could go back to my endo and then my gp and say “see?” and look at my heart rate going back over months to see a general upward trend from when I started T3.Like SlowDragon mine will still alarm at night sometimes but I guess having a low heart rate is just always going to be part of being a thyroid sufferer for me.
Yeah it is hard “evidence” - you are right. Some may be persuaded by it.
I took a daily photo for over a year which coincidentally proved I had a ptosis of the left eyelid. I played it to the consultant and he didn’t doubt it after that. NDT sorted it so it must have been something to do with lack of T3 - it wasn’t MG or if it was it went into remission and improved with NDT.
I was wondering what an elbow heart rate was for a sec no doubt there is a pulse point there somewhere 🤣🤣🤣!
I have noticed my heart rate changes when I am unwell with other things. It is picked up on my fitbit before I actually start to feel unwell. I have noticed the correlation after the event.
Wouldn’t have worked for my husband as he was told (albeit 20 years ago) that he had the heart rate of an athlete (45bpm somtimes). He had tsh of 120 when tested after 6months of being very ill!
Lucky my husband has never had heart irregularities so it would not have shown up. Unlike myself , I have atrial fibrillation and use a Kardia mobile device suggested by my cardiologist, at £99 it was a good investment.
I don’t use the subscription options. I look at the history that it stores. Its useful for knowing if I am in afib as I know then to take the meds. I would add that I only get afib rarely.
OMG - I think I’d notice. On the positive side you must have very flexible heart muscle. A trained racing Greyhound goes from c40-60 resting to 310-340 in a gallop! They get their blood volume round 4-5 times in a 30 sec race. But such huge jumps just sitting still is every bit as astounding to me. Do you know why it happens. Electrical signalling going a bit overboard?
I have been lying on a hospital bed, with an ECG attached, and watched the display going up and down and tried to convince myself I could tell the difference. But in all honesty, I'm not at all sure I could.
He had myxedema - it was so obvious looking at the photos of him at a family wedding, his face was all swollen. He couldn’t stay awake, at a family trip he fell asleep when he leaned into the boot of the car, we laughed about that after his diagnosis. I am glad that NDT is working for you.
A friend I used to do parkrun with then go over to hers for some scram said to me all you ever do is fall asleep when you’re here! She was the person who twigged it was a thyroid disorder and told me to get it looked into! It’s embarrassing looking back kipping instead of being a good guest!
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It's here at last: a comparison of T4, T4-T3 combination therapy and DTE (NDT) - fuel for using against sceptical doctors/endos
Newly diagnosed New Symptoms 
Hashimoto’s 
